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Military Vehicle Trains

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GusB

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Earlier on today while looking at RTT to see which services might be running with a HST between Inverness and Huntly, I came across this working:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00732/2019/08/14/advanced

When I saw this I initially assumed it would be something to do with the ongoing Aberdeen - Inverness improvements, but I was fairly surprised to find out that it was a couple of 66s top-and-tail with a load of military vehicles inbetween (66725 at the front). The starting point was Elgin Yard - would I be correct in assuming these came from Kinloss?

I'm guessing that military movements may be somewhat sensitive, and I would understand if specific details were on a "need to know basis", but a quick YouTube search brought up video of a similar working elsewhere in the country, so they're not exactly secret! Are such movements of military vehicles a regular thing?
 
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Freightmaster

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GusB said:
Are such movements of military vehicles a regular thing?
Click to expand...
No - they are entirely ad hoc; there hasn't been a movement from Elgin for example
for at least twenty years!

The only (sort of) regular destination is Redmire, but even those movements can be
18 months apart!



MARK
 
GusB

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It was certainly an unusual sight. My only regret is that I hadn't made enquiries before it departed, or I would have found somewhere with a slightly better view (rather than standing tiptoe on a shoogly pallet trying to peer over the back fence)!
 
Jamesrob637

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It's looped in Challow at the moment. Once the driver opens up out of there and gets a few miles down the line, he'll be singing

In the Challow, Challow
In the Challow, Challow
In the Challow, Challow
We're far from the Challow now

I'll get my coat :D
 
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Demetae

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I can remember going to see tanks being unloaded at Haverfordwest station when I was younger.
 
GusB

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DarloRich said:
are there army ranges up near Elgin?
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There aren't any ranges in the immediate area (as far as I know!), but the former RAF Kinloss is now a base for the Royal Engineers. I had assumed the vehicles had come from there, although I may be wrong.
 
Dr Hoo

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Handled quite a bit of MoD traffic back in the day. ‘Vehicles’ were often things like Land Rovers or light lorries, not armoured fighting vehicles.
 
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Only happened once, I think. A military train went to Cwmbargoed with vehicles for exercises in the Brecon Beacons.
 
Ben.A.98

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Local news coverage.

A huge convoy of military vehicles was loaded on a train yesterday as soldiers headed south to take part in a massive training exercise.

About 30 Land Rovers and Foxhounds, each in camouflage livery, were driven onto wagons in Elgin before a long trip by rail.

The large deployment from 3 Scots, The Black Watch 3rd Battalion, started arriving in groups in the Moray town at about 6am from their base at Fort George near Inverness.
Click to expand...
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...onto-train-in-moray-as-part-of-army-exercise/
 
3973EXL

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Not loaded MoD Vehicles for a few years now, so may not be fully up to date, but, for anybody interested the consists appears to be, 7 x RWMIK (Land Rovers), 17 x Foxhounds and 4 x Husky.
 
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LMS 4F

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Dr Hoo said:
Handled quite a bit of MoD traffic back in the day. ‘Vehicles’ were often things like Land Rovers or light lorries, not armoured fighting vehicles.
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I think Challenger Tanks would be out of gauge. When in BAOR many years ago Chieftain tanks went by train but the large searchlight had to be removed and getting the vehicle centred on the rail wagon was essential.This on continental gauge.
Light armoured vehicles, Scimitar and the like have been carried by rail in this country. However as we have a smaller Army now obviously there is less need to move vehicles about.
 
Llanigraham

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At one time military vehicle trains used to load at Llandeilo, for exercises on the Epynt Ranges.
 
3973EXL

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Challenger 2 MBT would be well out of gauge on NetworkRail, as would the wagon needed to convey it. Largest vehicle that can be moved is the Warrior AFV, FV510 & 511 only. They are OOG and only cleared for certain routes with no additions/modifications such as being up armoured.

Before Haverfordwest was used, Castle Martin traffic used Pembroke Dock. Although longer by road to Castle Martin, Haverfordwest can accept out of gauge traffic.
 
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DarloRich said:
seems sensible
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If you've read the P&J report by now you will see that they came from Fort George en route to exercises on Salisbury Plain, and that the loading, transport and unloading of the vehicles was part of the exercise.
 
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As ex Railfreight Contracts Manager for a year or so in the early 1980's , I can confirm the business was fairly robust for specials , - some very unusual ones such as Harwich to Nottingham (off the boat from Denmark) - Ramsgate to Pembroke Dock , Ramsgate to Inverness - the former being German vehicles , the latter Italian - both of which had 2 MK1 coaches for officers , staff and baggage) , and the piece de resistance - into Platfrom 1A at Paddington for Chelsea Barracks.

A good % went anonymously in standard Freightliner 30' containers.

Marchwood , Ludgershall and Warminster were quite busy places , but the traffic could never be categorised as regular. Ashchurch for light vehicles to German.
 
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etr221

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The British railway loading gauge was a design consideration for British tanks up until - roughly - the end of WW2 - I think the first tanks not to comply were those designed to have the 17-pounder gun - Centurian and Black Prince - the restricting factor was the turret ring diameter. I'm not sure about the Comet (77mm gun, based on 17-pdr). But I believe the Sherman Firefly (modified American design with 17-pdr squeezed in on its side) was ok.

World War 1 tanks had their sponsons retractable for rail travel.
 
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randyrippley

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The BAOR Challenger tanks for Gulf War 1 (and possibly 2) went from Germany to the Italian ports by rail. Who would have provided the rolling stock? And would it have gone through the tunnels?
 
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etr221

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AIUI provision of rolling stock, etc. for BAOR trains was by DB.

Are you referring to the Alpine tunnels? My thought is that from a loading gauge consideration, they wouldn't have presented a particular problem - if the train could have got to them, it could have got through.

But I don't know what the political issues might have been transiting Switzerland or Austria (neither in NATO) - perhaps they would have to have been routed round through France.
 
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Llanigraham said:
At one time military vehicle trains used to load at Llandeilo, for exercises on the Epynt Ranges.
Click to expand...

A job later done by Freightliner from Cardiff and Swansea FLT , I went upon a loading occasion as a trainee - very interesting experience all round , we had a shortfall of one container for some reason - no communication in those pre-mobile days , so a phone call had to be made.I had visions of a special helicopter to the nearest GPO phone box , but had a terrifying ride in a Landrover to a phone box, where from which assistance was summoned PDQ to be fair.

In passing - the FLL staff were fed by the military from field kitchens whilst the loading too place, they were very appreciative of it.

I remember the Sunday signing off the aforementioned Harwich train , (BR 29973 form) - quite an odd experience "going round" a train for pre-departure checks with an SLR toting soldier about 2 foot behind you. Ditto when the guard did his brake test etc.
 
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route101

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Interesting , i seen this train by surprise in a loop just past solihul i think the other day . How often do these trains run?
 
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route101 said:
Interesting , i seen this train by surprise in a loop just past solihul i think the other day . How often do these trains run?
Click to expand...

As in the past , they run "as required ,and according to need" - clearly not a regular move. As commented above. Quite rare.
 
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