Kite159
Veteran Member
Or maybe Bombardier are throwing in an extra 710 for free as compensation for the delays. It's happened in the past with the 334s in Scotland
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Class 710 LO
- Thread starter AlanFry1
- Start date
Or maybe Bombardier are throwing in an extra 710 for free as compensation for the delays. It's happened in the past with the 334s in Scotland
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simple simon
Member
An excellent idea - but for higher speeds (would 60 mph be sufficient?) the track would need upgrading. If this could be funded then it would be attractive to passengers!
Also, what the line needs are some stations where it passes below roads. But this might prevent the service frequency from being increased. Perhaps the greater acceleration of the new trains would help here too.
delticdave
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Isn't the branch restricted to 30 mph? As for stations at the overbridges, there might be problems re. the o/head, it's grounded under the bridges. (Difficult to lower the roads so the wires are continuous but without electricity with neutral sections either side of each bridge. The power supply is continuous but via insulated cables rather than live o/heads.) If stations were to be provided, trains might stall under the bridges.
If you were to build a new station, surely building a new station with a passing loop or two platforms would be the solution to all the service frequency issues you'd ever imagine.
I wonder if the passenger volume actually will go up after Crossrail. It seems like it might be an attractive route choice for customers on c2c trains aiming further west than the city.
Intellectual98
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Yep, 30mph the whole way. Improved acceleration over the 315 will make minimal difference at such low top speeds. For a 4 minute turn around you would need 2 drivers due to minimum turnaround times, one would have to drive each way, but that still doesn't leave a lot of time to use the toilet.
Intellectual98
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Adding a passing loop or double track platforms would need the whole route to be signalled. Currently as there's only ever one train allowed on it there's only one signal to worry about.
reddragon
Established Member
The are also multiple foot crossings with no added safety features to consider
The Romford shuttle and Greenford Branch over in the West both have scope to become relatively busy feeder lines to crossrail, they're both in theory really useful lines but 2tph just doesn't go down too well in London when the service isn't supplemented by another 2tph route that diverges later on etc so passengers are put off. Crossrail is turn up and go frequencies, and 3tph would somewhat help the line reach that especially when it's kind of feasible with a few tweaks.
As for extra stations, one where the line crosses Brentwood Road may be considered slightly too close to Gidea Park and that road already had 3 different bus routes to Romford and the majority of people wanting the District Line would likely want locations where they could just take Crossrail to Whitechapel and change there.
As for a station by Wingletye Lane although this is near Upminster Bridge, it may be feasible as it would provide a link to Crossrail however people could do what I said above in reverse and change at Whitechapel also. Apologies off topic.
As for an on topic matter, quoted from Romford Recorder
I doubt TFL will keep a single 710 with a different seating layout to the rest unless they wanted to dedicate one unit to this line.
Mikey C
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Surely that isn't correct UNLESS the West Anglia 710s also have mixed seating, and wasn't that ruled out?
CapitalStar378
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I hope they've had a change of heart, I really don't think the Lea Valley lines are suitable for longitudinal seating, some of the journeys are way too long.
20atthemagnet
Member
They dont.
aswilliamsuk
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Part of the Housing Investment Fund awards (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/600-million-boost-for-housing). Connected to an enormous housing/etc development at Canada Water and also around Bermondsey/Surrey Quays (https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/20...-and-a-new-station-for-the-london-overground/), it means 4tph to 6tph on Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction services through Canada Water (so in other words increasing from 16tph to 20tph through the Thames Tunnel). Also sees power upgrades, stabling upgrades, signalling upgrades and the Surrey Canal Road station fitted out (although apparently named New Bermondsey now!).
There's going to have to be more 710s from the options already in place, I would have thought - presumably to cascade more 378s from the NLL/WLL across to the ELL (as IIRC the 710s aren't approved for the ELL?). The 378s freed up when the Watford DC lines go 710 - IIRC - will allow a frequency uptick (again!) on the NLL/WLL to 10tph from the current 8tph (so Richmond and Clapham Jct get 5tph each), or at least that's what I recall was meant to happen. The lines certainly need it.
Quite some change from shabby 313s running every 20 minutes through grotty, unsupervised stations on the NLL to the line bursting at the seams now...
swt_passenger
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The present 710 orders (especially the 6 x 5 car 710s for the NLL) already allow for transferring 8 x 378s to the ELL for the additional services there to get up to 20 tph. It’s done this way because ELL stock must have the end doors in the cabs.
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K.o.R
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I was able to take a ride on a 710 on the GOBLIN last week. Those doors are very strange. Very motor-y. Remind me of the mechanism on Voyagers, but without the tilting door.
Who designed the door controls, because they make no sense.
Doors enabled - door open button lights green. So far, so normal.
Door close button lights red when you press it... and does nothing.
When doors are closing the door open buttons flash red. What?
Who designed the door controls, because they make no sense.
Doors enabled - door open button lights green. So far, so normal.
Door close button lights red when you press it... and does nothing.
When doors are closing the door open buttons flash red. What?
Sounds like the door close option is currently software disabled. It will auto close after a while any way so no real reason to have it in use.
The flashing red (something not necessarily door buttons) accompanying closing doors will become much more common on new stock, having the open button flash red is actually quite clever as it should discourage people from trying to exit while the doors are closing and shows that the open function is disabled more obviously than just the green LEDs no longer showing.
K.o.R
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Electrostars and Desiros flash the door close button when the doors are closing (Desiros only when the final close is occurring). The door open buttons are unlit when the doors are open or finally closing. These all make perfect sense as the door open function is disabled.
The Civity units have a red light above the door that flashes when the door is closing, similar to the Paris metro units.
That is excellent news for those of us further down the ELL, even though the capacity is intended for the new developments, more seats for us!
The existing 710 order includes enough stock to allow cascades of 378s to cover 20tph, more than that would need more 710 option to be taken up.
a) 4 car Dual Voltage 710s allow 378s cascaded from DC lines to ELL/NLL/WLL dual voltage pool
b) 5 car Dual Voltage 710s cover all planned NLL service uplift and release another (1x) 378 from NLL services to ELL/NLL/WLL dual voltage pool
Net effect is an extra 7x 378s available for use on ELL.
The extra 2tph to Palace will be the first to happen as stock becomes available. The refurb programme need to be caught up on first...
The original plan before the "keep a 315 plan" * was that Rominster would get one of the AC only West Anglia 710s on rotation which had the dual seating layout at that time presumably they still think the West Anglia ones have mixed seating and haven't picked up on the seating change which TfL haven't shouted from the hilltops about!
hence easy to see where mis-information has come from?
*a) that always seemed to be a short term one while the 710s bed and go down the bath tub curve so improved reliably generates an extra unit
b) was slight deft of hand when Barking Riverside extension was proposed and they needed an extra unit to make the timetable work so they effectively reallocated the Rominster unit to Barking Riverside extension to make the extension costs work at the time - given the layover time at either end of GOBLIN, the extra rolling stock requirement for Barking Riverside might actually not be needed if they can recast the timetable and have proved much better 710 performance for new timing loads during testing...
There have been a few incidents over the last decade that highlight the need to make it more obvious than the current "passive" electrostar/desiro default of no indication to a more "active" one highlighting than the open button is disabled at that point in time.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Someone has clearly never worked on a railway. All common sense tends to go out of the window the moment people step foot into stations.
People are still used to some older stock with pneumatic door operation that had no LEDs at all and would sometimes still respond when doors were closing...
And that is a big part of it...
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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Amongst other things the ORR report also confirms again, (as was noted a few months ago), in their attached list of vehicle and unit numbers that there is a 710270 in the 18 dual voltage units. Presumably there is one less AC unit now - the one that was originally destined for Romford?
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...n-bombardier-class-710-2-units-2019-08-14.pdf
(I thought about trying to edit the Wikipedia article which still explains 17, (for DC and Goblin combined), with a gap in the number sequence, but I can’t make head nor tail of the script used for the table...)
PS
Seems to be edited now so thanks if that person had noticed the above.
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...n-bombardier-class-710-2-units-2019-08-14.pdf
(I thought about trying to edit the Wikipedia article which still explains 17, (for DC and Goblin combined), with a gap in the number sequence, but I can’t make head nor tail of the script used for the table...)
PS
Seems to be edited now so thanks if that person had noticed the above.
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I have certainly come across people who really don't get the whole concept of icons or colours having consistent meanings. Just because a green traffic light means go they don't see that it follows that the use of the colour elsewhere implies the same meaning.