Min. connection time between St. Pancras and Kings X

_toommm_ · 27 Oct 2018

Simple question really, what is the minimum connection time between the two stations? I arrive on Thameslink at 1725 tomorrow and hope to catch an 1803 departure from KGX if that sticks to the rules.

EDIT: Looking on BRTimes, it seems there's a one minute connection allowance, plus the min. connection of 15 mins at each station, so I believe it's 31 minutes total I need to leave?

Thanks!

RailUK Forums

Timrud · 28 Oct 2018

You can easily do it in 10 mins

yorkie · 28 Oct 2018

Yes 31 minutes is the official minimum Interchange time.

hooverboy · 28 Oct 2018

realistically an interchange can be done in 10 minutes from the moment the doors are released.
lets say
i)3 minutes from door to STP ticket barrier,
ii)5 minutes up/down escalators and through respective concourses
iii)2 minutes from kgx barrier to train.

edit i) and ii) reversed in case of STP platform A/B arrival

DarloRich · 28 Oct 2018

I have done train to train in 5 minutes. No running but a brisk walk. I was carrying only a small back pack

cactustwirly · 28 Oct 2018

It really depends on the time of day.
If you're coming off an EMT train it can get quite busy, it'll probably take 5 minutes to get to the escalators, since there might be a queue for the ticket barriers & escalators

Failed Unit · 28 Oct 2018

yorkie said:
Yes 31 minutes is the official minimum Interchange time.

31 Minutes? odd that is isn't a round number but not disagreeing with you.

You do get some wierd options in journey planners now, for example WGC - St Albans, you can often get

WGC - Finsbury Park
Finsbury Park - Farringdon
Farringdon - St Albans

Never understood the doubling back as I would have expected even the journey planners would expect you to be able to cross the bridge. But you will never get the King Cross - St Pancras cross over any more.

yorkie · 28 Oct 2018

Failed Unit said:
31 Minutes? odd that is isn't a round number but not disagreeing with you.

That's because it's 15mins interchange at both STP and KGX, plus 1 minute between the two.

I guess they could have specified zero minutes between the two. Or two minutes to make it an even number, but that would break some connections.

Failed Unit said:
WGC - Finsbury Park
Finsbury Park - Farringdon
Farringdon - St Albans

Never understood the doubling back as I would have expected even the journey planners would expect you to be able to cross the bridge.

It may be because the Interchange time at Farringdon is only 3 minutes.

LAX54 · 28 Oct 2018

Surely the connection times should take into account those with restricted mobility ?

Failed Unit · 28 Oct 2018

yorkie said:
That's because it's 15mins interchange at both STP and KGX, plus 1 minute between the two.

I guess they could have specified zero minutes between the two. Or two minutes to make it an even number, but that would break some connections.

It may be because the Interchange time at Farringdon is only 3 minutes.

Fair enough. Ironically walking between the 2 for me is the risky part - as you can't control the traffic (although I guess many will use the TfL subway)

But the fact it is 15 minutes will defiantely explain why the double back at Farringdon is prefered in the journey planners.

I suspect the same situation when changing between Thameslink trains, I tend to go for Blackfrairs (Northbound) / Farringdon (Southbound) as it is nicer enviroment.

Just to address "Swills" point - they tend to make the minumum connection time for people with normal mobility and double it for restricted. In reality I can do all KX - St Pancras connections in 15 mins, but I know where I am going, I am sure a regular traveller would not be comfortable with 15.

jsmith300 · 12 Aug 2019

Has anyone else noticed that the LNER website is currently selling advance tickets with connections between King's Cross and St Pancras at much less than 31 minutes.
I can find journeys where the connection allowed is just 21 minutes.

yorkie · 12 Aug 2019

jsmith300 said:
Has anyone else noticed that the LNER website is currently selling advance tickets with connections between King's Cross and St Pancras at much less than 31 minutes.
I can find journeys where the connection allowed is just 21 minutes.

Hmm, yes I see that too.

They're actually offering a sensible connection time, but this isn't allowed and the extremely long official minimum connection times must be adhered to.

BluePenguin · 12 Aug 2019

yorkie said:
Hmm, yes I see that too.

They're actually offering a sensible connection time, but this isn't allowed and the extremely long official minimum connection times must be adhered to.

I am curious, what would happen if they were not adhered to. If you bought a ticket with this itinerary and missed the train because your connection was late would you be allowed onto the next service as normal?

Of course if you were simply too slow or got lost I know you would not be.

30907 · 12 Aug 2019

yorkie said:
Hmm, yes I see that too.

They're actually offering a sensible connection time, but this isn't allowed and the extremely long official minimum connection times must be adhered to.

Do they offer those where the connection is onto the mandatory train (eg the reverse to your example?)

jsmith300 · 12 Aug 2019

30907 said:
Do they offer those where the connection is onto the mandatory train (eg the reverse to your example?)

There are certainly instances where mandatory connections further down route are built from timings on these connections - e.g. onwards from East Croydon

BluePenguin · 12 Aug 2019

St Pancras to Kings Cross is doable in 5 minutes door to door. You have to be at the front of the train to be first through the barriers so it is important to avoid the hoards getting off the train and have your ticket ready.

It is perfect if coming off a Southeastern service as the platforms are in the right part of the station by the exit doors. Last year when Euston was closed I got off at xx:54 and made it to Kings Cross in 3 minutes for the xx:05 Leeds service. I did leave my suitcase on the train though...

Albeit I was on a flexible ticket rather than an advance so did not have the extra stress and anxiety of missing the train. Still, the adrenaline as you run for that train and the satisfaction you get when you make it cannot be topped.

yorkie · 12 Aug 2019

30907 said:
Do they offer those where the connection is onto the mandatory train (eg the reverse to your example?)

I've not checked but you could search for a journey in the reverse direction; I'd be shocked if they had differential connection times in different directions though!

pt_mad · 12 Aug 2019

You should see the connection time between Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen Street. I've walked it in six minutes.

robbeech · 12 Aug 2019

BluePenguin said:
I am curious, what would happen if they were not adhered to. If you bought a ticket with this itinerary and missed the train because your connection was late would you be allowed onto the next service as normal?

You should be allowed on the next service. There may be some fuss from a few staff who aren’t familiar with the rules but providing you have your itinerary then there’s not much they can do.

yorkie · 12 Aug 2019

It would be an internal rail industry matter; the itinerary is evidence of a contract.

A customer who uses an accredited booking site to book a journey is not required to have any knowledge of the inner workings of such systems.

robbeech · 12 Aug 2019

yorkie said:
A customer who uses an accredited booking site to book a journey is not required to have any knowledge of the inner workings of such systems.

This is even more crucial when you look at transfers such as this.
It may be obvious if a booking engine gave an itinerary which fouled a minimum connection at a single station, for example if one gavpe you only 4 minutes at Leeds you would stand a good chance of missing the train even with a right time arrival. This would certainly be an obvious error to most passengers, however most of us would consider 21 minutes between King’s Cross and St Pancras more than reasonable so you may not suspect anything was amiss here. This is all well and good until disruption causes you to miss that invalid connection. Less knowledgeable passengers may end up buying a new ticket at the request of a less knowledgable (or revenue focussed) member of railway staff. Of course, there would be no incentive for the toc to fix this problem.

A0wen · 13 Aug 2019

_toommm_ said:
Simple question really, what is the minimum connection time between the two stations? I arrive on Thameslink at 1725 tomorrow and hope to catch an 1803 departure from KGX if that sticks to the rules.

EDIT: Looking on BRTimes, it seems there's a one minute connection allowance, plus the min. connection of 15 mins at each station, so I believe it's 31 minutes total I need to leave?

Thanks!

10 mins is plenty to get from Thameslink to the Kings X mainline platforms.

PeterC · 13 Aug 2019

I would always include a margin for late running if planning a journey from the timetable and this sounds about right. Allows for the incoming train to be 5 minutes late, a bit of a crush getting off the platforms, not sure of the way between the two stations, loo stop and still make your outbound train.

Min. connection time between St. Pancras and Kings X

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