Alexbus12
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Best Impressions
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TheGrandWazoo
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Didn't think that would interest people on a forum about transport ngl
I think you underestimate yourself. You’re employed in transport?? Or design?
Fryschocream
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Probably still at school
TheGrandWazoo
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Stan Drews
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I notice that a lot of the ‘enthusiasts’ that have a dislike for Ray/BI’s work, often make derogatory references regarding his clothing choices. If he chose to wear a shirt and tie and regular trousers, I wonder if they would view his work differently?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
We all have our opinions. To my mind, it just seems that some enthusiasts take a view that doesn’t reflect the realities of life. The livery is only one part of any brand - it extends across printed media, website design (desktop and mobile), social media, internal vehicle promotion AND design. Many more facets.
Also, as Phil rightly points out, there are design cues and principles that are known to work. Coupled with vehicle designs and other practical considerations, there will undoubtedly be similarities in liveries. That doesn’t mean it’s cut and paste - that’s missing the point. It also ignores all the other elements listed above.
I’ve not met Ray AFAIK (and I’m sure I’d remember if I had) but I know people who have. Ray is genuinely knowledgable and enthusiastic and when people say it’s “another dialled in design”, it illustrates that they have no idea or insight into the work that goes on with BI and the client.
We all have our opinions. I’m not a great fan of the new East Yorkshire livery and I’m sure there’s others that people like or dislike. That’s a fair opinion. Slating someone’s work through a lack of insight seems a tad unfair IMO.
Alexbus12
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Alexbus12
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I'd never criticise what he's wears, that's totally up to him, I'm just not a fan of all of his work, which is probably well known on this forum now
I'm sorry but I think the current bus liveries look daft
In North Leeds when I was a kid, there were green LCT buses and red West Yorkshire buses. People knew which undertaking the bus was from long before the bus got to the stop.
I see the odd bus painted in the old liveries and they look far better to me.
Orange and black Pennine Motors
Orange and Green Halifax corporation
Blue East Yorkshire
But I will pass on the horrid yellow buses running south from Newcastle. Ugh!
But then I am just an old luddite who hankers after he old back loaders!
In North Leeds when I was a kid, there were green LCT buses and red West Yorkshire buses. People knew which undertaking the bus was from long before the bus got to the stop.
I see the odd bus painted in the old liveries and they look far better to me.
Orange and black Pennine Motors
Orange and Green Halifax corporation
Blue East Yorkshire
But I will pass on the horrid yellow buses running south from Newcastle. Ugh!
But then I am just an old luddite who hankers after he old back loaders!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I'm not, but what would that have to do with the price of fish if I were
As I said earlier....
That’s the relevance of your experience/job.
Does he need to justify why he doesn't like Best Impressions liveries etc? There's a few of Best Impressions liveries that I'm not keen on and some that I think work really well. Personally I'm not keen on the Go North West livery as it looks more or less identical to Rosso livery except for the colours. That's my opinion and I am in no way required to justify it to you or any one else. You clearly have a problem with people who have a different opinion than yours.
peterblue
Member
Go North West isn't a best impressions livery.
I'd read elsewhere that it was, my mistake.
RustySpoons
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It was a Manchester based company called 'We Are Buzz' that came up with the GNW effort. Very similar to Transdevs generic livery which has been the cause of much discussion, including Alex Hornby asking them publicly on Twitter if other Greater Manchester operators livery was taken into account when they were designing it. The basic answer to that was 'no'.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Oh dear
I don’t have an issue with people who have differing opinions, and you are entitled to dislike a livery. However, that isn’t the point. Even Mr Stenning would concede that.
It’s denigrating someone’s work on the basis that it’s some lazy retreading of a previous job when, if someone had real insight, they’d know that is bovine.
I’m not keen on the EY livery but not because I erroneously think it’s some microwaving of previous work.
bussnapperwm
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IIRC London Midland was a BI project (even including their timetable leaflets)
I believe so
Along with all Trent Barton stuff, all Transdev Blazefield stuff, Buses of Somerset, the new stuff that is coming out of EYMS and the ‘X Lines’ at Go North East.
Reading Buses, some First Bristol leaflets such as Discover and Excel, some Stagecoach stuff, some Arriva like some North East’s Max and Sapphire leaflets, Cheshire Cat at Warrington’s Own Buses.
Some areas of Go South Coast such as Southern Vectis?
tbtc
Veteran Member
I think "enthusiasts" seem to have a problem with anyone trying to improve things - See also Hornby, Alex.
From the moaning you get on some threads, you'd think that Best Impressions were running a scam, and all of these poor operators had been duped by a duplicitous organisation that simply repeated exactly the same livery over and over again (which no client had ever noticed before)!
I mean, it might be that he does such a good job that people go into their relationships with him knowing what he is capable of and asking for something broadly similar. It may even be that there are only a finite number of designs that you can paint a bus before it starts to look mildly similar to another livery with a bit of green in it used by an operator a hundred miles away, or that certain styles are fairly trendy at the moment (a general swoosh from the rear of the vehicle and patterns of similar colours below the downstairs windows that give the impression of a dynamic vehicle)?
The fact that Stenning gets criticised on here for liveries that he hasn't even designed suggests that the level of criticism on here isn't particularly serious.
Also... you're not going to go to the best in the business, famous for his interesting design, and be happy if he tells you to settle on a nice traditional livery of a drab colour like maroon (or navy or olive-green or some other uninspiring "corporation" colours) with some cream around the windows (only in nice straight simple horizontal lines), like in the good old days...
If it was that simple (to design something that brought in the big bucks) then everyone with access to Microsoft Paint would be doing it.
From the moaning you get on some threads, you'd think that Best Impressions were running a scam, and all of these poor operators had been duped by a duplicitous organisation that simply repeated exactly the same livery over and over again (which no client had ever noticed before)!
I mean, it might be that he does such a good job that people go into their relationships with him knowing what he is capable of and asking for something broadly similar. It may even be that there are only a finite number of designs that you can paint a bus before it starts to look mildly similar to another livery with a bit of green in it used by an operator a hundred miles away, or that certain styles are fairly trendy at the moment (a general swoosh from the rear of the vehicle and patterns of similar colours below the downstairs windows that give the impression of a dynamic vehicle)?
The fact that Stenning gets criticised on here for liveries that he hasn't even designed suggests that the level of criticism on here isn't particularly serious.
Also... you're not going to go to the best in the business, famous for his interesting design, and be happy if he tells you to settle on a nice traditional livery of a drab colour like maroon (or navy or olive-green or some other uninspiring "corporation" colours) with some cream around the windows (only in nice straight simple horizontal lines), like in the good old days...
If it was that simple (to design something that brought in the big bucks) then everyone with access to Microsoft Paint would be doing it.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
There’s some more First examples such as Worcester with Salt Road and Nimrod, and a number of more general stuff with Eastern Counties.
Do you have examples that illustrate this?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Didn't he do one of the azuma liveries?
njlawley
Member
Vectis, Bluestar, Swindonbus, More and the new Salisbury Reds liveries.
The More m1/m2 and X3 variants, Unibus and Unilink are not BI designs.
fgwrich
Established Member
Indeed, and to me it still remains one of his best brands and designs. Stenning's team even went as far as designing the timetables and posters (I believe it was a whole package deal with them). On the bus side, I do agree with the original OP that some of his designs are a little samey, East Yorkshire's new scheme to me is very reminiscent of Brighton and Hove (another Go Ahead business and BI Design). I've noticed that the typeface is standard Best Impressions too - Used on anything from Virgin Trains East Coast, to Stagecoach, Southern Vectis and London Midland. This is no criticism, and if it works then it works, but sometimes a little change from the norm would be nice to see.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
LM was an average TOC at best, but I think their whole marketing package was the best I have ever seen by any TOC and makes WMT look utterly amateurish.
Busaholic
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Someone refresh my memory please - when Best Impressions were first deservedly attracting attention and contracts there was a competing firm doing similar innovative work that also got a lot of work from bus companies, but I totally forget their name. I'm pretty sure they no longer exist, as I've not seen them mentioned in ages.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Exactly what I was getting at.
That's the sort of criticism that I'm sure Best Impressions can deal with. Yes there are similarities. Not everyone will like each brand - I'm not too sold on the East Yorkshire, and I really didn't like the Wilts and Dorset red and blue one that GA introduced - think that was a BI one. However, it's a bit of a difference from saying they just do the same old stuff (CTRL/ALT/I) and then print the invoice.
Here's another one https://thebeautyoftransport.com/20...e-midland-mainline-visual-identity-1996-2004/ The old Midland Mainline was a corker of a brand, and when you read this article, you suddenly realise that thought that goes into the brand, and it is usually the brand (NOT just a livery).
Man of Kent
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I think the liveries that replaced Yorkshire Rider, and the first Travel West Midlands version, were by Lawrence & Pierce. They do still exist, and claim involvement with National Express, Greyhound, Translink and Trentbarton.
I’m have to agree that London Midland in terms of the livery, and the brand was great, and WMT/WMR/LNWR is just a mess in comparison.
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