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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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Spartacus

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Aforementioned 5F68 just leaving Leeds after confusing punters waiting for 1P78 to MIA!

upload_2019-8-15_16-10-40.jpeg
 
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BMIFlyer

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The crew on the training trip were NOT rostered for the original 1E31/1F68.

The original trains crew don’t sign the loco and coaches.
 
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Bantamzen

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BMIFlyer said:
The crew on the training trip were NOT rostered for the original 1E31/1F68.

The original trains crew don’t sign the loco and coaches.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that update, hopefully it will put the rumours to bed now. If for some reason a path opens up like that on what is a very busy route, it makes sense to try and use it for a training run (keeping in mind that the crew working this are in learning, so it could not be pressed into replacing the cancelled service).
 
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nedchester

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Bantamzen said:
Thanks for that update, hopefully it will put the rumours to bed now. If for some reason a path opens up like that on what is a very busy route, it makes sense to try and use it for a training run (keeping in mind that the crew working this are in learning, so it could not be pressed into replacing the cancelled service).
Click to expand...

I think the point is that the original crew were available to work a 185 which was there but TPE decided to cancel a perfectly good service for the training run with a 68. Did it really have to replace the path of a service train causing disruption to passengers especially leaving a 2 hour gap in the Scarborough service?
 
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Bantamzen

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nedchester said:
I think the point is that the original crew were available to work a 185 which was there but TPE decided to cancel a perfectly good service for the training run with a 68. Did it really have to replace the path of a service train causing disruption to passengers especially leaving a 2 hour gap in the Scarborough service?
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Where they available though? And was the unit available at Liverpool and not stuck elsewhere? We are not privy to the rosters of the original and training crews, so we can only speculate that this crew could just be swapped onto the cancelled service.

At some point this training has to be done, we all know that TPE have had all manner of operational problems, some their responsibility, some not. But if they keep cancelling training this will further delay the introduction of the new stock, which means further delaying that extra capacity so desperately needed. Sometimes difficult short term decisions need to be made to bolster longer term plans.
 
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nedchester

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Bantamzen said:
Where they available though? And was the unit available at Liverpool and not stuck elsewhere? We are not privy to the rosters of the original and training crews, so we can only speculate that this crew could just be swapped onto the cancelled service.

At some point this training has to be done, we all know that TPE have had all manner of operational problems, some their responsibility, some not. But if they keep cancelling training this will further delay the introduction of the new stock, which means further delaying that extra capacity so desperately needed. Sometimes difficult short term decisions need to be made to bolster longer term plans.
Click to expand...

Fairly sure there was a unit available as the inward working (to work the 09:56) was on time. If you do have to cancel trains you should do those that have the least impact, leaving a gap in service of 2 hours is poor.
 
61653 HTAFC

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I made my way to Huddersfield (despite Yorkshire Tiger's best efforts with a heavily delayed 233) and saw the Nova 3 set pass. There seemed to be fewer than usual waiting to go West than usual, so if the cancelled service was known to be likely to have a lower footfall than usual then it may have made sense to cancel and allow a training run to take place. The run appears to have been held back prior to Mirfield to allow the service from Castleford to run to time ahead of it into HUD. It stopped at the appropriate stop board in P1 for all of 10 seconds, so if it was a trainee at the controls they nailed it!

Heard a couple of people saying things along the lines of "is that one of the new trains? They look nice!". I'm inclined to agree. :D

EDIT: With the stop being so short, I'd assume no guard training was taking place. If there had they (and the platform staff at each station) would have had a job on to stop people boarding.
 
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EE Andy b1

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BMIFlyer said:
The crew on the training trip were NOT rostered for the original 1E31/1F68.

The original trains crew don’t sign the loco and coaches.
Click to expand...

Never said they were.

They didn't need to be. Could be conducted.

Could you please tell me what crew are normally on TPEs training train with Mk5a stock.
I would have thought an instructor driver, training driver, instructor guard, training guard.

So my point was if a full crew was working the training service why could they have not worked that service in passenger use to cover for the 185 and unavailable crew, or is there no guard on the training set?
Most driver and guard training is normally done on service trains in passenger use. It is at other TOCs anyway.


xotGD said:
Make that 180 holidaymakers and 20 cranks!
Click to expand...

Spartacus said:
You’ve got those numbers the wrong way around!
Click to expand...


Lol! yes forgot about them. :lol::lol::lol:
 
BMIFlyer

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EE Andy b1 said:
Never said they were.

They didn't need to be. Could be conducted.

Could you please tell me what crew are normally on TPEs training train with Mk5a stock.
I would have thought an instructor driver, training driver, instructor guard, training guard.

So my point was if a full crew was working the training service why could they have not worked that service in passenger use to cover for the 185 and unavailable crew, or is there no guard on the training set?
Most driver and guard training is normally done on service trains in passenger use. It is at other TOCs anyway.







Lol! yes forgot about them. :lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, all guards who sign the loco hauled stock were on booked jobs elsewhere. The training train only had drivers on.
 
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Bornin1980s

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Wasn't there a time when the railway was run entirely by 'railwaymen,' who would easily done better than this?
 
EE Andy b1

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BMIFlyer said:
As mentioned above, all guards who sign the loco hauled stock were on booked jobs elsewhere. The training train only had drivers on.
Click to expand...

Now we know, thanks.

It's a pity guards weren't in crew plan initially for training on the training train with the drivers. They could have worked the passenger service.
So doors not being released on the training set then? My last thought, i'll move on. o_O


Bornin1980s said:
Wasn't there a time when the railway was run entirely by 'railwaymen,' who would easily done better than this?
Click to expand...

Yes. They would have tried to found a way to run a passenger train, but then they had spare crews and spare rolling stock and spare traction.
 
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BMIFlyer

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EE Andy b1 said:
It's a pity guards weren't in crew plan initially for training on the training train with the drivers.
Click to expand...

That’s early next week. A training train with guards and drivers on. But running on an extra path as ECS.

Today was to give the driver a feel of handling over the actual route to be driven on when in service in a few weeks, which is a damn sight better than just doing Crewe to Wavertree Jn...


EE Andy b1 said:
So doors not being released on the training set then?
Click to expand...

Next week on the next few training trips that will happen as those trains will have guards on.

Before you ask “oh will it carry passengers?”, no it won’t as it’s running very early AM and as ECS on all days that those training trains are currently booked to run.
 
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nedchester said:
Fairly sure there was a unit available as the inward working (to work the 09:56) was on time. If you do have to cancel trains you should do those that have the least impact, leaving a gap in service of 2 hours is poor.
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From RTT, the 0932 arrival from Scarborough went into Platform 2 at Lime Street instead of Platform 1 as booked. Subsequently the 1000 arrival from Newcastle also went into P2 instead of P1 as booked, although P1 was vacant at the time. So I suspect that the two 185s were joined and departed together as 9E10, the 1025 to Newcastle.

This service arrived in Manchester Victoria P4 on time, but departed 2L, after 4 minutes dwell. This suggests that the rear unit may have been detached there. RTT does not show any subsequent ECS move from this platform, but a VSTP working to Ardwick depot would not necessarily be recorded.

I could be wrong, but I would surmise there was some operational reason the 185 could not continue in service to Scarborough (e.g. unit fault or crewmember unavailable).
 
EE Andy b1

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BMIFlyer said:
That’s early next week. A training train with guards and drivers on. But running on an extra path as ECS.

Today was to give the driver a feel of handling over the actual route to be driven on when in service in a few weeks, which is a damn sight better than just doing Crewe to Wavertree Jn...


Next week on the next few training trips that will happen as those trains will have guards on.

Before you ask “oh will it carry passengers?”, no it won’t as it’s running very early AM and as ECS on all days that those training trains are currently booked to run.
Click to expand...

Thanks @BMIFlyer for the info, they will get there i'm sure.
 
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nedchester said:
Fairly sure there was a unit available as the inward working (to work the 09:56) was on time. If you do have to cancel trains you should do those that have the least impact, leaving a gap in service of 2 hours is poor.
Click to expand...

Well as I said there may also have be rostering issues that did not allow it. And the 2 hour gap was only between York & Scarborough, not the entire route. Not ideal I will grant you, but like I also said sometimes short term decisions need to be made to help longer term plans. However if anyone feels that they could do better, I'm sure TPE (and indeed other TOCs) would love to receive your CVs. Its so very easy to simply criticise when you are not in full possession of the facts, indeed social media is so full of "experts" that I am amazed they aren't all in position and making the railway run like clockwork no matter what happens.
 
SP Man

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FFFC 57 said:
The Mk5a can be moved with any locomotive fitted with a draw hook and shackle. However the locomotive will not communicate with the stock via PIS, PADS and fire system.
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A few other systems as well, HABD doesnt work and if no power then no WSP so restricted to 75mph if not powered up. Hauled them in all states with the above traction, currently I think the pair of 86s and then with 47830 was the best.
 
sjpowermac

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Thanks to all for sharing their superb pictures from today, I’ve very much enjoyed seeing them:) Nice to see everyone complying with the ‘no locos’ rule;)

Not sure if I dare post this, but here goes!

Friday 16th August 2019
5F31 Crewe CS-Liverpool Lime Street (09:44)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31901/2019/08/16/advanced

5E31 09:56 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough (12:39)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31899/2019/08/16/advanced

5F68 13:44 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street (16:32)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31896/2019/08/16/advanced

As always, I have no ‘inside’ knowledge, and as yet, 1E31/1F68 not (as yet!) shown as cancelled.

In answer to questions about the training runs over the Pennines, when I’ve seen previous working at York there have been two drivers and a guard on the runs. There have been doors opening! I’ve also seen catering staff too. Can’t comment on today’s trip, it’s the first one I’ve not been able to see!
 
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nedchester

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Bantamzen said:
Well as I said there may also have be rostering issues that did not allow it. And the 2 hour gap was only between York & Scarborough, not the entire route. Not ideal I will grant you, but like I also said sometimes short term decisions need to be made to help longer term plans. However if anyone feels that they could do better, I'm sure TPE (and indeed other TOCs) would love to receive your CVs. Its so very easy to simply criticise when you are not in full possession of the facts, indeed social media is so full of "experts" that I am amazed they aren't all in position and making the railway run like clockwork no matter what happens.
Click to expand...

Some of us DO have day jobs in train planning............
 
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nedchester

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sjpowermac said:
Thanks to all for sharing their superb pictures from today, I’ve very much enjoyed seeing them:) Nice to see everyone complying with the ‘no locos’ rule;)

Not sure if I dare post this, but here goes!

Friday 16th August 2019
5F31 Crewe CS-Liverpool Lime Street (09:44)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31901/2019/08/16/advanced

5E31 09:56 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough (12:39)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31899/2019/08/16/advanced

5F68 13:44 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street (16:32)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31896/2019/08/16/advanced

As always, I have no ‘inside’ knowledge, and as yet, 1E31/1F68 not (as yet!) shown as cancelled.

In answer to questions about the training runs over the Pennines, when I’ve seen previous working at York there have been two drivers and a guard on the runs. There have been doors opening! I’ve also seen catering staff too. Can’t comment on today’s trip, it’s the first one I’ve not been able to see!
Click to expand...

And poor show from TPE again if they cancel the service trains again leaving Scarborough with a 2 hour gap. I’m sure a popular Yorkshire seaside resort is quiet in the middle of August......

Edit: 1E31 cancelled: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81053/2019/08/17/advanced
 
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sjpowermac

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humbersidejim

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My apologies if this has already been answered upthread; I am interested to know what the nature of the issue is, that has delayed the introduction of the mk5a's for TPE.

Why hadn't this been identified and rectified as a result of their trials at Velim?
 
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