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Class 345 progress

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700007

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What’s the reasoning behind only starting these 9 car runs in the evening? Is it something to do with limited platform availability for the longer train at Paddington?
Since the timetable change, I must be right in thinking that all TfL Rail services are booked to use platform 11 and 12 all day so it should not pose an issue.

I think it's more to do with taking precautionary measures but I am happy to be corrected. Obviously the 9-cars haven't had as much airtime as their 7-car counterparts and sitting around with very low usage, coupled with new technology makes them vulnerable to breaking down quite easily. Sending it out after evening peak avoids any incidents happening which can affect either peak, so the impact of any potential disruption will be less felt across the network.
 
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hwl

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Since the timetable change, I must be right in thinking that all TfL Rail services are booked to use platform 11 and 12 all day so it should not pose an issue.

I think it's more to do with taking precautionary measures but I am happy to be corrected. Obviously the 9-cars haven't had as much airtime as their 7-car counterparts and sitting around with very low usage, coupled with new technology makes them vulnerable to breaking down quite easily. Sending it out after evening peak avoids any incidents happening which can affect either peak, so the impact of any potential disruption will be less felt across the network.
Probably for a fair number of reasons...

While TfL rail services might be booked to use P11/12 it might be hard achieve that if there is disruption during the peak hence off peak and the evening is the easiest option.

Soft introduction on less crowded services is the way to go.
 

kevin_roche

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Confirmation that the 9 car units are being used in the latest monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport committee has been published on the TfL website.

In July we were able to successfully introduce the first nine car (full-length) train on TfL Rail passenger services in the west between Hayes & Harlington and Paddington. This is an important step in operating the full length trains which will be used for future opening stages of TfL Rail and the Elizabeth line.We are still on course for TfL Rail to start operating the stopping services from Paddington to Reading in December this year (known as Stage 5A). We plan to use the nine-car trains, extending the service from Hayes & Harlington to Reading but there is also a contingency plan if software updates mean that we have to run the seven-car trains. TfL Rail already staff 11 stations between Acton Main Line and Taplow (excluding Slough) as TfL Rail stations after taking over the running of these from Great Western Railway (GWR) in December 2017.

It seems to me that in the event that the CCTV is not complete they plan to use station staff to check that nobody is trapped in a door. I don't know what changes in staff are planned ast the stations move from GWR to TfL control. Are the staff they have will be trained to do that?
 

kevin_roche

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On "proper" full current spec ETCS units all the signalling interactions have to go via the ETCS computer including the Siemens Trainguard CBTC, AWS and TPWS which all have new plug in modules known as Specific Transmission Modules* (STM) rather than directly between the specific on train and off train equipment that happened historically as ETCS needs to know which system is being used at all times and with the ETCS computer directing what the TMS does. Hence 7 car has been set up as not having the ETCS computer in the middle of everything but 9 car has. This is also the first time Siemens has had a TrainguardMT STM installation layered on top of ETCS rather than directly as on previous installations.

There is more on the 9 Car units software in Mark Wild's latest monthly report to the London Assembly Transport Committee.

Safety approval was obtained in July to proceed with close-headway, multi-train testing with the latest software configuration (PD+8), that was mentioned in my last update. At present this is in ‘standalone’ mode which means that the other signalling systems including ETCS will be isolated.

Because of the scale ofthe changes to the software configuration, only 26 of the previously passed tests were carried-over as passed with PD+8. These mainly related to radio coverage and balise (electronic beacon) positioning tests. Of the tests undertaken since the new release was introduced, 19 have passed, bringing the total up to 45.

However, some tests of auto-reverse functionality have failed and there have also been a number of failures with platform screen door tests. These failures are currently being investigated and a fix for the platform screen doors is currently in the process of being implemented. Testing of the current train and signalling software configurations has also continued at the Crossrail Integration Facility (CIF) in Chippenham. Of 106 test scenarios capable of being executed at the CIF with the current configurations, all have now been attempted, with 60 passing.

The next Siemens software configuration (PD+9) was also developed and available for rig testing as planned on 29 July. The software configuration that follows this (PD+10) is important as it is the software version that is intended to be used at the point where the project moves to Trial Running.

Does "Standalone" mean that the 9 car units on passenger service are being operated in a mode similar to the 7 car units?
 

hwl

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There is more on the 9 Car units software in Mark Wild's latest monthly report to the London Assembly Transport Committee.



Does "Standalone" mean that the 9 car units on passenger service are being operated in a mode similar to the 7 car units?
The software being talked about (PD+8) is the TrainGuard MT signalling software rather than train software, the standalone comment refers to it not interfacing with other signalling systems and focusing on Trainguard MT issues.

Most of the 9 car trains are on different software to what is being tested and tweaked in the core.
 

kevin_roche

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The software being talked about (PD+8) is the TrainGuard MT signalling software rather than train software, the standalone comment refers to it not interfacing with other signalling systems and focusing on Trainguard MT issues.

Most of the 9 car trains are on different software to what is being tested and tweaked in the core.
Thank you for clarifying the situation.
 

Non Multi

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Confirmation that the 9 car units are being used in the latest monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport committee has been published on the TfL website.



It seems to me that in the event that the CCTV is not complete they plan to use station staff to check that nobody is trapped in a door. I don't know what changes in staff are planned as the stations move from GWR to TfL control. Are the staff they have will be trained to do that?

As most of the 345 DOO cameras are either now in place, being installed, or installed very soon, I don't expect this to be a problem. Stations such as Slough, Maidenhead and Reading have always had train dispatchers anyway.
 

Goldfish62

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As most of the 345 DOO cameras are either now in place, being installed, or installed very soon, I don't expect this to be a problem. Stations such as Slough, Maidenhead and Reading have always had train dispatchers anyway.
How's that going to work with dispatchers? The driver is sat in the middle-ish of the cab and the only way he/she can see the platform, inc the dispatcher is through the CCTV, which won't have any images if no cameras are installed.
 

Non Multi

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How's that going to work with dispatchers? The driver is sat in the middle-ish of the cab and the only way he/she can see the platform, inc the dispatcher is through the CCTV, which won't have any images if no cameras are installed.
I'm expecting that the DOO cameras will be ready for December so there won't be any need for dispatchers. If MTR require a fall back method using train dispatchers, that's for them to work out.
 

Fincra5

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How's that going to work with dispatchers? The driver is sat in the middle-ish of the cab and the only way he/she can see the platform, inc the dispatcher is through the CCTV, which won't have any images if no cameras are installed.

Similar to how TLK's 700s are dispatched. 1 Dispatcher stands ahead of the train, in view of the Driver, and relays the "Tip" to Close the Doors and the RA.
 

hwl

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I'm expecting that the DOO cameras will be ready for December so there won't be any need for dispatchers. If MTR require a fall back method using train dispatchers, that's for them to work out.
Agreed - the focus appears to be to get the busiest stations completed first with Twyford possibly being sacrificed to dispatchers for short while if need to focus on getting the others sorted.
 

matt_world2004

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TfL rail are now running their post peak ckass 345s evening service with 9 car trains. Cant be long now before the whole service becomes 9 car trains.
 

JonathanH

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TfL rail are now running their post peak ckass 345s evening service with 9 car trains. Cant be long now before the whole service becomes 9 car trains.

Only on one side of the hour as far as I can see (xx48 from Hayes & Harlington / xx17 from Paddington after 1948) as far as I can see.

This still seems to be in the timetable in this form for the next week.
 

700007

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TfL rail are now running their post peak ckass 345s evening service with 9 car trains. Cant be long now before the whole service becomes 9 car trains.
Hopefully in the next few weeks if all goes well.

Only on one side of the hour as far as I can see (xx48 from Hayes & Harlington / xx17 from Paddington after 1948) as far as I can see.

This still seems to be in the timetable in this form for the next week.
Shortly both sides of the hour should be a 9-car if I have it right, but it needs to accumulate enough fault-free mileage before they choose to do that.
 

Dren Ahmeti

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A Class 345 is currently sitting in Heathrow Terminal 5’s Platform 4 on test, as 5X50.

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RDWRER

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Great to see a 345 in the tunnels. Anyone in the know on the target date for them taking over the 360 work?
 

kevin_roche

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Great to see a 345 in the tunnels. Anyone in the know on the target date for them taking over the 360 work?

The latest I read was a couple of months ago now but gave a range of dates from March 2020 to May 2020 but I believe it is dependant on the train software supporting both TPWS and ETCS signalling and transitioning between the two without problems.

There is a plan by Network Rail to install ETCS all the way from Paddington to Heathrow by Easter 2020 but Crossrail may not be planning to wait for that.

See my post on the ERTMS rollout on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ertms-rollout-on-ecml-and-gwml.150655/page-4
 

J-2739

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This post is probably 2 years out of date, but I don't care. Currently on one now, and I find them probably one of the most sleekest, quietest and smoothest trains to run this network.

Also, I like the simple, but useful PIS announcements on this train, unlike the verbal diarrhoea that infests other units.

Stiff competition between the Desiro City and Aventra!!
 

JonathanH

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As this thread has been bumped is anyone keeping track of which units have operated the 9-car services on weekday evenings - I've only seen reports of 345037 but haven't been over to see for myself.
 

spark001uk

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Just see 4 cars of a unit split off, sitting at ooc with a battery shunter on one end. Wonder what that's about?
 

JonathanH

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As this thread has been bumped is anyone keeping track of which units have operated the 9-car services on weekday evenings - I've only seen reports of 345037 but haven't been over to see for myself.

345030 in use last night as a 9-car.
 

samuelmorris

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To send to the East and retire some more 315s?
That's the only explanation I can think of. What becomes of the limit of how many 7-cars they can have running at once I'm not sure. Perhaps that's less an issue with the upheaval to Crossrail's introduction and getting the 315s off lease (or perhaps, over to LO) has become more of a priority as exams come due.
 

hwl

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The 9 car units are designed to split into 4car and 5car "half" units so nothing too unusual there (and 7cars into 3/4 car).

A fair number of 315 need to be retained for the LST P16-18 works.

I shouldn't be long till the 3 western 7cars can go east.
 
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