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Trivia: Services which were never introduced since Privatization

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Jorge Da Silva

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Similar to the Withdrawn Services thread but these are services which have been planned under a franchise but never introduced or an open access operator but never introduced. This could be services planned then abandoned but later introduced under a different franchise? Finally what stock was planned to use the service. Very interested to see what answers we get I’ll start:

National express planned to run a direct 2-hourly services to Lincoln and one train per day terminating at Cleethorpes but the franchisee went bust in 2009 and East Coast took on the plans and were going to use class 180’s but the plans were scrapped and a reduced plan for just one train per day was put forward. This began in 2010.
 
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Way back Cross Country were going to provide a 2 hourly service from London Paddington To Birmingham via Swindon. (So alternate trains Great Western and Cross Country) The plans got as far as Wales and the West withdrawing from the Stroud Valley and cross country providing a service from Swindon. They even occasionally used a 2+2 HST so they could stop at Stonehouse. Plan was scrapped after the operation Princess debacle. Was about year 2001/2001 IIRC.

Stroud valley is finally to get its hourly service from December about 18 years late !
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Way back Cross Country were going to provide a 2 hourly service from London Paddington To Birmingham via Swindon. (So alternate trains Great Western and Cross Country) The plans got as far as Wales and the West withdrawing from the Stroud Valley and cross country providing a service from Swindon. They even occasionally used a 2+2 HST so they could stop at Stonehouse. Plan was scrapped after the operation Princess debacle. Was about year 2001/2001 IIRC.

Stroud valley is finally to get its hourly service from December about 18 years late !

Virgin planned to use Class 255’s (virgin Challenger) (refurbished HST’s)
 

krus_aragon

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The Cambrian Coast Express (Paddington to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli) ceased running in 1991, before privatisation.

In the days of Wrexham and Shropshire, Arriva Trains Wales proposed running an Aberystwyth - Marylebone service with their 158s. Nothing came of it.
 

Ianno87

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Grand Central had a plan for a transpennine Liverpool-Newcastle service.

Virgin proposed a Shrewsbury-Wolves-Walsall-Nuneaton-Euston and Shrewsbury-Stafford-Euston services.
 

Ianno87

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When were they proposed? (Both Proposals)

Grand Central was maybe c.2003.

Virgin via Walsall was about the time Wrexham and Shropshire appeared, about 2008.

Virgin via Stafford got as far as being bid and visible in OpenTrainTimes etc about 2013 before being rejected by Network Rail on performance grounds.
 

RichJF

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Southern had grandeous plans for Sussex Coast services via Dorking I believe but they never happened
 

NoMorePacers

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Didn't Southern want to run Brighton-Birmingham New Street services via the WCML but couldn't due to the promised improvement works not happening as expected?
 

ChiefPlanner

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FNW had plans for Crewe - Carlisle with class 309 sets. Came to nothing on capacity and moderation of competition grounds.

Anglia had ideas for Ipswich - Northampton , whilst even Silverlink had ideas for Milton Keynes - Camden Road - Liverpool St in the peaks.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Didn’t Thameslink turn out to be different than first planned?

GNER (Alliance) Planned several services:

  • 2 hourly services to Huddersfield (in opposite hour to Skipton / Ilkley): London King's Cross, Retford, Worksop, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Barnsley, Penistone and Huddersfield.
  • 2 hourly services to Skipton / Ilkley / Bradford (in opposite hour to Huddersfield): London King's Cross, Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Doncaster, Garforth, Leeds, Shipley, Keighley and Skipton or Guiseley and Ilkley or Bradford Forster Square.
  • 4 daily services to Cleethorpes: London King's Cross, Doncaster, Thorne South (Parkway), Scunthorpe, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes.
  • 2 hourly Pennine services (in opposite hour to London Euston-Bradford): Hull, Brough, Howden, Selby, Micklefield(Parkway), Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Rochdale, Manchester Victoria, Eccles (Parkway), Newton-le-Willows (Parkway), St Helens Junction and Liverpool Lime Street.
  • Hourly Kings Cross to Edinburgh Service Calling at Newcastle only
GNWR:

  • 2 hourly services to Leeds (in opposite hour to Bradford): London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby ,Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Crewe, Alderley Edge, Macclesfield , Stockport , Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury and Leeds.
  • 2 hourly services to Bradford (in opposite hour to Leeds): London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Crewe, Winsford (Parkway), Warrington Bank Quays, Newton-le-Willows (Parkway), Eccles (Parkway), Manchester Victoria, Rochdale, Todmorden, Hebden Bridge, Halifax and Bradford Interchange.
  • 3 daily services to Carlisle (in opposite hour to Blackpool): London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Crewe, Winsford (Parkway), Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows (Parkway), Preston, Lancaster, Carnforth, Ulveston, Barrow in Furness, Millom, Sellafield, Whitehaven, Workington, Maryport, Wington and Carlisle.
  • 5 daily services to Blackpool (in opposite hour to Carlisle): London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Crewe, Winsford (Parkway), Warrington Bank Quay, Newton-le-Willows (Parkway), Preston Kirkham and Wesham, Poulton-le-Fylde and Blackpool North.
Grand Central had further plans I think. There were plans for Lincoln at one point and Hull Trains planned services to Harrogate under the name Harrogate Trains and even planned one to Cleethorpes via Spalding and Lincoln.
Platinum Trains was Proposed in the early 2000’s to run 2 trains per day between Aberdeen and London Kings Cross calling at Dundee and Edinburgh only, with new stock to have been ordered in the first year of operation to replace the 180’s. It was rejected in 2009
 
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Failed Unit

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WAGN proposed extending on of their London - Peterborough services to Doncaster calling all stations.

Would have needed looping lots for other trains to pass. Grantham and Retford going north and Retford and Doncaster going south.

Never got paths.

I am sure Anglia planned a wider network than Basingstoke- Stratford (did it go to shenfield) that ran. I think they all use the north London line.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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WAGN proposed extending on of their London - Peterborough services to Doncaster calling all stations.

Would have needed looping lots for other trains to pass. Grantham and Retford going north and Retford and Doncaster going south.

Never got paths.

I am sure Anglia planned a wider network than Basingstoke- Stratford (did it go to shenfield) that ran. I think they all use the north London line.

http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Anglia XLondon (RM -98).jpg

went from Basingstoke to Ipswich and the network should have been:

  • Basingstoke to Ipswich: Farnborough Main, Woking, Feltham, Brentford, Willesden Junction, West Hampstead, Highbury & Islington, Stratford, Romford, Ingatestone, Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester and Ipswich
    • ran further to Norwich via Stowmarket, Diss and Norwich
  • Basingstoke to Watford Junction: Farnborough Main, Woking, Feltham, Brentford, Wembley Central and Watford Junction
  • Northampton to Ipswich: Milton Keynes Central, Leighton Buzzard, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Wembley Central, Highbury and Islington, Stratford, Romford, Ingatestone, Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester and Ipswich
  • Waterloo to Romsey and Southampton Waterfront (formerly Southampton Terminus): calling at: Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh,
    • Southampton Airport Parkway and Southampton Waterfront
    • Chandlers Ford, Halterworth and Romsey
 
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tbtc

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Northern planned a second service per hour on the Mid Cheshire line and beefed up Sunday services but it never happened.

Oh, sorry, you mean *historic* promises/ pledges? The Midland Mainline plan for hourly Leeds services has to be one of the ones that came closet to reality, in that they got the nine coach trains built for it (222s, the four coach ones were intended to replace 170s, before the whole lot were reformed into the current muddle of lengths). Some of the other things on this thread are more like "aspirational ideas for Open Access services", which never got off the crayon board, but the hourly St Pancras - Leeds trains came closer than most to actually happening.

Also, the NXEC plans for regular Harrogate services, which they acquired five 180s for (three of which were lent to Northern when EC took over and got cold feet about the ambitious plans that National Express had had) << i.e. NX did get the stock for the service, they just didn't stick around long enough to start the service!
 

Sad Sprinter

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Yes I remember the Southern plans to Chichester via Dorking from train magazines in the 2002/05 era.

Trying to think, well there was that Platinum Trains proposal which died a death. Kings Cross to Aberdeen calling only at Dundee or something. I remember a proposal for an open access service from Stratford to Cleethorpes. Glasgow Trains (what happened to that?)

Silverlink’s North London Line service to Hounslow.

I remember Wikipedia saying XC we’re going to introduce a Bournemouth to Nottingham service which never happened.

Probably doesn’t count, but I remember Sea Containers’s plan bid for SWT in 2001 included a Raynes Park to Finsbury Park Tunnel. The cover of a 2001 issue Rail Magazine, which I unfortunately lost a very long time ago, showed what I presume was a Juniper unit in GNER livery branded with something like GSWR.

There are loads of proposals probably hidden in my massive childhood collection of train magazines from the 2000s.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Yes I remember the Southern plans to Chichester via Dorking from train magazines in the 2002/05 era.

Trying to think, well there was that Platinum Trains proposal which died a death. Kings Cross to Aberdeen calling only at Dundee or something. I remember a proposal for an open access service from Stratford to Cleethorpes. Glasgow Trains (what happened to that?)

Silverlink’s North London Line service to Hounslow.

I remember Wikipedia saying XC we’re going to introduce a Bournemouth to Nottingham service which never happened.

Probably doesn’t count, but I remember Sea Containers’s plan bid for SWT in 2001 included a Raynes Park to Finsbury Park Tunnel. The cover of a 2001 issue Rail Magazine, which I unfortunately lost a very long time ago, showed what I presume was a Juniper unit in GNER livery branded with something like GSWR.

There are loads of proposals probably hidden in my massive childhood collection of train magazines from the 2000s.


Very interesting.

Platinum Trains I remember reading about as well but the Stratford to Cleethorpes service was Humber & City Railways from Renaissance Trains (used to own Hull Trains with First Group) and Glasgow Trains died in 2009 before being revived in 2014 but nothing has come of it again. The plan for Glasgow Trains was Liverpool-Glasgow and Nottingham-Glasgow as well as Blackpool-Glasgow at Weekends. None of these plans came to anything although Platinum Trains is the only one which lodged an application

NLL Service to Hounslow is interesting and it seems to be happening now with Dudding Hill Line reopening.

XC did introduce a daily Nottingham to Bournemouth service and still exists.

Very interesting Raynes Park to Finsbury Park plan
 

A0wen

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  • 2 hourly services to Leeds (in opposite hour to Bradford): London Euston, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby ,Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Crewe, Alderley Edge, Macclesfield , Stockport , Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury and Leeds.
Intrigued to know how it was going to go Crewe > Alderley Edge > Macc > Stockport..........
 

Darandio

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Trying to think, well there was that Platinum Trains proposal which died a death. Kings Cross to Aberdeen calling only at Dundee or something.

Edinburgh as well, this was their application

The applicant proposes new services under a new contract between Aberdeen and London Kings Cross via the ECML operating two outbound and two return journeys per day (Monday to Friday) and a single outbound and return journey on Saturdays and Sundays. Proposed calling stations are: Dundee and Edinburgh. Rolling stock in the initial three years will be 2 x Class 180 DMUs each consisting of 5 vehicles. It is anticipated to place orders for new build rolling stock in year one and upon delivery will replace the Class 180 DMUs in years 3/4.
 

AY1975

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Way back Cross Country were going to provide a 2 hourly service from London Paddington To Birmingham via Swindon.

I also seem to recall that in the early days of privatisation Virgin XC considered reinstating a West Country to Scotland sleeper, but I'm not sure how serious a proposal that was.
 

RLBH

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Would an Inverness to Penzance Sleeper be possible
It would probably take too long to be worthwhile, and you'd get more custom from a Central Scotland to Bristol, Exeter & Plymouth train. Penzance might be an extension too far. Arguably looking to see if there's stock for it would be taking the idea a bit too far.
 

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What about the East London Line’s original branch to Wimbledon? Finsbury Park and Primrose Hill as well.

Heathrow to St Pancras

The myriad of Thameslink 2000 routes that didn’t come to anything

Silverlink Country’s proposed service to Liverpool Street.
 

Sad Sprinter

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From Watford Junction over the DC Lines?

I think it would have been trains from Northampton. The website that was a treasure trove for failed plans in the late 90s/early 2000s has recently been shut down after being dormant since about 2002. So alas I cannot find any further information on the plan, but I'm certain it would have used class 321s.
 

krus_aragon

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I think it would have been trains from Northampton. The website that was a treasure trove for failed plans in the late 90s/early 2000s has recently been shut down after being dormant since about 2002. So alas I cannot find any further information on the plan, but I'm certain it would have used class 321s.
Do you remember the name or URL of the website? It will probably have been archived by archive.org.
 

NoMorePacers

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I think it would have been trains from Northampton. The website that was a treasure trove for failed plans in the late 90s/early 2000s has recently been shut down after being dormant since about 2002. So alas I cannot find any further information on the plan, but I'm certain it would have used class 321s.
What was the URL? It may still be on the web archive.
 
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