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Ongar Branch Closure

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Sad Sprinter

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I heard from somewhere, that the Ongar branch of the Central Line was only kept open to allow civil servants to easily reach the Kelvedon Hatch nuclear bunker not far from Ongar-hence why the line closed in 1994 two years after the bunker closed. Is there any truth in this tale or is it just local folklore?
 
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AlbertBeale

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I heard from somewhere, that the Ongar branch of the Central Line was only kept open to allow civil servants to easily reach the Kelvedon Hatch nuclear bunker not far from Ongar-hence why the line closed in 1994 two years after the bunker closed. Is there any truth in this tale or is it just local folklore?

This seems unlikely. The Kelvendon Hatch bunker - actually at one stage one of the notorious RSGs (Regional Seats of Government), the one which would try to control what was left of Greater London [though it was outside the boundary of the area it was responsible for] after it had been incinerated by nuclear weapons - wasn't, for most at least of its existence, home to any significant number of staff. Much of the time there would have been no-one there at all. I wrote a chapter of a book on this sort of stuff many years ago, and I'm a bit rusty now; but during the '60s '70s and '80s it would have been sitting there to be activated if needed, but not routinely staffed at all.
 

Catracho

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It still could have been the line's purpose, but in case of war/crisis only. Never used for that during peacetime (and then basically superfluous/unnecessary, as you explained) but maintained for wartime use (when it might have been essential). We had a lot of infrastructure like that over here in Germany during the Cold War.
 
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AM9

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I heard from somewhere, that the Ongar branch of the Central Line was only kept open to allow civil servants to easily reach the Kelvedon Hatch nuclear bunker not far from Ongar-hence why the line closed in 1994 two years after the bunker closed. Is there any truth in this tale or is it just local folklore?
Since WW2, Kelvedon Hatch would be easier to access from Brentwood via the GEML than running to the end of the main Central line at Epping, then changing onto the Epping-Ongar shuttle.
 

Sad Sprinter

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This seems unlikely. The Kelvendon Hatch bunker - actually at one stage one of the notorious RSGs (Regional Seats of Government), the one which would try to control what was left of Greater London [though it was outside the boundary of the area it was responsible for] after it had been incinerated by nuclear weapons - wasn't, for most at least of its existence, home to any significant number of staff. Much of the time there would have been no-one there at all. I wrote a chapter of a book on this sort of stuff many years ago, and I'm a bit rusty now; but during the '60s '70s and '80s it would have been sitting there to be activated if needed, but not routinely staffed at all.

Really that is interesting. So not even a skeletal crew of three people or so?

I too have an interest in Cold War civil defence infrastructure, and the KH bunker has always interested me. I don't suppose you know why there is a siren on a pole next to the broadcast tower in the middle of nowhere? I wouldn't have thought there would be anyone around in the immediate vicinity to hear it.

It still could have been the line's purpose, but in case of war/crisis only. Never used for that during peacetime (and then basically superfluous/unnecessary, as you explained) but maintained for wartime use (when it might have been essential). We had a lot of infrastructure like that over here in Germany during the Cold War.

Yes I would have thought Germany would have quite to stop and slow down Soviet invasions. Do you know of any particular examples?
Since WW2, Kelvedon Hatch would be easier to access from Brentwood via the GEML than running to the end of the main Central line at Epping, then changing onto the Epping-Ongar shuttle.

And also more discreet I imagine. Can't say that the sight of a fully loaded Ongar shuttle with white faced men with briefcases going off into the middle of Essex wouldn't raise some eyebrows!
 

John Webb

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Historic England/English Heritage published a book "Cold War - Building for Nuclear Confrontation 1946-1989" in 2003 with several reprints since. The Kelvendon Hatch establishment is mentioned, with photos, and can now be visited. (My sister and her husband live just North of Brentwood, and it's quite amusing to see the tourist road signs directing people to "The Secret Nuclear Bunker" when I'm travelling to see them.)
I understand that these sites did have a caretaker living on site for much of the time.

The book mentioned above says nothing about the siren. Presumably it was to warn staff who might be taking a 'surface' break that they needed to return to the shelter immediately?
 

AlbertBeale

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Historic England/English Heritage published a book "Cold War - Building for Nuclear Confrontation 1946-1989" in 2003 with several reprints since. The Kelvendon Hatch establishment is mentioned, with photos, and can now be visited. (My sister and her husband live just North of Brentwood, and it's quite amusing to see the tourist road signs directing people to "The Secret Nuclear Bunker" when I'm travelling to see them.)
I understand that these sites did have a caretaker living on site for much of the time.

The book mentioned above says nothing about the siren. Presumably it was to warn staff who might be taking a 'surface' break that they needed to return to the shelter immediately?

In terms of a caretaker full time, I don't think so. When nuclear disarmament campaigners chanced upon one of the RSGs (RSG6, in a field in Berkshire, in the 1960s), they were able to get inside and copy documents in order to tell the world what was happening there precisely because it was just left unattended most of the time (albeit - badly - locked!). That turned out to be the pattern in that era.
 

Calthrop

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It still could have been the line's purpose, but in case of war/crisis only. Never used for that during peacetime (and then basically superfluous/unnecessary, as you explained) but maintained for wartime use (when it might have been essential). We had a lot of infrastructure like that over here in Germany during the Cold War.

Wondering prompted, whether this was particularly intensely the case around Fulda. I recall that in the latter decades of the Cold war, the pundits were forever blurb-ing on about the Fulda Gap, via which an initial Soviet land invasion would come. Didn't in the end happen; though IIRC some of those in-their-own-eyes-omniscient guys talked about it as "when" rather than "if". Didn't occur in that particular facing-off, anyway -- and fallings-out with present-day Russia would seem likely to happen geographically elsewhere. Nowadays, I keep having to consult the atlas for reminding as to whether Fulda was just in West, or East, Germany (it's the former).
 

Journeyman

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I heard from somewhere, that the Ongar branch of the Central Line was only kept open to allow civil servants to easily reach the Kelvedon Hatch nuclear bunker not far from Ongar-hence why the line closed in 1994 two years after the bunker closed. Is there any truth in this tale or is it just local folklore?

On top of what others have said, the line had an extremely infrequent service of short trains, which made it a fat lot of use if people needed to get there urgently - I'd have thought helicopters might be more likely.
 

Catracho

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Yes I would have thought Germany would have quite to stop and slow down Soviet invasions. Do you know of any particular examples?
Lots of very diverse stuff. Railway lines closed to traffic but reactivated/maintained at the request of NATO (and paid for by them), like the Vennquerbahn or the Wutachtalbahn. Seemingly oversized bridges/overpasses on small rural roads that were actually designed for heavy military traffic. Prepared crossing points over major rivers (Rhine, Weser, etc.) for ampibious vehicles/floating bridges. Additional capacity/equipment at major hospitals for wartime use only. 20 sections of Autobahn built for use as highway strips. Amongst DB's fleet of n-Wagen there were 200 modified examples (wider doors, power sockets, window blinds) for rapid conversion into ambulance carriages for the Bundeswehr - many of these are actually still around.
Almost all of this existed on the other side of the wall as well. There is a very interesting 250 page book (in German only) from Peter Bley about the Reichsbahn's role in East Germany's wartime preparations/plans and respective projects. Fascinating stuff.
 

Busaholic

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I worked as a traffic management trainee at Central Line control room at Argyle Street, Oxford Circus, for a few months in the early 1970s and got on well with the staff there, and I never heard tell of this. In any case, in later years Epping to Ongar only had a peak service. More likely to my sceptical mind for retention of the service would be a senior LT person (or even GLC person) living near the route, or, alternatively, having a mistress there!
 

robertclark125

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In 1989 an all day service was tried again albeit every 40 minutes. This was reduced again in 1991. Another thing to remember, the branch was electrified on the cheap. If it was maintained for the above purpose surely a more substantial electrification would've sufficed.
 

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I would have assumed that it would have required only a single three car unit, perhaps under the cover of darkness to move the required staff to the bunker quickly. Rather than move staff in timetabled operation. I suppose it would depend at what point the bunker would be staffed, seeing as I would assume the London Underground would be enirely suspended during the later stages of a third world war.

Would depend also how much bunker staff there would be. Wikipedia says there was capacity for "some hundreds". Which would suggest buses would be a better form of transport. I know that Kensington Olympia was going to be the meeting point for civil servants to be taken by train to the Corsham bunker. But of course that would be a full length train.
 

AlbertBeale

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In 1989 an all day service was tried again albeit every 40 minutes. This was reduced again in 1991. Another thing to remember, the branch was electrified on the cheap. If it was maintained for the above purpose surely a more substantial electrification would've sufficed.

The electricity supply was always a bit ropey - I seem to remember that if a train accelerated sharply the lights on one of the intermediate stations dimmed...
 

AlbertBeale

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I would have assumed that it would have required only a single three car unit, perhaps under the cover of darkness to move the required staff to the bunker quickly. Rather than move staff in timetabled operation. I suppose it would depend at what point the bunker would be staffed, seeing as I would assume the London Underground would be enirely suspended during the later stages of a third world war.

Would depend also how much bunker staff there would be. Wikipedia says there was capacity for "some hundreds". Which would suggest buses would be a better form of transport. I know that Kensington Olympia was going to be the meeting point for civil servants to be taken by train to the Corsham bunker. But of course that would be a full length train.

Aha - I hadn't heard that Olympia story before, though it makes some sense. What's the source of the information?
 

robertclark125

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The electricity supply was always a bit ropey - I seem to remember that if a train accelerated sharply the lights on one of the intermediate stations dimmed...

You're right. There was a restriction, as a result, that trains couldn't be more than 4 cars in length, due to the reduced power of the branch. Another reason for the closure was the introduction of the 1992 stock; all trains were only to be formed of 8 cars.
 

bramling

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I heard from somewhere, that the Ongar branch of the Central Line was only kept open to allow civil servants to easily reach the Kelvedon Hatch nuclear bunker not far from Ongar-hence why the line closed in 1994 two years after the bunker closed. Is there any truth in this tale or is it just local folklore?

I think it’s folklore.

Ultimately the line was electrified simply because it was there, and a decision had to be taken as to what to do with it. The electrification was very much on the cheap, being single-end fed from an existing substation, leading to severe voltage drop at the far end. Likewise oddities were retained like semaphore signals at North Weald, old signal boxes were retained, and earlier plans for a substation at Blake Hall never happened. The minimal nature of the electrification meant the cost was absolutely minimal.

Despite all this there was more than one closure attempt, although it was ultimately budget cuts in the 1990s combined with the Central Line modernisation which killed it.

Had it not had the limitation of single track, it would probably still be part of the Central Line today. Times are rather different now with much more housing in the area, in the 1990s even Epping only saw a train every 20 minutes off-peak.

I was lucky enough to travel to/from Ongar a small handful of times. Despite running in peak hours I remember the train being virtually empty. 1962 stock and the rural eastern end of the Central Line seemed to go together very well, although the red 1960 stock made themselves at home on the branch in the last few years. The ride on the branch was notable for being exceptionally rough even by LU standards of the time.
 

bramling

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I did ask someone involved in local politics in the area if extending the line back to Ongar was of any interest to the council. Apparently it was, but TfL are completely uninterested in the idea.

It's not surprising that TFL aren't interested. Apart from the fact that it lies rather outside their core area, the logistics of incorporating it as part of today's Central Line are quite involved. To do the job properly it would almost certainly be necessary to double the line all the way from Epping to Ongar. On top of the cost of providing power supply, signalling and all the other comms, there's also the problem of where they'd find trains to provide the service - with the Central Line already having to cut the service just to make ends meet with the existing service.

The alternative is to restore the old shuttle service, but again the first problem would be finding space at Epping to reverse it, which I think would be almost impossible with the existing infrastructure and service. Having overcome all the other issues including finding trains to run it, one is still only back to the old service frequency of once every 45 minutes or so, which from a passenger point of view was shown to be a major turn-off. Although the situation going into London wouldn't be too much of a problem, how many times are people going to tolerate being delayed on the way out to Epping and having to wait there for 30-40 minutes? Especially as there's almost certainly more car ownership in the area nowadays compared to when the shuttle was in operation.

The only way it might happen is the first of these scenarios, if someone local was prepared to pay the enormous cost of resolving all the obstacles. Realistically that someone isn't going to exist I don't think.
 

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There's also the issue of platform lengths at both North Weald and Ongar. The 1992 stock is entirely 8 coach trains on the Central Line; only the W&C version is 4 car, and even then, they're not compatible with the main Central line. It would probably require a new build of some 4 coach stock, which is likely to be uneconomic, unless you built a whole load of 4 coach trains for both the W&C, Ongar branch, and, if they so wished, the Isle of Wight.
 

30907

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There's also the issue of platform lengths at both North Weald and Ongar. The 1992 stock is entirely 8 coach trains on the Central Line; only the W&C version is 4 car, and even then, they're not compatible with the main Central line. It would probably require a new build of some 4 coach stock, which is likely to be uneconomic, unless you built a whole load of 4 coach trains for both the W&C, Ongar branch, and, if they so wished, the Isle of Wight.
Sounds like a job for a class 230 :)
I'm NOT serious - while there might be a bit of traffic at North Weald, I suspect the residents of Chipping Ongar would stick with driving to Brentwood.
 

Journeyman

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There was a restriction, as a result, that trains couldn't be more than 4 cars in length, due to the reduced power of the branch. Another reason for the closure was the introduction of the 1992 stock; all trains were only to be formed of 8 cars.

An eight-car test train of 1992 Stock ran to Ongar shortly before closure - I've seen a photo of it at North Weald. Apparently this was done to identify whether they'd work, and what issues would have to be resolved if permission to close the line was refused.
 

Journeyman

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I've just found some photos of the 1992 stock at both north weald and Ongar. I wonder what issues if any they encountered.

Unfortunately I've never come across anything, but the main ones would have been (a) power consumption and (b) platform length.

I think it's fair to assume that an 8-car 92 Stock train is rather more power-hungry than 3 or 4 cars of 1960 or 1962 Stock, so the trial was probably primarily to test whether the rather lightweight electrification kit could cope without tripping everything out or requiring very slow operation.

Apparently the electrification equipment was life-expired, and that was a key motivating factor in closure as replacing it wasn't financially justifiable. If the line had been kept, presumably it would have needed a power supply upgrade, platform extensions and ATO/ATP, the cost of which would have been astronomical in the light of the tiny number of passengers carried.
 

Journeyman

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Lovely. I went on it a few times in the 1980s. Glad I did too.

I managed it twice, once in early 1994, in the dark so I didn't get to see much, but I could see I was the only person in the carriage! Other time was on the penultimate day before closure, which for a while looked like it would be the last day trains actually ran, as a strike was scheduled, but was called off at the last minute. It was VERY busy on that occasion.

I rode it in preservation for the first time last year, and was impressed by what they've managed to achieve. It's the only heritage railway I've ridden in it's before-closure existence too.
 
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