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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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LNW-GW Joint

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Splitting hairs a bit there. Fact is directly or indirectly they are the beneficiaries, and as such our railways in part are run by companies on their behalf.
I'm not aware of any foreign government being in hoc to us. The walk away if it gets too much nature of our system seems all win win for the TOCs.

Well, you might ask the Dutch government about Scotrail (and maybe GA). Or Hong Kong about SWR.
It's risk or return, and it seems mostly risks on those franchises at the moment.
DB bailed out Chiltern and Cross Country for significant periods too.
 
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Muenchener

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I asked First what their intentions are w.r.t. the WCML First class lounges and now have a response to my question below:

Q: "Can I ask what your intended policy is regarding the WCML 1st class lounges?
Does the franchise intend to maintain, or even increase, the current number of lounges?"

A: "In terms of the First Class lounges operated by the West Coast Partnership franchise, we plan to refresh all the existing First Class lounges. In addition, we are introducing new First Class lounges at Rugby, Preston and Stockport."

On a personal level; the news of a lounge, finally, at Preston is excellent news as it is my home WCML stn.
 

Clip

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So let's embrace First Treitalia with open arms and hope they continue with the generally good job done by Virgin Stagecoach over the last 22 years. Hard act to follow!

No one is saying that at all - you are using hyperbole because your beloved Virgin are going to be no more,currently, on the WCML. What we are saying, is wait and see what happens because you never know

Splitting hairs a bit there.

But was a statement of fact.

I was just stating those are the monopoly 3, no i doubt they will be losing GWR anytime soon

You may not understand quite what a monopoly is but as I pointed out earlier they are not the sole operators to get you to Scotland from either london or the north west
 

Red1980

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I assume most of us are part of the British public. Most of us treat trains and other public property with respect. Been reading the Daily Mail have you?

No thanks. I've got my own mind and own experiences. I'll leave mainstream media to people like you.
 

6Gman

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I asked First what their intentions are w.r.t. the WCML First class lounges and now have a response to my question below:

Q: "Can I ask what your intended policy is regarding the WCML 1st class lounges?
Does the franchise intend to maintain, or even increase, the current number of lounges?"

A: "In terms of the First Class lounges operated by the West Coast Partnership franchise, we plan to refresh all the existing First Class lounges. In addition, we are introducing new First Class lounges at Rugby, Preston and Stockport."

On a personal level; the news of a lounge, finally, at Preston is excellent news as it is my home WCML stn.

Enhanced First Class Lounges and new TVMs seem to be the limit of their ambition for most locations.

Of little use to those of us who travel Standard Class and use booking offices.
 

RealTrains07

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I asked First what their intentions are w.r.t. the WCML First class lounges and now have a response to my question below:

Q: "Can I ask what your intended policy is regarding the WCML 1st class lounges?
Does the franchise intend to maintain, or even increase, the current number of lounges?"

A: "In terms of the First Class lounges operated by the West Coast Partnership franchise, we plan to refresh all the existing First Class lounges. In addition, we are introducing new First Class lounges at Rugby, Preston and Stockport."

On a personal level; the news of a lounge, finally, at Preston is excellent news as it is my home WCML stn.
I dont see why rugby and stafford for that matter are still West Coast Partnership stations, not nearly as many trains stop their compared to LNR ones
 

The Ham

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I dont see why rugby and stafford for that matter are still West Coast Partnership stations, not nearly as many trains stop their compared to LNR ones

Although it does lead to the question, would they bother if they were considering look to cut significantly services to such locations following the opening of HS2?
 

driver_m

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@StaffsWCML seems to have a very favourable opinion of the high management at VT. What are you basing this on? What you see from releases and the media in general or actual knowledge of them?
 

Jurg

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I asked First what their intentions are w.r.t. the WCML First class lounges and now have a response to my question below:

Q: "Can I ask what your intended policy is regarding the WCML 1st class lounges?
Does the franchise intend to maintain, or even increase, the current number of lounges?"

A: "In terms of the First Class lounges operated by the West Coast Partnership franchise, we plan to refresh all the existing First Class lounges. In addition, we are introducing new First Class lounges at Rugby, Preston and Stockport."

On a personal level; the news of a lounge, finally, at Preston is excellent news as it is my home WCML stn.
I had an email from VTWC only about 3 weeks ago, saying that the Coventry 1st Class Lounge is closing, and being refurbished into a lounge "for all customers to enjoy". I wonder if this is still the case.
 

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kidman123

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A couple wee thoughts I haven't really read the full conversation sorry but just a few thoughts. On the class 221 which first treitalia will these be cascaded into other first operations if not I'd like to see scotrail purchase these and use on the Dundee Perth to Edinburgh Glasgow routes or even the inter7city routes and then they can cut down the amount of HST they currently don't have. But that's for a different conversation.

On the bi mode trains there Talkin about as the 221 voyager has tilting mechanism will the bi modes have these as if not this could up the times it takes for example from London to Glasgow it takes say 4hrs tilt but without it could take 4.5-5 hrs
 

hexagon789

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On the bi mode trains there Talkin about as the 221 voyager has tilting mechanism will the bi modes have these as if not this could up the times it takes for example from London to Glasgow it takes say 4hrs tilt but without it could take 4.5-5 hrs

The new fleets aren't planned to run to Glasgow, but rather the likes of Birmingham/Liverpool/Blackpool and North Wales, so while non-tilt ones would increase journey times a bit, it wouldn't be by quite as much as on Euston-Glasgow.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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The bi-modes are for Euston-Birmingham/Liverpool/Blackpool, so while non-tilt ones would increase journey times a bit, it wouldn't be by quite as much as on Euston-Glasgow.

Don't you mean Euston-Chester/Llandudno/Wrexham/Holyhead/Shrewsbury?
Won't Liverpool/Blackpool get the EMUs (or some shuffle round of other electric services)?
Bi-modes could have been needed on services to Scotland which extend beyond the wires (eg Stirling, Perth, Inverness), but it seems we are not having any of those.
 

hexagon789

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Don't you mean Euston-Chester/Llandudno/Wrexham/Holyhead/Shrewsbury?
Won't Liverpool/Blackpool get the EMUs (or some shuffle round of other electric services)?

Apologies that is what I meant.

Essentially I meant to say the new fleets aren't planned to run to Glasgow.
 

TrainTube

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As a user of South Western railway, its a shame that First are taking over Virgin. When first took over the south western franchise, I was quite happy as south west trains needed a change. But so far First haven't delivered much, some Desiros have a different interior, many of the 159s have new livery but old interior, and the 442s planned for May 2018 still haven't gone into service yet.
Virgin on the other hand was a good operator, and I think First might ruin its legacy. The new idea of calls at Motherwell is not a good idea, Motherwell already gets some morning and afternoon services, calling at Motherwell will make the service slower by at least 10 minutes, as I doubt the Pendolinos will go over 100mph between there and Glasgow, and the calls will have to fit in with Scotrail suburban services. Knowing First, the refurbishment will take ages, not to mention First aren't in the best financial state, and many of the networker turbos at GWR still haven't been refurbished. The new units will probably not come into service until 2022 aswell.
The Dft might have made another stupid decision that will worsen train services for passengers, but I hope that First Trenitalia will do as good of a job as Virgin, Trenitalia has run the c2c quite well, so hopefully the same can be done here.
Trenitalia and the Pendolinos are a good combo!
 

Darandio

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The new idea of calls at Motherwell is not a good idea, Motherwell already gets some morning and afternoon services, calling at Motherwell will make the service slower by at least 10 minutes, as I doubt the Pendolinos will go over 100mph between there and Glasgow, and the calls will have to fit in with Scotrail suburban services.

There is no way a Motherwell call will reduce the time by 10 minutes and the maximum speed between the two is 90mph anyway.
 
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I think I mentioned in another post that for at least the last 10 years there has been nothing Virgin like about the service as it just plods on daily. If that deteriorates you know it will be down to management change, I imagine most current staff will be disappointed as Virgin must be one of the more humane employers on the network. First appear to have a fairly positive 22 year culture to grapple with , and to screw this up when the franchise is engaged to HS2 (wedding not booked yet)I can't imagine the DFT will want the aggro or bad PR.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Maybe they'll become the ROSCO for the new fleet ;) (would be their first time I think?)

Being as NatWest are (or were) owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), RBS also owned one of the unholy trinity of the ROSCOs.

RBS were one of the banks that were bailed out when the global economic crisis happened in 2008, with the government having missed a trick by taking ownership of the ROSCO as a condition for being bailed out at the time.

Better still, the UK Government could have done what the Icelandic government did, by bailing out the people and sending the bankers who caused the economic crisis to jail.

I have started a new thread in the General Discussion section for others to expand further on this.
 

RealTrains07

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as I pointed out earlier they are not the sole operators to get you to Scotland from either london or the north west
Considering LNER is the only other operator except first that operates services from london to scotland, its not much competition for them. Far as i was aware first has services from the north west to scotland covered. Last time i checked northern doesn’t go to scotland and scotrail doesn’t go down that far either:lol:
 

Master29

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So much negativity in this thread.

1. The DfT do not get involved with TOC-specified rolling stock, end of. DfT influence ends with the capacity requirements set out at ITT stage.
2. Each franchise is a completely different business to the other, so drawing parallels generally doesn't mean anything. TPE for example has faced significant challenges including delivering a DfT-mandated train service pushing the network to its limits, delays from rolling stock manufacturers and infrastructure delays. GWR has been on endless short term direct awards which do not create the environment to invest. SWR has clearly been a challenge, but some of the issues regarding performance are out of their control, and indeed performance was declining at the end of SWT - read the Holden report. Hull Trains have suffered severe rolling stock problems, but have been resourceful in sourcing a temporary HST solution.
3. The front line people who run the trains today for Virgin, will run the trains tomorrow for First.
4. We are now in a 10-day standstill after which I would expect more details of FT's plans, dismissing that 'First won't do this or that' is completely unfounded speculation. 5. This is a premier Intercity franchise which has been let competitively, revenue is highly discretionary so if the service worsens, passengers will vote with their wallets and travel by alternative means.

The repetitive copy and paste bashing of First, and for some reason Abellio which is not related at all to WCP, is tiresome and frankly isn't about WCP being awarded, it's just a personal vent.
Spend a few weeks as a regular user with GWR and you might well change a few of those points;).
 

hexagon789

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As a user of South Western railway, its a shame that First are taking over Virgin. When first took over the south western franchise, I was quite happy as south west trains needed a change. But so far First haven't delivered much, some Desiros have a different interior, many of the 159s have new livery but old interior, and the 442s planned for May 2018 still haven't gone into service yet.
Virgin on the other hand was a good operator, and I think First might ruin its legacy. The new idea of calls at Motherwell is not a good idea, Motherwell already gets some morning and afternoon services, calling at Motherwell will make the service slower by at least 10 minutes, as I doubt the Pendolinos will go over 100mph between there and Glasgow, and the calls will have to fit in with Scotrail suburban services. Knowing First, the refurbishment will take ages, not to mention First aren't in the best financial state, and many of the networker turbos at GWR still haven't been refurbished. The new units will probably not come into service until 2022 aswell.
The Dft might have made another stupid decision that will worsen train services for passengers, but I hope that First Trenitalia will do as good of a job as Virgin, Trenitalia has run the c2c quite well, so hopefully the same can be done here.
Trenitalia and the Pendolinos are a good combo!

Maximum is not that high Motherwell-Glasgow (80-90 iirc), and the calls would likely go into the slower via Birmingham services than the Euston fasts. Even if they went into the fasts I don't see about 3 mins making much of a difference to passengers really.
 

Clip

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Considering LNER is the only other operator except first that operates services from london to scotland, its not much competition for them. Far as i was aware first has services from the north west to scotland covered. Last time i checked northern doesn’t go to scotland and scotrail doesn’t go down that far either:lol:


As i mentioned to you earlier - you can get a Northern train to Carlisle and a Scotrail train from there over the border
 

Muenchener

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I had an email from VTWC only about 3 weeks ago, saying that the Coventry 1st Class Lounge is closing, and being refurbished into a lounge "for all customers to enjoy". I wonder if this is still the case.
Interesting; however I can't see VTWC committing funding with little chance of completion by franchise end. So maybe the Coventry plan will just die quietly.
It would seem that First are placing emphasis on the future of these lounges; given there is an intention to increase the number of them and to carry out a refurb programme on the existing facilities.
 

PR1Berske

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Interesting; however I can't see VTWC committing funding with little chance of completion by franchise end. So maybe the Coventry plan will just die quietly.
It would seem that First are placing emphasis on the future of these lounges; given there is an intention to increase the number of them and to carry out a refurb programme on the existing facilities.
I can't be sure where the new First Class Lounge would be placed here in Preston.
 

RAPC

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I can't be sure where the new First Class Lounge would be placed here in Preston.

Plenty of room. When VTWC looked at it a few years ago, they were looking at a location further down the southern end of platforms 3 and 4.
 
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