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GWR Performance - deteriorating?

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GoneSouth

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Yesterday (11th August) I noticed there were a few cancellations on the Cheltenham to Paddington service so thought I’d go check to see how bad the situation actually was. Looks like there were ZERO through journeys yesterday between Cheltenham/Gloucester and London (and reverse). All cancelled (a couple replaced with a shuttle to Swindon) with crew shortages cited as the reason for all the cancellations.

There were a couple more this morning. It does raise questions about the new timetable from December. If they can’t deliver the current 2 hourly service, why promise doubling of off peak services from December?

I don’t think this is isolated, the Cheltenham service always seem to be the first for the chop, I’ve noticed the new services they added in this timetable seem to suffer when I’ve been travelling to/from Padd.

Any ideas what’s going on here? Is this isolated or right across GWR?
 
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RailUK Forums

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I can't comment on the reasons, but there's usually a good alternative via Bristol Parkway (and it's often quicker from Cheltenham than the direct train) so cancelling these ones tends not to be too disruptive as long as tickets are accepted.

I've had this one cancelled on me at the last minute due to driver shortages. Always a pain even if you end up in London a bit earlier than planned thanks to the XC/GWR combo.
 

northernbelle

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GWR Performance data Since Jan 2019:

Month - On Time / Late / V.Late or Cancelled (%)
JAN - 91.3 / 6.5 / 2.2
FEB - 90.3 / 7.3 / 2.5
MAR - 91.3 / 6.6 / 2.1
APR - 92.3 / 5.8 / 1.8
MAY - 92.2 / 5.6 / 2.2
JUN - 90.4 / 6.9 / 2.7
JUL - 87.3 / 9.4 / 3.4
AUG* - 89.4 / 7.1 / 3.6
*To 12 Aug

Performance dropped during July but is showing signs of picking back up during August. I believe main reasons for this include heat related speed restrictions, IET performance in hot weather

Compared to August 2018, which was 83.7/12.8/3.6, things are considerably better than they were this time last year!

This is quite a good tool for comparing the performance of various TOCs: http://trains.im/ppmhistorical/monthly
 

GoneSouth

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I can't comment on the reasons, but there's usually a good alternative via Bristol Parkway (and it's often quicker from Cheltenham than the direct train) so cancelling these ones tends not to be too disruptive as long as tickets are accepted.

I've had this one cancelled on me at the last minute due to driver shortages. Always a pain even if you end up in London a bit earlier than planned thanks to the XC/GWR combo.
I thought all tickets from GCR/CNM stated route as via the Stroud line or is that just the advance tickets I’ve used, can’t remember now?

I’m guessing they won’t let you go via Parkway if you have the Stroud route stated in your ticket, even if the direct has been canned and there’s an hour to wait? How would you argue that with XC anyway? Still, an hour delay is a free journey :E
 

WelshBluebird

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There have been issues with Sunday performance for a while now (~2 years!), mainly related to staff availability.
It had got significantly better this year, so hope this isn't a sign it is going to get worse again!
 

Hadders

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If using a flexible return ticket routed 'via Stroud' a change of route excess in one direction is half the difference between the fare paid and the fare to travel via Bristol Parkway (probably 'Any Permitted). There is no penalty for purchasing this on board.
 

Weekender

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GWR have no interest in Cheltenham and Gloucester services whatsoever. Unfortunately due to geographical reasons we are stuck with each other.
The reasons (excuses) put forward last year. - driver training, football World Cup and good summer weather, do not apply this year.
As Gone South says adding extra services from December will only increase the number of cancellations. I am sure i’m not the only passenger to have given up Sunday GWR travel completely.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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GWR have no interest in Cheltenham and Gloucester services whatsoever. Unfortunately due to geographical reasons we are stuck with each other.
The reasons (excuses) put forward last year. - driver training, football World Cup and good summer weather, do not apply this year.
As Gone South says adding extra services from December will only increase the number of cancellations. I am sure i’m not the only passenger to have given up Sunday GWR travel completely.

I feel your pain but this is certainly not factual. From December GWR are doubling your line’s service to London and providing intercity quality rolling stock on every daytime service rather than the mix of DMU and Intercity stock currently provided. Last year’s very widely reported crew shortages were caused by late delivery of the IET stock from the builder, causing the established traincrew training plan to go out of the window and the whole programme to be heavily compressed, requiring rest-day working to cover weekday turns and therefore robbing the weekends of their rostering margins.

The reason Swindon-Cheltenham seems to get more heavily affected is that it is an out and back turn from London and causes the least overall disruption if services are lost, compared to, say, a Plymouth or a Swansea service.
 

Weekender

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Out of interest what is causing the crew shortages this year?
Even last summer GWR did not manage the 100% cancellations of through services from Paddington to Cheltenham that they achieved last Sunday.
The Bristol to Worcester service is better than last year but still not reliable enough to risk a Sunday day out.
 

irish_rail

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Out of interest what is causing the crew shortages this year?
Even last summer GWR did not manage the 100% cancellations of through services from Paddington to Cheltenham that they achieved last Sunday.
The Bristol to Worcester service is better than last year but still not reliable enough to risk a Sunday day out.
Padd drivers sadly cannot afford to live in London and as Sundays are voluntary they choose not to work them due to the difficulty in getting into London for work on a Sunday.
 

Weekender

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I feel your pain but this is certainly not factual. From December GWR are doubling your line’s service to London and providing intercity quality rolling stock on every daytime service rather than the mix of DMU and Intercity stock currently provided. Last year’s very widely reported crew shortages were caused by late delivery of the IET stock from the builder, causing the established traincrew training plan to go out of the window and the whole programme to be heavily compressed, requiring rest-day working to cover weekday turns and therefore robbing the weekends of their rostering margins.

The reason Swindon-Cheltenham seems to get more heavily affected is that it is an out and back turn from London and causes the least overall disruption if services are lost, compared to, say, a Plymouth or a Swansea service.
The Cheltenham to Paddington service has been completely wiped out again today. Instead of announcing a doubling of the service in December would it not be better to have an honest Sunday timetable of 3 trains per day, which would only then need cancellations about once a month?
 

CharlesR

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Padd drivers sadly cannot afford to live in London and as Sundays are voluntary they choose not to work them due to the difficulty in getting into London for work on a Sunday.

I’ve spoken to many a Paddington TM and a few Drivers, I can assure you that many live in London. Also some on twitter whom are from London. They aren’t exactly on the lowest pay in the world and when you sign up to the job you know what your in for - if GWR says you need to be within one hour then clearly they think that’s doable.

GWR have no interest in Cheltenham and Gloucester services whatsoever. Unfortunately due to geographical reasons we are stuck with each other.
The reasons (excuses) put forward last year. - driver training, football World Cup and good summer weather, do not apply this year.
As Gone South says adding extra services from December will only increase the number of cancellations. I am sure i’m not the only passenger to have given up Sunday GWR travel completely.

As one who’s local station is Gloucester, it isn’t exactly true. If the 17:00 from Paddington from to Plymouth was heading to the depot after Plymouth, it would therefore make sense to run that service. GWR seem not to cancel the trains going to Stoke Gifford after their arrival at Cheltenham in the evening.
 

GoneSouth

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The Cheltenham to Paddington service has been completely wiped out again today. Instead of announcing a doubling of the service in December would it not be better to have an honest Sunday timetable of 3 trains per day, which would only then need cancellations about once a month?
Beat me to it! Noticed this earlier and was not surprised as I think it’s the 3rd time since July this has happened (or should I say the 3rd time I’ve checked and seen it happen, could be more).

Might be time to start keeping accurate info on this and get Alex Chalk and Richard Graham involved in some high profile shaming of GWR (MPs for Cheltenham and Gloucester for those not from the area).
 

PHILIPE

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The cancellation of Cheltenham services is the most operational practicable route in so much as the workings are worked by Paddington crews out and back thus making them self contained. If other routes were to suffer cancellations the impact would be spread over and felt over most of the Network and result in an overall worse situation.
 

Weekender

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The cancellation of Cheltenham services is the most operational practicable route in so much as the workings are worked by Paddington crews out and back thus making them self contained. If other routes were to suffer cancellations the impact would be spread over and felt over most of the Network and result in an overall worse situation.
So why timetable them when GWR know that on most Sunday’s they don’t have the crews to operate them. I don’t believe for one moment that this will change before the end of the franchise.
 

PHILIPE

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So why timetable them when GWR know that on most Sunday’s they don’t have the crews to operate them. I don’t believe for one moment that this will change before the end of the franchise.

They have to timetable them if they are in the franchise specification.
 

FGW_DID

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So why timetable them when GWR know that on most Sunday’s they don’t have the crews to operate them. I don’t believe for one moment that this will change before the end of the franchise.

There will be crews to operate them but if they don't have to work their Sunday and don't want to then it doesn't really matter how many crew you have! It's been done to death on the forums and will just go round and round in circles until Sunday working is achieved.
What cost are you willing to pay, because it certainly wont be cheap!!!
 

Weekender

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Surely it’s not enough just to timetable them when they know most Sunday’s they will be cancelled.
I can’t understand how GWR and Northern get away with it time after time.
 

CharlesR

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Might be time to start keeping accurate info on this and get Alex Chalk and Richard Graham involved in some high profile shaming of GWR (MPs for Cheltenham and Gloucester for those not from the area).

Richard Graham seems to think there is going to be an hourly service to Swindon as well as an hourly service to London from this December. He has also been trying for a decade to increase services between Gloucester and Bristol and has still not delivered..
 

Mag_seven

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I can’t understand how GWR and Northern get away with it time after time.

It's almost as if its a cheaper option just to kick the can down the road re Sunday working and just take the hit in delay/repay payments and sourcing rail replacement buses. It's a shambles where the fare paying customer comes last - wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry, but this is the railway bubble.
 

GoneSouth

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Yes, a case of the lesser of two evils I'm afraid.
They have to timetable them if they are in the franchise specification.
And there’s the issue. The TOC finds it cheaper and more convenient to just disregard its obligations. If the services are in the franchise agreement the TOC should run them. Repeated failure to do so should be treated as a breach of contract with appropriate financial consequences amounting to significantly more than a few delay repay claims for the withdrawn services.

There’s only one thing to focus the mind of these companies, hit them in the balance sheet. Fine them a significant amount for every cancelled service.

Come on DfT, grow a pair!
 

GoneSouth

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£5.50 for a standard Sunday return. That's how much more it costs to go via Bristol.
If they cancel the service and the only reasonable alternative is via Bristol surely they can’t make you pay the excess, even if it is on a XC service? This scenario probably does happen, particularly on Sundays when 1 cancellation could mean a couple of hours wait.
 

CptCharlee

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GWR do seem to be a shell of therw former selves. It feels like a bare bones attitude latley. I dont think the 800s have been reliable enough. Once the niggles are sorted hopefully it improves.
 

Weekender

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There will be crews to operate them but if they don't have to work their Sunday and don't want to then it doesn't really matter how many crew you have! It's been done to death on the forums and will just go round and round in circles until Sunday working is achieved.
What cost are you willing to pay, because it certainly wont be cheap!!!
Most businesses in the 21st century employ staff on Sunday or weekend only contracts, why should the railways be stuck in the dark ages.
 

irish_rail

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For who, though?

Not for the passengers, that's for sure.
Better to use what crews you do have on the routes like pad to Exeter, as there is no alternative for passengers , whereas on Cheltenham, people can change at parkway or Swindon
 

CharlesR

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Better to use what crews you do have on the routes like pad to Exeter, as there is no alternative for passengers , whereas on Cheltenham, people can change at parkway or Swindon

Forgetting about Kemble, Stonehouse and Stroud...

It’s not the end of the world for Cheltenham passengers as the Paddington services align quite well with the CrossCountry services however in some cases for Gloucester you could’ve just missed one meaning a 55 minute wait or a change at Cheltenham. That isn’t the main issue though.

Ultimately, it seems to me that it is most operationally convenient to cancel the Cheltenham services, as they are generally crewed by Reading and Paddington.
 

tiptoptaff

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Most businesses in the 21st century employ staff on Sunday or weekend only contracts, why should the railways be stuck in the dark ages.
Because we're still collectively bargained, so all of the crews at a particular depot are on the same Ts and Cs. Now of course, there are differences between GWR and HSS, but what I mean is that all Paddington HSS drivers have the same conditions, all Exeter GWR drivers have the same, all Par conductors etc etc...
So, new staff are brought in on the same as what everyone else is on. Same conditions, same pay, for the same job.

Why should we surrender our position, fought for by our union (whom, incidentally, are in principle in support of Sunday in the week) just because "any other industry" have rolled over and taken what's been dished to them? Perhaps you and your former colleagues should have stood up for your jobs and conditions rather than being bitter that the railway did.
 
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