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End of the Hamburg - Copenhagen Train Ferry

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Shinkansenfan

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I've had a look at the Deutsche Bahn planner and compared a journey in October with one a couple of months ago, and it looks like the train will indeed be taking the new route.

AlexNL, thanks for the quick reply!

I didn't have a prior recent timetable to compare to, so could not do this for myself.

What is it about the comparison that indicates the new route? Shorter travel time, different calling stations? Absence of intermediate stations?
 
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AlbertBeale

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AlexNL, thanks for the quick reply!

I didn't have a prior recent timetable to compare to, so could not do this for myself.

What is it about the comparison that indicates the new route? Shorter travel time, different calling stations? Absence of intermediate stations?

Hi - I'm booked on the direct Copenhagen-Hamburg train, via the ferry, in November. But the schedule I've looked up, relating to my journey, does include 2 stops between Copenhagen and Ringsted - Ny Elleberg (which is, admittedly, more or less in Copenhagen) and Koege Nord (which is about halfway). So is this the new line or not? The overall journey time seems much the same as it's been in recent years. I'm on the EC34, departing at 11.35am.

Incidentally, I've taken advice here and booked seats for that. But when I tried to also book seats for the Hamburg-Copenhagen journey a few days previously, going the other way round [I've never traveled the Fyn-Zealand section since the train ferry was replaced by a bridge and tunnel 20 years ago, hence using both routes], the DB system (via Loco2) threw a wobbly. Although reservations are possible on the Hamburg Fredercia leg, they aren't on the internal Danish train, and the system wouldn't just accept the reservation request for the part of the journey that was reservable. Is this a normal problem with reservations on DB services?
 

Shinkansenfan

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Hi - I'm booked on the direct Copenhagen-Hamburg train, via the ferry, in November. But the schedule I've looked up, relating to my journey, does include 2 stops between Copenhagen and Ringsted - Ny Elleberg (which is, admittedly, more or less in Copenhagen) and Koege Nord (which is about halfway). So is this the new line or not?

It looks like you're booked to travel via the new line!

According to this link: https://www.railtech.com/infrastruc...h-speed-rail-launched-in-denmark/?gdpr=accept
Koge Nord is a new station on the high speed line, while Koge is the classic track station; they are separated by a motorway, but joined by a pedestrian footbridge (a photo of these two stations appear in the link above).

The attached report has a map showing the new line. It would make sense for the EC trains to run via the new tracks to help reduce congestion on the classic main line.
 

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AlbertBeale

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It looks like you're booked to travel via the new line!

According to this link: https://www.railtech.com/infrastruc...h-speed-rail-launched-in-denmark/?gdpr=accept
Koge Nord is a new station on the high speed line, while Koge is the classic track station; they are separated by a motorway, but joined by a pedestrian footbridge (a photo of these two stations appear in the link above).

The attached report has a map showing the new line. It would make sense for the EC trains to run via the new tracks to help reduce congestion on the classic main line.

Great - thanks - that's helpful.

Though in fact, checking various maps, it seems that the other station by the new line's Koge Nord station is not Koge station on the classic tracks, as you say, but Koge Nord on the route of the (metro-style?) S-trains from Copenhagen to Koge. The classic line joins the S-train route a bit later, and both then go to the actual Koge station some distance further on. There is no common station between the new line and the classic line there; the former diverges before the latter meets the S-train line.

I see that the speed planned for the new route is not exceptionally high by European high-speed standards, though it's a bit faster than existing Danish lines. - but the new line means that the higher speed can be maintained for some distance, which of course is what makes the difference, rather than worrying about pushing the top speed up a bit more. [Interestingly, in this context, many people in the UK fret about the lack of high-speed trains here, when it's not the actual top speed that's the problem, but having a route where you can maintain it. The improved Danish lines are planned to have 200kph and 250 kph running. But the UK has had trains traveling at the former speed for literally decades, and in recent years some UK trains are not much below the latter. The problem is much less the top speed, than being able to run at it more consistently.]

Getting back to the Copenhagen-Hamburg service, what's notable is that the journey time using the new line is hardly different. Perhaps because the new line is a relatively small proportion of the overall route; possibly because the rolling stock on that service can't make full use of the possible line speed anyway. But as you say, it could be routed that way primarily to improve capacity on the old line. Although there are only 3tph on the major route to Odense, which forks from the line in the Hamburg direction at Ringsted, there are quite a lot of local trains at least as far as Ringsted, which stop at various places and so get in the way of longer-distance services even if the latter aren't particularly high speed. Although the new line joins the original route before Ringsted, it seems to be 4-track for that section - presumably that's part of the new line scheme since it seems unlikely it suddenly switched to 4-track there previously.

Thanks again for clearing this up for me. And it looks like the faster of the Odense-Copenhagen services (including the Fredericia-Odense-Copenhagen services which connect from the Hamburg trains) also go via the new line after Ringsted, so I'll get to try it in both directions!
 

jamesontheroad

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Thanks for all the info.

Having made a big trip from the UK to Sweden in late July, I’ve just confirmed another trip from Sweden to Croatia in later this month, so I’ll get another trip on the (bus and) ferry in a couple of weeks’ time, returning via Fredericia. After that, I don’t think I’ll have an excuse to experience the new line until Christmas, when the Copenhagen - Hamburg train will be routed via the mainland.
 

Shinkansenfan

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Great - thanks - that's helpful.

Though in fact, checking various maps, it seems that the other station by the new line's Koge Nord station is not Koge station on the classic tracks, as you say, but Koge Nord on the route of the (metro-style?) S-trains from Copenhagen to Koge. The classic line joins the S-train route a bit later, and both then go to the actual Koge station some distance further on. There is no common station between the new line and the classic line there; the former diverges before the latter meets the S-train line.


AlbertBeale, thanks for this additional information!
 

30907

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I've had a look at the Deutsche Bahn planner and compared a journey in October with one a couple of months ago, and it looks like the train will indeed be taking the new route.
Bahn.de (for 1 Oct) is showing stops at Koege Nord and Ny Ellebjerg which are on the new route.
Sorry, beaten to it.

As for speeds on the new line, I suspect (a) the IC3s can't take advantage of it and (b) DSB don't want to alter the path into Copenhagen.
 

AlexNL

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There don't seem to be any time gains yet on the end-to-end route between Copenhagen and Rødby, I'm guessing this is due to single line sections restricting capacity: the last 70km in Denmark (on Lolland and Falster) seem to be single line.

Denmark does not currently have trains which can run at 250 km/h. The procurement process for those is ongoing. The IC3's maximum speed is 180 km/h, so it can't use the line to its full potential. And even if the train could go faster, it would be restricted by the signalling system. The 250 km/h can only be reached under ETCS, the classic Danish ZUB system has a max speed of 180 km/h.

High speed rail in Denmark is a bit of a weird story. They started massive rail projects a couple of years ago, only for the next government to stop them ("we should focus on roads instead"). Works have been restarted recently though.
 
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ainsworth74

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My geography isn't quite up to this but am I correct in my understanding that as of 29 September the train no longer uses the ferry between Hamburg and Copenhagen?
 

30907

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My geography isn't quite up to this but am I correct in my understanding that as of 29 September the train no longer uses the ferry between Hamburg and Copenhagen?

Not quite, it's from the December timetable change.

Detail: the problem has been a RRB on the Danish side, the trains have been using the ferry but terminating at Nykoebing. Through services to Copenhagen should resume on 29 Sept (yes, a Sunday!) and run till December.
After that the line on the German side is closed completely for rebuilding to high(er) speed standard (it being in parts slow, winding and single) and a replacement service will run via Jutland (speeded up a bit by skipping Flensburg IIRC) and the Great Belt bridge/tunnel. It won't be much slower than the present route.
 

ainsworth74

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Aha so if one were to travel in October say between the two it should still be with the ferry?
 

jamesontheroad

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A tweet emerged tonight, appearing to show a Danish copy of the new timetable from December. An unintended consequence of the change away from the ferry means the train loses its EuroCity status, as there’s no catering on the route now.
 

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A tweet emerged tonight, appearing to show a Danish copy of the new timetable from December. An unintended consequence of the change away from the ferry means the train loses its EuroCity status, as there’s no catering on the route now.

It clarifies that the only reason it got EC before was that the restaurant on the ferry counted! The trains have and always did have a trolley (except possibly in the ICE-TD era).
 

U-Bahnfreund

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I travelled with EC 236 from Hamburg to Copenhagen today and the train indeed went onto the ferry. Just a minute after leaving the ferry the train stops at Rødby Færge and there is a direct coach to Copenhagen waiting there. Only annoying thing are the ID / passport checks which are carried out on the platform. The coach reaches Copenhagen just in time to miss the Stockholm train (literally the minute we rolled into the bus station is when the X2000 leaves).
 

mikey9

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I've done both the Fehmarn and Messina train ferries in recent years, both very interesting operations.
The train drives straight onto the Fehmarn ships, and it's quite an efficient operation.
At Messina there is quite a bit of faffing about, splitting the train and shunting the two portions onto the ferry, and again on the other side.
The train reverses on the mainland side. Efficient it is not, for 2 trains each way per day (maybe with more crossings for freight wagons).
On both crossings you have to leave the train and go on deck with the train locked.
It takes 2 hours between arriving at Villa San Giovanni and leaving Messina, 3 miles away.
Trenitalia want to discontinue the Messina train ferry, but the government won't let them, particularly as the mooted replacement bridge is as far away as ever, mainly because of earthquake and environmental concerns.
The crossings themselves (30-45 mins) are a nice break from the train, the Fehmarn ships are well appointed, while the Messina crossing is highly scenic.
Just an update from a couple of weeks ago - you don't have to get off on the Messina train ferry - and the train isn't locked. Me and the boys left my wife in bed whilst we explored the ship, the train deck and the other two sections of the train at 5am (with half the occupants of the train). Even managed another couple of hours sleep when we arrived on Sicily - then a 15 mins early arrival and 10 ins early departure from Catania CLE!
 

AlbertBeale

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Just an update from a couple of weeks ago - you don't have to get off on the Messina train ferry - and the train isn't locked. Me and the boys left my wife in bed whilst we explored the ship, the train deck and the other two sections of the train at 5am (with half the occupants of the train). Even managed another couple of hours sleep when we arrived on Sicily - then a 15 mins early arrival and 10 ins early departure from Catania CLE!

Yes - I've gone up and down between the train and the boat deck upstairs during the Messina crossing. And it must be far more than 2 trains a day. When I travelled that route only a few years ago there were at least two different scheduled night trains with sleepers crossing in each direction each day (one between various parts of Sicily and Rome, leaving Sicily in the evening; and another leaving earlier and getting to Milan the next morning; plus vice versa in each case), plus intercity day trains - and, as far as I could tell, some regional connections as well. Plus freight. On one night train route the travel across on the boat is during the night, on the other it's still (or already, depending on direction) daytime.

There seemed to be two different rail vehicle-carrying boats on the route and (at least on once side) two adjacent places where they could dock, so one train ferry could arrive before the other had left. It did seem a fairly well-used connection. But yes - the splitting of the train and the shunting and reversing onto the boat on the mainland side was certainly done with "Italian-style" speed and efficiency...
 
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jamesontheroad

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You gave me daydreaming for summer 2020... from Sweden to Sicily, via Snälltåget and Trenitalia, the only two remaining sleeper trains on ferries!
 

Richard Scott

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Going on this next week - appears train carries on to Nykoebing and can get a bus from there to Naestved, assume this is a booked connection? Whilst it arrives later in Copenhagen does mean can get ME1500 from Naestved avoiding some bus mileage. Hope the connection makes, can anyone confirm?
 

HamworthyGoods

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It clarifies that the only reason it got EC before was that the restaurant on the ferry counted! The trains have and always did have a trolley (except possibly in the ICE-TD era).

The ICE-TD used to use the buffets.

In more recent years you don’t have to have catering to be classed as en EC - examples of Long Distance ECs without catering are EC Avala between Wien/Budapest and Beograd, EC Sava between Villach and Vinkovci and in its latter years until withdrawal EC Iris between Brussels and Chur.
 
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The ICE-TD used to use the buffets.

In more recent years you don’t have to have catering to be classed as en EC - examples of Long Distance ECs without catering are EC Avala between Wien/Budapest and Beograd, EC Sava between Villach and Vinkovci and in its latter years until withdrawal EC Iris between Brussels and Chur.

Don't forget Le Vauban! Jean Monnet EC 295/296 also ran from '99-2011 as a EuroCity sans voiture restaurant and then as a TER200 cut back to Luxembourg - Bâle SNCF until 2016, no idea why the Jean Monnet had to go too as there was and still is no replacement with just two TGV train pairs at rather inconvenient times towards Marseilles and Montpellier respectively which are of course réservation obligatoire.. But this is O/T...

EDIT: Just read on twitter that the EuroCity / D-Zug Avala EC/D 344/345 is to be renamed on Monday: "Semmelweis" (it has been cutback to operate Wien-Budapest while the line to Beograd is closed for construction works) and gets its Hungarian resto back! As do the other two Hungarian EC trains; Lehár & Hortobágy on the route Wien-Budapest, new compositions already uploaded to Vagonweb indeed good news!

: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=START&kategorie=EC&cislo=345&nazev=Semmelweis&rok=2019
 
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Olympian

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Looking forward to finally going on this train ferry next week after this thread prompted me to get a trip booked before it stopped running for good later in the year. Also really pleased after searching various itineraries on the DB website a couple of weeks ago to find a 1st Class Super Sparpreis EU ticket for Copenhagen -> Hamburg -> Berlin -> Prague on EC and ICE trains at sensible times and with overnight breaks along the way for only 79 Euros!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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EDIT: Just read on twitter that the EuroCity / D-Zug Avala EC/D 344/345 is to be renamed on Monday: "Semmelweis" (it has been cutback to operate Wien-Budapest while the line to Beograd is closed for construction works) and gets its Hungarian resto back! As do the other two Hungarian EC trains; Lehár & Hortobágy on the route Wien-Budapest, new compositions already uploaded to Vagonweb indeed good news!
: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=START&kategorie=EC&cislo=345&nazev=Semmelweis&rok=2019

I used EC344 last year, throughout from Beograd to Vienna (in the last couple of weeks of the original Beograd station).
I was astonished it set off with just 3 coaches and ended up in Vienna 12 hours later, still with 3 coaches.
I wouldn't have called it an EC service.
I imagine its replacement will be a better MAV train.

The rebuilding of the Budapest-Beograd route is going to take years (mostly with Russian/Chinese money).
I think this is off-topic... ;)
 

30907

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Looking forward to finally going on this train ferry next week after this thread prompted me to get a trip booked before it stopped running for good later in the year. Also really pleased after searching various itineraries on the DB website a couple of weeks ago to find a 1st Class Super Sparpreis EU ticket for Copenhagen -> Hamburg -> Berlin -> Prague on EC and ICE trains at sensible times and with overnight breaks along the way for only 79 Euros!
Did it on Wednesday 2nd (Luebeck-Nykoebing-Hamburg) and 1st was full northbound (2xIC3) but quieter southbound (also 2×IC3). Worth noting that you risk a 30 minute delay if the train is a bit late into Roedby F - but not a bit problem with a through ticket.
 

tynesider

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I also did the route last week - Interestingly (to me, anyway), northbound EC33 used the new HSL and called at Køge Nord, but southbound EC32 ran via Roskilde. A late start from Copenhagen resulted in us being 40' late at Rødby, but as the current ferry frequency is every 40 minutes, a ship was waiting for us and we rolled straight on.

Very impressed with the services available on the ferry too! Not the cheapest, but I guess that's expected for a captive market.
 
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I had heard about this too and it has been on my bucket list for quite some time. Finally this summer I took the train from Hamburg as far as Rödby, the DSB IC3 train boarding the Prinsesse Benedickte at Puttgarden.
Then recorded the ride back to Hamburg that afternoon, with the Schleswig-Holstein providing the voyage back to Puttgarden.
 
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