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Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

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90019

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You simply ought not to have a step without considering adequate head height above it.
You presumably have eyes - I would suggest you should try using them and being aware of your surroundings, you might be surprised how much it helps avoid minor injuries from bumping into things.
Mind you, avoiding things won't get any compensation, so there's that.

Oooh, local news bingo!
It's just missing the photo of them looking grumpy in front of the junction.

Given that she was clearly not driving appropriately for the situation, carrying excessive speed on the approach to the junction while demonstrating a severe lack of awareness of other vehicles around her, I feel like she probably shouldn't be driving anyway, and that it was a matter of time before she was involved in a collision of some sort.
That she then tries to offload blame from a collision that was her own fault to another driver shows that she is unlikely to learn from the experience and do anything to change her behaviour on the roads.

My own experience says that the difference in how far out an XLB has to swing compared to a Gemini on that particular junction is minimal, though if it had happened with a Gemini I doubt the evening bog roll would be particularly interested, since it wouldn't allow them to further their vendetta against the new buses.
 
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GusB

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You presumably have eyes - I would suggest you should try using them and being aware of your surroundings, you might be surprised how much it helps avoid minor injuries from bumping into things.
Mind you, avoiding things won't get any compensation, so there's that.


Oooh, local news bingo!
It's just missing the photo of them looking grumpy in front of the junction.

Given that she was clearly not driving appropriately for the situation, carrying excessive speed on the approach to the junction while demonstrating a severe lack of awareness of other vehicles around her, I feel like she probably shouldn't be driving anyway, and that it was a matter of time before she was involved in a collision of some sort.
That she then tries to offload blame from a collision that was her own fault to another driver shows that she is unlikely to learn from the experience and do anything to change her behaviour on the roads.

My own experience says that the difference in how far out an XLB has to swing compared to a Gemini on that particular junction is minimal, though if it had happened with a Gemini I doubt the evening bog roll would be particularly interested, since it wouldn't allow them to further their vendetta against the new buses.
Looking at the photos in that "news" article, the bus exiting the junction does appear to swing out into what looks like a filter lane for turning right off the main road. But it also appears to me that those lanes are fairly narrow anyway, and I'd imagine that any bus would have to swing out a bit in order to negotiate the turn, as would a HGV or similar large vehicle. It's just a case of not reading the road ahead and taking into account the limitations of other vehicles on the road.

An example: I was travelling along the A96 today and saw a bus waiting to exit onto the main road, knowing that in order to negotiate the junction it would have to briefly swing out onto the opposite side. I was slowing down for the 40mph limit anyway and there was a gap in the oncoming traffic, so I slowed a little more, gave a quick flash of the headlights and the bus pulled out. It's no skin off my nose as the speed limit drops again to 30mph a short distance afterwards. I got a cheery wave from the bus driver and we all carried on.
 

bobslack1982

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I have never in my life boarded a bus, plane, train or tram and inadvertently suffered an injury due to what I see as an extraordinary design fail.

I don’t believe for a second that you’ve never gone to the back of any rear engines double decker bus and haven’t noticed that there’s a step there taking you to the rearmost seats.
 

Edirim

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483 has the seats upstairs counter (for lack of a better phrase) but when I was on it a few weeks ago I noticed it was updated from a simple led number screen with no info to explain what it was and has been replaced by a lcd screen with information and a graphic to assist in understanding what on earth its refering to.

Anyone know how it actually works?
 

90019

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Looking at the photos in that "news" article, the bus exiting the junction does appear to swing out into what looks like a filter lane for turning right off the main road. But it also appears to me that those lanes are fairly narrow anyway, and I'd imagine that any bus would have to swing out a bit in order to negotiate the turn, as would a HGV or similar large vehicle. It's just a case of not reading the road ahead and taking into account the limitations of other vehicles on the road.
Exactly.
In my experience, the difference in how far you have to swing out there between an Enviro and a Gemini is minimal - both require going most of the way into the right turn lane, and given how many buses are doing it every day, I'm surprised it took this long for her to not notice and have a crash.
 

ClydeCoaster

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I think for the couple in question the clue is in the statement "our insurers are holding us responsible for the accident". Yes. That. Round my local area I can think of a fair few junctions and mini roundabouts that an E400MMC or particularly an E300 has to take a rather large swing to get out of, encroaching into the opposite lane - long vehicles need a wide berth exiting a junction, and as someone has alluded to, she showed little awareness to her surroundings because from the description it sounds very much like the bus had already begun its turn out the junction as she approached.
 

Grumpyscot

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I think for the couple in question the clue is in the statement "our insurers are holding us responsible for the accident". Yes. That. Round my local area I can think of a fair few junctions and mini roundabouts that an E400MMC or particularly an E300 has to take a rather large swing to get out of, encroaching into the opposite lane - long vehicles need a wide berth exiting a junction, and as someone has alluded to, she showed little awareness to her surroundings because from the description it sounds very much like the bus had already begun its turn out the junction as she approached.
Is it not still a 20mph limit there? In which case, even a muppet could stop in just a few feet - especially a Honda CRV (I know, I 've been driving them for 15 years!)
 

Jordan Adam

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Arguably looking at that particular junction the amount the bus swings out is more down to the angle the driver takes the turn rather than vehicle type. Even then any bus type would swing in to that right turn lane!

Typical EEN with their petty ongoing anti-Lothian agenda.
 

OmniCity999

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483 has the seats upstairs counter (for lack of a better phrase) but when I was on it a few weeks ago I noticed it was updated from a simple led number screen with no info to explain what it was and has been replaced by a lcd screen with information and a graphic to assist in understanding what on earth its refering to.

Anyone know how it actually works?

There is a counter above the stairs and in on of the stairs.
 

Darklord8899

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In theory knowing if there is free seat seats upstairs before heading up, is a good idea, as I've often seen a number of passengers head up the stairs to only then try turn round and return downward due to no seats, all the while others attempting to head up....

In reality, will passengers even notice it? It seems some people can't even manage to not hit their head on a ceiling..... :rolleyes:;):p
 

ejstubbs

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Is it not still a 20mph limit there? In which case, even a muppet could stop in just a few feet

Yes, it changes to NSL just beyond the junction. Approaching that junction to turn right the road is still going noticeably uphill*, making it even easier to stop.

* At about 1 in 13, going from the OS 1:25k map
 

OmniCity999

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Has it been marked as a success? If so, do you think it will be rolled out on the whole fleet over time? I like the idea but have no idea if it works as it should

I think the deliveries on 68 and 19 latest can answer that question. Nothing new has been delivered with them and the company wont waste any money retrofitting them.

We're due an AVL/tracker upgrade to the fleet soon. That's more important... seat counters arent seen as 100% required unfortunately.
 

Jordan Adam

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I think the deliveries on 68 and 19 latest can answer that question. Nothing new has been delivered with them and the company wont waste any money retrofitting them.

We're due an AVL/tracker upgrade to the fleet soon. That's more important... seat counters arent seen as 100% required unfortunately.

Surely a simple camera and screen showing the upper deck would suffice, that way passengers can see for themselves if there's seats on the upper deck. I'm pretty sure the bulk of the Lothian fleet already have this anyway.
 

Darklord8899

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We're due an AVL/tracker upgrade to the fleet soon.

Don't know if you'll have an answer for this, but you might!

One thing I've noticed with the 'Estimated time of arrival' displays (on the 300) quite often after a driver change, but often when I'm half way through a journey they change to the opposite direction.... why/how does this happen?
As an example....
I get the 6:10am 300 from Sighthill to Southside....
It will be display the correct points with times
Longstone Road 06:13
Slateford Station 06:20 etc
Then all of a sudden it will read (and we might only be at chesser or Fountainbridge....)
Cameron Toll 06:52
Newington Road 06:58
Surgeon's Hall 07:06

Likewise I've seen it happen on my return journey to Sighthill, that after a driver change it displays it's departure time from Airport and gives times back to Cameron Toll

It's not even as if the bus is particularly late either.....
 

TheEastCoaster

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PM1050765/9 EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED, 55 ANNANDALE ST, EDINBURGH, EH7 4AZ
Operating between Dunbar and Edinburgh given service number X7 / effective from 12 August 2019. To amend Timetable.

Did anyone have any idea what this was all about? Either it was VERY minor or just unannounced
 

Darklord8899

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PM1050765/9 EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED, 55 ANNANDALE ST, EDINBURGH, EH7 4AZ
Operating between Dunbar and Edinburgh given service number X7 / effective from 12 August 2019. To amend Timetable.

Did anyone have any idea what this was all about? Either it was VERY minor or just unannounced

Not sure what this change is....
Did notice that there was only a few days between the last 2 variations to the service...

Variation 5 was received 31st May to take effect 19th July
Variation 6 was received July 3rd to take effect 12th August

.....Maybe there was a mistake that needed corrected?
 

TheEastCoaster

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Not sure what this change is....
Did notice that there was only a few days between the last 2 variations to the service...

Variation 5 was received 31st May to take effect 19th July
Variation 6 was received July 3rd to take effect 12th August

.....Maybe there was a mistake that needed corrected?

Possibly but I did some looking up and nothing seems to come up, definitely will write that off as an error
 

Old Passenger

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Ultimately I feel what happened to me could easily be happening to other people day in day out. It shouldn’t be.

No one seems to picking up on the fact LB are aware of this issue. I believe exact words yesterday were “it’s a known issue.”

Yes, people will have mishaps, not be as aware as they should be etc but I don’t think this should be happening.
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You have my sympathies, edinbusman. I also found this headroom problem as soon as the XLBs appeared on the No. 11s. I am 5 foot 9 inches (175cm) tall, in other words not especially tall. There is no other bus type, indeed, no other vehicle type in which I bang my head off the ceiling. I'm interested to hear that LB know about the problem. In my view there are a number of detail defects in the interior fit-out of these buses that make them a pretty uncomfortable travelling experience, plus the major defect of the reduction in pushchair/wheelchair spaces compared to the previous body styles. I find it interesting that so many correspondents here appear to point out that the XLBs conform to laid-down standards. My view would be that the standards aren't up to the job. The XLB design looks to me to have been compromised on travelling quality, probably so as to meet a price target. No doubt others will point out that I am in error, and I look forward to hearing their views. In the meantime these buses are for me, and my family and friends, the Noisy Heid-Bangers.
 

SpeedbirdA350

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You have my sympathies, edinbusman. I also found this headroom problem as soon as the XLBs appeared on the No. 11s. I am 5 foot 9 inches (175cm) tall, in other words not especially tall. There is no other bus type, indeed, no other vehicle type in which I bang my head off the ceiling.

Not being funny but you bang your head on the B8L but not any other bus? Have you ever been to the upper deck on a Gemini 3?! With many passangers over 6ft using these buses on a daily basis, including some on this forum, who do sit at the rear too, and have managed to not hit their head, for someone less than 6ft to have that issue is suprising. I have myself been on those buses quite a few times and never hit my head either, although I do look around at my surroundings.You had said previously this happened back in March, so has it happened again?

With that said, I have seen one person hit their head when on a Gemini 3 lower deck not long ago but they did have their head in their phone and it was in to a pole.

Buses are designed and tested. If this were an issue, do you not think that it would have been spotted during testing phase? Do you not think that Lothian, Volvo and ADL would have known by now and acted? How come it has not been a problem in over 5 months of active service? Lothian have 78 in the fleet at the moment too.

Given 2 people have said this issue on here, I would suggest user error over design issue. Out of the circa million plus people who have used a Lothian B8L since launch, for just 2 people to have spoke about it, on this forum no less, one of, is talking about a frivolous lawsuit, I see no issue.

plus the major defect of the reduction in pushchair/wheelchair spaces compared to the previous body styles.

This is plain wrong. The B8L has NOT reduced the number of wheelchair/pushchair spaces. If you look at the overall fleet, they have 1 space for wheelchairs, some have an aditional for buggys so to say they have reduced the number on the B8L compared to previous bodies would mean there would be less than 1, ie none. On the B8L, between the 2 doors, there is a space big enough for a wheelchair and buggy, or 2 buggys possibly 3. Plus, even if they had removed that, it still would not be a defect. A defect is a fault. A MAJOR defect is something that could have the buses off the road.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Completely unrelated but I just went past Willowbrae Gardens on the 113 and the bus stop sign has East Coast Buses, 104, 106 and 113 city bound o_O It’s almost as interesting as the Paisley Drive stop from the city that has N104 on it :lol:
 

OmniCity999

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106 extending to Edinburgh? Tickle me impressed

If I were a betting man, yes. Haddington (Dunbar peaks) - West End via Macmerry, Tranent, Wallyford, Musselburgh, Fort Kinnard, Milton Road, Meadowbank, Regent Road, West End.

Possibly limited stop from FK to the West End. Would ease congestion on the 30. Maybe even double deck and omitting Newcraighall village.

N104 possibly to replace the N106
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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If I were a betting man, yes. Haddington (Dunbar peaks) - West End via Macmerry, Tranent, Wallyford, Musselburgh, Fort Kinnard, Milton Road, Meadowbank, Regent Road, West End.

Possibly limited stop from FK to the West End. Would ease congestion on the 30. Maybe even double deck and omitting Newcraighall village.

N104 possibly to replace the N106
I suggested the extended 106 ages ago, good to see it’s finally happening, gives Newcraighall Village and Fort Kinnaird a faster bus to town so will be used

N104 sounds like a good idea as N113 still covers the lost section of route
 

OmniCity999

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I suggested the extended 106 ages ago, good to see it’s finally happening, gives Newcraighall Village and Fort Kinnaird a faster bus to town so will be used

N104 sounds like a good idea as N113 still covers the lost section of route

I'm thinking an amended 106 might either bypass Newcraighall village or be the replacement for the 30 to allow it to serve QMU and run fast to The Fort...

If it bypasses Newcraighall, they can use deckers on it adding capacity. If it replaces the 30 by going through Newcraighall, the 30 can goto deckers and run fast to FK.

Maybe even then allowing the 104 to bypass Wallyford and join the bypass from Tranent to provide a slightly faster time.

Or it could / probably be a mistake that those numbers have been added to the bus flag.

ECB is growing slowly, which is the best way to do it, build up services over time and create a network that is reliable and that people want to use. It's better than starting a whole new company in competition and adding loads of bizarre services and knocking them off one at a time. Not saying that's happening to LC, but it might.
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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I'm thinking an amended 106 might either bypass Newcraighall village or be the replacement for the 30 to allow it to serve QMU and run fast to The Fort...

Maybe even then allowing the 104 to bypass Wallyford and join the bypass from Tranent to provide a slightly faster time.
It will be interesting to see the exact route but as you say a number of options are possible. Personally I’m hoping it’s just not the extension rather than the reroute as well. It could favour better against the 108/118 if it did that.

With regards to the 30 in the future I hope the bus isn’t gonna need to use Old Craighall roundabout heading to town, that would be a bit of a nightmare.

Anyone aware of any other proposed changes not previously discussed?
 

OmniCity999

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It will be interesting to see the exact route but as you say a number of options are possible. Personally I’m hoping it’s just not the extension rather than the reroute as well. It could favour better against the 108/118 if it did that.

With regards to the 30 in the future I hope the bus isn’t gonna need to use Old Craighall roundabout heading to town, that would be a bit of a nightmare.

Anyone aware of any other proposed changes not previously discussed?

Nothings submitted to Vosa yet. Except the 107 apparently - but I cant find it.
 
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