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ClydeCoaster

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On the subject of Ireland, I see Bus Eireann have started taking Volvo B8RLE's with Sunsundegui SB5 bodies for interurban work. At 12.2m long with 49 seats (and a dedicated wheelchair space) they certainly seem more adaptable than Plaxton's Panther LE, they're lower in height too. I'm surprised there isn't more of a demand for Low Entry interurban coaches in the UK, I'm guessing Plaxton don't offer a 2 axle variant given Lothian Country went for the B8R instead?
 

Jordan Adam

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On the subject of Ireland, I see Bus Eireann have started taking Volvo B8RLE's with Sunsundegui SB5 bodies for interurban work. At 12.2m long with 49 seats (and a dedicated wheelchair space) they certainly seem more adaptable than Plaxton's Panther LE, they're lower in height too. I'm surprised there isn't more of a demand for Low Entry interurban coaches in the UK, I'm guessing Plaxton don't offer a 2 axle variant given Lothian Country went for the B8R instead?

A 2 axle Panther LE would have appalling capacity. (probably less than 40 passengers)
 

Jordan Adam

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It puzzles me why Plaxton chose to base the LE on the Panther and not the Leopard.

Even then the capacity would still be rather poor. Imo the Wright Commuter was a far better concept, despite not being the most appealing externally the Stagecoach examples were liked by both drivers and passengers. Surely a similar product on the B8RLE chassis could have potential.
 

F Great Eastern

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Another customer Wrightbus have lost ?? These could be short term as they look to be dealer stock but MMC200s are pretty much obsolete in Ireland until now/

Not my pic.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/vwl145/48519277627/in/feed

Those vehicles have been acquired on the open market by Go-Ahead for a single brand new route which they have won the tender for in which they were allowed to supply their own vehicles that meet a certain spec. This is very much an exception to the rule.

This is very much NOT a sign of WrightBus losing a customer as 99% of vehicles used on publicly funded bus services in Ireland are through tenders by the regulator and will continue to be so.

The reason that there are very few Alexander Dennis integrals in Ireland is there is no proper dealer support network in Ireland whereas Volvo have a very comprehensive one, which is why Volvo are by far the biggest chassis supplier when it comes to the bus and coach market.
 

F Great Eastern

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Better internal layout than the Panther LE and they appear to seat 45 which is almost as much! Although the ceiling panels and luggage racks are awful.

The odd bodywork and interior is because the SB3 body was originally designed for the B8R high floor chassis and they've converted it onto the B8RLE low floor bus chassis, rather than designed the body with the chassis in mind.

There's a number of compromises that have been made to do this, since no doubt it was deemed expensive to change too much of the bodywork or build a body dedicated for the B8RLE, so they just focused on making one as easily as possible with less focus on aesthetics to win a tender. Plaxton certainly paid more attention to the aesthetics.
 

ClydeCoaster

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It’s certainly better proportioned externally than the Panther LE, which seems awkward and ungainly with its huge deep windows in the front section. The luggage rack positioning is appalling though, and the interior panelling is very basic, which is a shame for such a promising looking vehicle on the outside. Are the luggage racks absolutely necessary?? If it was a bit more customisable on the inside it would be a more appealing option.

I know that Wright pitched a modified Eclipse 3 for this tender. Does anyone know the batch size? Go Ahead are taking 24 but don’t know how many Bus Eireann have coming.
 

F Great Eastern

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It’s certainly better proportioned externally than the Panther LE, which seems awkward and ungainly with its huge deep windows in the front section. The luggage rack positioning is appalling though, and the interior panelling is very basic, which is a shame for such a promising looking vehicle on the outside. Are the luggage racks absolutely necessary?? If it was a bit more customisable on the inside it would be a more appealing option.

As someone on that link said, it's literally a coach body hacked onto a bus chassis, so I'm not sure what you are really expecting. They probably hacked it onto there as cheaply as possible to win a tender so things like luggage racks being in line with the windows rather than above them probably wasn't a concern.

Unfortunately as has been seen in Ireland with the VDL single deckers and double deckers as well, the drawback of vehicles being procured by public companies and bodies is that you always get someone who is pricing and designing something to win a tender that ticks all the boxes and if it isn't a box to tick then they're not too bothered about it.
 

awsnews

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As someone on that link said, it's literally a coach body hacked onto a bus chassis, so I'm not sure what you are really expecting. They probably hacked it onto there as cheaply as possible to win a tender so things like luggage racks being in line with the windows rather than above them probably wasn't a concern.

Unfortunately as has been seen in Ireland with the VDL single deckers and double deckers as well, the drawback of vehicles being procured by public companies and bodies is that you always get someone who is pricing and designing something to win a tender that ticks all the boxes and if it isn't a box to tick then they're not too bothered about it.
This isn't a new approach from Sunsundegui, they had a similar version of the previous generation Astral design as well. Alsa have a few of the SB3 variants already, including 3 axle versions, no idea what kind of interiors they have. Irizar offer a version of the i4 for this kind of application as well.
 

ClydeCoaster

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As someone on that link said, it's literally a coach body hacked onto a bus chassis, so I'm not sure what you are really expecting. They probably hacked it onto there as cheaply as possible to win a tender so things like luggage racks being in line with the windows rather than above them probably wasn't a concern.

Unfortunately as has been seen in Ireland with the VDL single deckers and double deckers as well, the drawback of vehicles being procured by public companies and bodies is that you always get someone who is pricing and designing something to win a tender that ticks all the boxes and if it isn't a box to tick then they're not too bothered about it.
On a much smaller scale SPT selected the appalling Wright StreetLite for Stagecoach to use on their tendered services on the Isle of Arran. Stagecoach had been operating Alexander PS B10Ms with 49 dual purpose seats, although they were being forced out by Accessibility requirements they were perfect for the very hilly, very rural and, during the summer, very tourist heavy routes on the island. Within a week of the StreetLites entering service there was howls of protest as they could barely get up the hills empty never mind packed with tourists, and hadn’t been spec’d with any luggage space at all... But you’re right, they were cheap. And feel it.
 

cnjb8

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On the subject of Ireland, I see Bus Eireann have started taking Volvo B8RLE's with Sunsundegui SB5 bodies for interurban work. At 12.2m long with 49 seats (and a dedicated wheelchair space) they certainly seem more adaptable than Plaxton's Panther LE, they're lower in height too. I'm surprised there isn't more of a demand for Low Entry interurban coaches in the UK, I'm guessing Plaxton don't offer a 2 axle variant given Lothian Country went for the B8R instead?
If I remember from the Lothian thread, Plaxton were willing to make a 2 axle LE.
 

cnjb8

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I know that Wright pitched a modified Eclipse 3 for this tender. Does anyone know the batch size? Go Ahead are taking 24 but don’t know how many Bus Eireann have coming.
Do you mean a Wright Commuter style Wright Eclipse 3 for GoAhead Ireland and Bus Eireann?

What's the deal with those Sprinter minivans in Kent by Arriva, look to small to work services I can only presume used to be worked by Solo/MPDs?
 

ClydeCoaster

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Do you mean a Wright Commuter style Wright Eclipse 3 for GoAhead Ireland and Bus Eireann?
Basically an updated Commuter, yes.

Answering my own question but Bus Eireann are taking 40 and Go Ahead Ireland 24 apparently. Decent batch size.
 

F Great Eastern

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Basically an updated Commuter, yes.

Answering my own question but Bus Eireann are taking 40 and Go Ahead Ireland 24 apparently. Decent batch size.

The tender was put out by the National Transport Authority who the vehicles belong to - they allocate them to publicly funded bus and coach services as they see fit, so the numbers could change.
 

Swanny200

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Do you mean a Wright Commuter style Wright Eclipse 3 for GoAhead Ireland and Bus Eireann?

What's the deal with those Sprinter minivans in Kent by Arriva, look to small to work services I can only presume used to be worked by Solo/MPDs?

From someone that I know over in N.I the reason why Go Ahead went over to ADL and Ulsterbus/Bus Eireann are looking at ADL for their single deckers is down to the fact that Wright are more than happy to build Gemini's for anyone at standard price as a lot of the parts are interchangeable with the Streetdeck, however, whenever an operator has Single Deck needs and wants a batch of Eclipses, they immediately get told they can have Streetlites instead. When that company insists on Eclipses, Wrightbus up the price by quite a bit so the operator then has the choice between staying loyal to Wrightbus and going for the inferior Streetlite or going elsewhere.
 

F Great Eastern

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From someone that I know over in N.I the reason why Go Ahead went over to ADL and Ulsterbus/Bus Eireann are looking at ADL for their single deckers is down to the fact that Wright are more than happy to build Gemini's for anyone at standard price as a lot of the parts are interchangeable with the Streetdeck, however, whenever an operator has Single Deck needs and wants a batch of Eclipses, they immediately get told they can have Streetlites instead. When that company insists on Eclipses, Wrightbus up the price by quite a bit so the operator then has the choice between staying loyal to Wrightbus and going for the inferior Streetlite or going elsewhere.

In Ireland public bodies and agencies cannot approach manufacturers and ask them to build them something, they are required to undergo a tender process which manufacturers can then put in bids for and the winning tender gets the contract.

These tenders for publicly funded bus services,, are not run by the operator, rather they are run by the National Transport Authority who owns the vehicles and allocates them to operators who are contracted to run services on it's behalf.

What you say about Wright not wanting to build Eclipses and instead offer the Streetlite is very true when it comes to selling on the open market, but only approx 1% of city bus vehicles are bought on the open market in Ireland as everything else comes through a tender.

For tenders, it's normally the chassis builder who puts the bid forward who subcontract the body side of things to the likes of Wright. For integral vehicles the integral manufacturer will put in a full bid. Most of these tenders require a certain level of support network and maintenance and spares contracts, which is where ADL fall down in Ireland.
 
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Swanny200

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I stand corrected then, he is usually pretty much spot on which was why I put it here. I would have thought that ADL would have had some kind of decent support network with both bus companies still using Enviro/ALX products albeit in some cases being phased out and replaced by Wrightbus products
 

F Great Eastern

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I stand corrected then, he is usually pretty much spot on which was why I put it here. I would have thought that ADL would have had some kind of decent support network with both bus companies still using Enviro/ALX products albeit in some cases being phased out and replaced by Wrightbus products

All of the ADL products were 2008 or earlier before maintenance and spares contracts were as prevalent as they are now. These days public bodies tend to want the whole package. There's a Volvo dealer right next to Dublin Airport which is constantly full of First, Go-Ahead, Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus vehicles that was built.

Wright integrals are supported by Wright's directly in Ballymena but they have also the backing of the Mercedes-Benz dealer network in Ireland as well for the engine side of things and a few other bits and pieces, all of the Streetlites have Mercedes Dealer registration plate surrounds.

That being said if ADL was serious about getting big orders in Ireland, there's nothing to stop them perhaps putting in a competitive bid and taking a one off hit from their own pocket to set such network up. The trouble is if they include the costs of building that network from scratch in the bid costs rather than bearing them itself, then that's likely to make their bid uncompetitive.
 

Mikey C

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Weird that ADL don't have a support network in Ireland considering that they have been successful selling E500s around the world, so presumably must have support networks in these countries
 

37114

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I don't see that sitting well with ADL.

Maybe NFI buying ADL didn't sit well with BYD and hence they are looking to ensure they have options to build on their strong start in the Electric market if ADL go a different route. I recall that the Electric E500 press release uses a different partner.
 

Goldfish62

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Maybe NFI buying ADL didn't sit well with BYD and hence they are looking to ensure they have options to build on their strong start in the Electric market if ADL go a different route. I recall that the Electric E500 press release uses a different partner.
I think that electric buses are going to be critical to manufacturers' future prospects. Wrightbus don't seem to have a credible electric offer so getting BYD on board from ADL would be a huge coup.
 

Robertj21a

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There was an article somewhere suggesting that it's actually a different Chinese company interested in Wrights.
 

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