Robertj21a
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Isn't that their standard response, to anything ?
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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia
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Isn't that their standard response, to anything ?
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krus_aragon
Established Member
Gobowen's down platform is 126m long, the up is 166m. (For comparison, Platform 1 at Chester, used for terminating West Coast Voyager services, is 124m.)
Walsall's P2 and P3 are 177m, P1 is 111m.
thenorthern
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Other than more stops at Motherwell, replacement of Voyagers, "looking at" doubling the frequency to Liverpool and a couple of service extensions the services seem pretty much the same as they are now.
I would assume the new trains to replace the voyagers will be bi-mode trains equipped with tilt function.
I would assume the new trains to replace the voyagers will be bi-mode trains equipped with tilt function.
Yet EMR / Rock Rail supposedly placed an order for 5-car trains because they were scared nobody else would want 8/9 car units at a later date.
Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
It would be remiss not to quote them, all the same
pdeaves
Established Member
Yes, it (seems to be) pretty much their reason to exist to make such announcements.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I was wondering that. Not knowing the area it does seem like an odd place to terminate London services at. Is there an operational reason why this might be the case, as the population of the village doesn't seem to justify this? Or is it a political one, keeping one of the current Eurosceptic MPs onboard? (Sorry if that seems cynical, but we live in cynical times)
nedchester
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That's their default position...…..
When has the RMT not condemned anything?
4-SUB 4732
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So little more than 6 x 23m or 6 x 26m; seems plausible for the new electric trains to be 5x26m (e.g. 397 or 801) and being used on Birmingham stuff; pairs being split where required at peak times.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Gobowen is a railhead for Oswestry, which is a bit larger. The new service only makes sense to be as an easy extension of an existing service. As pointed out by @LNW-GW Joint, the map on the DfT's website shows it to be an extension of the daily Wrexham service, the stock for which comes from the depot in the morning, and goes straight to the depot again in the evening. Extending it to Gobowen doesn't directly impact any other diagrams, it just needs it to spend less time at the depot. Low hanging fruit, and all that...
Bantamzen
Established Member
Wilts Wanderer
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Assuming you meant geographically, along the full length of the WCML?
Regarding tilt & 125mph, doesn't HS2 include some linespeed enhancements between Crewe and Scotland for trains without tilt capability? The 221 tilt is only a partial system anyway, the linespeeds are generally lower than the full EPS that 390s enjoy so the impact of non-tilt stock may less than some people think.
I suspect the Walsall service will couple at New Street to another portion from Shrewsbury. I think the Shrewsbury services currently couple to another unit at New Street. So the only change is the other unit that currently starts empty at New Street would start at Walsall. On the station drop down on the map it also mentions that Shrewsbury will be gaining 1 extra service.
transmanche
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As noted elsewhere (and detailed on the DfT map), the Gobowen service will be an extension of the Wrexham service (via Chester), not an extension of the Shrewsbury service.
Gobowen station is the railhead for Oswestry and the surrounding borders area, it doesn't solely serve the village itself.
krus_aragon
Established Member
As the Gobowen service will start/terminate there and operate via Wrexham, they could use the longer up platform for both (assuming the crossover at Gobowen North is cleared for passenger services). Though if First are unable to use P1 at Chester for terminating services, that's going to result in even more pressure on the three through platforms.
Walsall is well off my scope. Do signal positions allow the use of selective door opening on a long unit there?
d9009alycidon
Member
Heard the first nickname coined on Facebook - "First Genitalia"
True. They are getting right on my t*ts lately.
We've already had loads of threads debating whether or not people prefer a shop/buffet or a trolley, so please use the following thread to discuss that topic specifically:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...et-shop-vs-trolley.188088/page-3#post-4153358
Edit: it's also been pointed out to me that we have a discussion dedicated to the replacement rolling stock too: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-new-rolling-stock-discussion.188847/
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...et-shop-vs-trolley.188088/page-3#post-4153358
Edit: it's also been pointed out to me that we have a discussion dedicated to the replacement rolling stock too: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-new-rolling-stock-discussion.188847/
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I'm surprised that the no deal Tories are giving a nationalised company from an EU state a slice of the torta!Hope you aren’t expecting wood fired oven pizzas
Wilts Wanderer
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In theory if bi-mode stock was employed it could run ECS via the Sutton Park line and avoid reversing at Walsall. Or electric-only ECS via the newly electrified Chase Line from the WCML at Rugeley.
YorkshireBear
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It's boring and meaningless when they do it. They use hyperbole words such as chaos but.... No one listens anymore. I certainly just roll my eyes.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Class 221 tilt to 6 degrees, whereas Class 390 tilts to 8 degrees. There are a few differential EPS (Enhanced Permissible Speeds) of short lengths South from Rugby, lower speed for 221s, otherwise the majority of EPS route miles is the same for both units. 221s do accelerate quite a bit slower though.
RailWonderer
Established Member
This comes as a great shame to me. Virgin is easy to criticise because we haven’t known anything else since 1996. They provide a great standard of service and there was little for me to complain about and much of the hate I heard was picking holes. The delays are mostly not in their control and the only problem I can point out was the sometimes harsh nature of on train and gate line staff for tickets and the sometimes rude catering staff (that one was in my experience).
The 390s definitely need an interior refresh as the seats and carpets are quite worn now, some panels rattle slightly too, but thats a minor rolling stock issue, and the seats are some of the best seats I’ve sat on in a UK train so a new franchise is welcome. I will miss VT and their talking toilets and their best buddy way of talking although this forum tends to like knocking them for that. This type of marketing was good for occasional travellers tourists and families. Service generally was A* even though prices were high. But the new franchise will be no different. Honestly it’s a big shame.
The BBC article notes ‘better catering’ but this is conveniently vague. Does better mean more cost efficient and demand suited? If so then Birmingham - Euston could axe the shop for a trolley. That’s an idea.
Can anyone say how VT lost the franchise or is it too early to say? A renewal would’ve been more sensible. It’s not like VT provided a substandard service and failed on their obligations like other franchises did (*cough cough NX*)
Farewell VT, obituary over.
The 390s definitely need an interior refresh as the seats and carpets are quite worn now, some panels rattle slightly too, but thats a minor rolling stock issue, and the seats are some of the best seats I’ve sat on in a UK train so a new franchise is welcome. I will miss VT and their talking toilets and their best buddy way of talking although this forum tends to like knocking them for that. This type of marketing was good for occasional travellers tourists and families. Service generally was A* even though prices were high. But the new franchise will be no different. Honestly it’s a big shame.
The BBC article notes ‘better catering’ but this is conveniently vague. Does better mean more cost efficient and demand suited? If so then Birmingham - Euston could axe the shop for a trolley. That’s an idea.
Can anyone say how VT lost the franchise or is it too early to say? A renewal would’ve been more sensible. It’s not like VT provided a substandard service and failed on their obligations like other franchises did (*cough cough NX*)
Farewell VT, obituary over.
I thought it said ‘First Tarantula’ at first
nlogax
Established Member
Got it, thank you
Will be following the discussion at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-new-rolling-stock-discussion.188847/ with interest. Looks like the question was also posed and answered there.
dk1
Veteran Member
We may never know whether Virgin had the winning bid. We just know they where disqualified due to the majority shareholder Stagecoach's issue on pensions.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Hopefully this means some decent Italian cuisine in First Class
Pasta Pomodoro all round! Lol
And yet another successful bidder is a state owned transport company. Because they don’t have to make economic sense or properly account for costs (like pensions). First partnered up with them. Presumably the liability / risk split is done so that long term risk falls on Trenitalia and first is basically an service provider operator only. If you wanted to spin it, then it would be a massive EU commitment at a time of political uncertainty. But that doesn’t suit most of the agenda.
Still, Trenitalia has 4th class.
What’s Italian for mega train?
Western Lord
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I imagine that in a post-HS2 world tilt will be a thing of the past on the WCML. On the southern part, all the fastest trains will be on HS2, on the northern part all the principal trains will be non-tilting HS2 sets, surely no justification for maintaining tilt for secondary services. Nobody has UK gauge tilting trains in their catalogues, let alone tilting bi-modes and the numbers involved hardly make coming up with a bespoke design worthwhile.
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