Trivia: Direct trains to London then and now

alistairlees said:

Middlesbrough didn't have a direct London service in 1975 - the Tees-Tyne Exec was only introduced later.

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The MIDDLESBROUGH London service was the Cleveland Executive

The Tees Tyne Pullman was running in 1972. This became the Exec and I’m sure always went via Darlo.

I see Acklington, Ferryhill and Chathill having sleepers to KX in 1963

Off the thread there is also a Ferryhill to Bristol Sleeper in my 1963 timetable.

The Saltburn KX trains didn’t stop with DMUs. In 1959 the timetable shows the 0750 as through carriages to London and a foot note ‘Steam Train’. The return was at 1735 arriving 2311. Twice the current journey time.

RT4038 said:

Halifax had direct service by the 'South Yorkshireman' express from Bradford to Marylebone prior to 1960

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Also stopping at brighouse Huddersfield Brockholes*<NS>, Shepley & Shelly*, Denby Dale& Cumberworth, but only on request at *

The Yorkshire Pullman left Bradford 25min later and arrived 50 minutes earlier. It did cost 12/- more; (60p) in 1st. Half that in 2nd. The fare was 48/3 or 32/2 each way. (£2.43 or £1.61).

Llandudno said:

I guess service levels, quality of rolling stock, run down stations plus Travellers Fayre Station buffets were at the worst in the early 1980’s!

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Ah yes! Much of InterCity had just transitioned to modern aircon stock. Most Mk3 were new, both WCML hauled and HST fleets, and AC Mk 2 did much of the rest. Thus most mainline stock had been built in the previous 10 years, which is a sight better than can be said about today. The seats somehow had enough space to sit normally and open a book, and the designers had miraculously placed the windows so they lined up with the seats. The various remaining London diesel lines were progressively being electrified, both third rail and 25Kv. Walk-up fares such as SuperSavers were very affordable. If you wanted to know tomorrow's train times from Liverpool to London and phoned Lime Street you were answered in a couple of rings by someone who just gave the answer straight back and probably knew the times off the top of their head anyway, not someone who you have to spell "L i v e r p o o l" to.

Some "worst"!

Barrow-in-Furness and most stations around the Furness coast as far as Carnforth have lost their through trains.

According to Wikipedia, trains to/from Euston lasted until 1983 - including the sleeper (which may or may not have been literally a sleeping car at the end).

Marton said:

The MIDDLESBROUGH London service was the Cleveland Executive

The Tees Tyne Pullman was running in 1972. This became the Exec and I’m sure always went via Darlo.

I see Acklington, Ferryhill and Chathill having sleepers to KX in 1963

Off the thread there is also a Ferryhill to Bristol Sleeper in my 1963 timetable.

The Saltburn KX trains didn’t stop with DMUs. In 1959 the timetable shows the 0750 as through carriages to London and a foot note ‘Steam Train’. The return was at 1735 arriving 2311. Twice the current journey time.

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Ah right! The through Saltburn carriages had gone by winter 1962 (all diesel trains by then, bar an 04h35 from Darlington)

In 1967 I travelled on the King's Cross to Tyne Commission Quay summer Saturdays boat train, using it from Newcastle Central only. There weren't many aboard but in those days long empty trains were quite common.

In those days there were 3 boats sailing to Norway on Saturdays, Fred Olsen line to Oslo and Bergen Line to Bergen and Stavanger. DFDS (maybe then under a different name) had a sailing to Esbjerg too. How times have changed.

Today there's a much bigger daily boat to Holland and massive cruise liners come ashore at TCQ, but the rail link is long gone .

One of the biggest changes regarding the South West was the withdrawal of the Atlantic Coast Express in 1964, although there was a through service to Bude in the summer of 1965. Lymington and Swanage also had through trains, Summer Saturdays

alistairlees said:

Indeed, the Serpell Report (1982?) was much more sever in its reduction of the network than Beeching was. If it hadn't been so sever, it would probably have been actioned. But it was so severe that it was a political dead duck straight away, thank goodness. Otherwise we would have a passenger rail network like the US, and this forum probably wouldn't exist.

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Indeed, there were various options regarding closures, the most severe reducing the passenger network to around 1,800 miles. The ECML would terminate at Newcastle, the WCML would serve Glasgow and Edinburgh. No railways north of this. Wales would have no railways apart from Bristol - Cardiff. The south west, nothing beyond Exeter

What about Ayr , Irvine , Kilwinning , Johnstone and Paisley ?

Kilmarnock , Dumfries and station on the Settle line had the Thames Clyde Express. Coatbridge Central used to have the Clansman to London.

hexagon789 said:

Summer 1986: 1025 Mon-Sat; 1301 Sun
1988

Summer 1988: 1029 Mon-Sat; 1304 Sun

Sundays only Summer 1990; Winter 1991/2; Summers 1993/5.

Labert had calls each day in 1986/1988 but none after that even on Sundays, so Larbert appears to have lost direct service to London in about 1988/9.

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That's late 1980s. The Chieftain originally started at Perth and was used by commuters.

Check the timetable for early May 1984 if you have it.

There was a short-lived Stourbridge Junction/Kidderminster to Paddington and return service (via Evesham) in 1993/4.

It was to be the 21st century before these stations had through London trains again - via a roundabout route and not even into the correct terminus

delt1c said:

Coatbridge Central used to have the Clansman to London.

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Was there not a time when Inverness had a train to London via Aberdeen? This would have given the stations between Inverness and Aberdeen a direct London service.

route101 said:

What about Ayr , Irvine , Kilwinning , Johnstone and Paisley ?

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The Royal Scot used to depart Ayr at 0745, run in the path of a normal Ayr-Glasgow then run down to London Euston.

The stock worked down to Ayr as a morning commuter service.

hexagon789 said:

The Royal Scot used to depart Ayr at 0745, run in the path of a normal Ayr-Glasgow then run down to London Euston.

The stock worked down to Ayr as a morning commuter service.

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Yes - caught that once from Paisley Gilmour Street to Preston

hexagon789 said:

The HSTs out of Queen Street simply ran in the slot of the normal services so served Polmont or Linlithgow in addition to Falkirk High and Haymarket.

As for the Chieftain, none of the timetables I possess has it calling at Polmont or Linlithgow, but it did used to serve Dunblane and Larbert in some years.

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That would explain the HST stopping mark on the Glasgow-bound side at Linlithgow!

Taunton said:

Ah yes! Much of InterCity had just transitioned to modern aircon stock. Most Mk3 were new, both WCML hauled and HST fleets, and AC Mk 2 did much of the rest. Thus most mainline stock had been built in the previous 10 years, which is a sight better than can be said about today. The seats somehow had enough space to sit normally and open a book, and the designers had miraculously placed the windows so they lined up with the seats. The various remaining London diesel lines were progressively being electrified, both third rail and 25Kv. Walk-up fares such as SuperSavers were very affordable. If you wanted to know tomorrow's train times from Liverpool to London and phoned Lime Street you were answered in a couple of rings by someone who just gave the answer straight back and probably knew the times off the top of their head anyway, not someone who you have to spell "L i v e r p o o l" to.

Some "worst"!

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Oh, good grief.

Away from IC services, you'd get litter-strewn Mark 1s or first-gen DMUs that had been allowed to deteriorate into shocking condition. Frequencies were far lower. Delays were common. If anything went wrong, you'd be abandoned by rude, surly staff who didn't care. Stations were often falling to pieces, vandalized and scary places to spend any time. Catering was awful. Investment was being cut and many lines were under threat. Try going anywhere on a Sunday morning.

Early 80s BR was the absolute pits. Bits of it were good, but most of it was absolutely dreadful.

Having just looked through the thread I thought of three destinations that had through services to/from London in the 1980s that I don’t think have been mentioned yet:
Pwllheli
Falmouth
Barnstaple.

Llandudno said:

I guess service levels, quality of rolling stock, run down stations plus Travellers Fayre Station buffets were at the worst in the early 1980’s!

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Not sure about 1980, as it was before I started using trains... but (as mentioned on another thread) the 1985 timetable on the South Western and South Central divisions of the Southern was a deterioration compared to a couple of years earlier. And the worst period under BR on the Waterloo lines from the POV of frequency, certainly, was around 1991-93. And as for the current era, don't want to get into that, but let's say there are both advantages and disadvantages compared to the 1980s...

That said, the period from about 1987-90 showed significant improvements in train frequency and electrification schemes, so that period, at least, was a 'good' one overall.

Back on topic though... the Guildford-Ascot line stations (Camberley being the prime example) had a direct off-peak service to Waterloo from around 1988-91 but haven't had one for many years since. I remember seeing an old 1972 timetable once and in that year, those stations had what can only be described as a superb service compared to what has prevailed since... two trains an hour (one splitting from a Reading train, one standalone) and limited-stop between Staines and Waterloo so presumably pretty fast overall. The pattern was xx00 Reading/Guildford (all stations Staines to Ascot), xx30 Guildford only (all stations beyond Staines) and xx40 Reading express (possibly fast Staines to Ascot, not 100% sure on that, then all stations). By 1982, though, the through trains had been lost except in the peaks. There were also some counter-peak through trains in the timetable at that time, but they were announced as only going to Ascot at Guildford, presumably to avoid people mistakenly going the (very) long way round to London.

In the same sort of area, ISTR Chertsey had a 'direct', principal stops only between Waterloo and Twickenham, then all stations (as opposed to all stations via Hounslow, so one could say that unlike now it had a 'usable' direct service) in the 1972 timetable, formed by detaching a portion off the Windsor service at Staines.

route:oxford said:

That's late 1980s. The Chieftain originally started at Perth and was used by commuters.

Check the timetable for early May 1984 if you have it.

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I have 1980/1 then nothing until 1988 I'm afraid. For 1986 I have only a few excerpts.

Fleetwood Boy said:

Yes - caught that once from Paisley Gilmour Street to Preston

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It seems to have been given a few mins extra presumably because of station dwells than the normal services from Ayr, but to London it was pretty quick for the time.

Journeyman said:

That would explain the HST stopping mark on the Glasgow-bound side at Linlithgow!

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Indeed

They also used to have HST speed boards on the line but these were removed in 1992.