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Rights when holding an itinerary with an Advance ticket before a strike timetable is imposed

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gray1404

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I'm travelling from Formby to Edinburgh on Tuesday 3 September 2019 and Edinburgh to Formby on Thursday 5 September 2019. Both of these days have been announced as strike days on Merseyrail.

I have already purchased Advance tickets for this journey with an itinerary as follows: (All tickets have been booked with Loco2)

3 September 2019
Formby 06:22 (Merseyrail)
Southport 06:40

Southport 06:48 (Northern)
Wigan Wallgate 07:24

Wigan North Western 07:38 (Virgin Trains)
Edinburgh 10:18

5 September 2019
Edinburgh 14:52 (Virgin Trains)
Preston 17:15

Preston 17:26 (Northern)
Ormskirk 17:56

Ormskirk 18:04 (Merseyrail)
Sandhills 18:31

Sandhills 18:45 (Merseyrail)
Formby 19:07

Based on their previous strike timetables it's highly unlikely Merseyrail will run any of the services I require.

Both my Advance tickets are VTWC and Connections. I only have reservations for the Virgin Trains leg (no other reservations and no counted places) Would I be allowed to travel later on the outward journey? Returning, would I be able to leave Edinburgh earlier so I make the last Merseyrail service? Would I also be permitted to use TPE services as its an "and Connections" ticket?

On the outward journey I assume it would be a case of travelling later (i.e. on their first service) and arriving in Edinburgh later. I am assuming Virgin/TPE would have to accept my ticket on a later train? If so, can I claim compensation under the provisions of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (as Merseyrail do not operate delay repay) or can Merseyrail get out of this as it was strike action?

I could make my own way to Southport by bus to make my VT connection. Can I claim expenses for this?

Returning I would be able to get as far as Liverpool or Southport. If so, will they be liable to get me a taxi to my destination? Or if not will I be able to claim such expenses back? I could also get the bus from Preston direct to Formby. Again, will I be able to claim compensation based on the NRCoT provisions or does the strike allow them to not pay?

Likewise, is there an entitlement to leave Edinburgh earlier then my booked train so I can make the last train they are running rather then end up asking for a taxi/making my own way home?

I would welcome advise on where I stand here as I have purchased my tickets before the strike timetable was published (and indeed still hasn't been).
 
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maxbarnish

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The expert consensus on here has been that your original booking should be honoured. Yet SWR refused to do this for me during their strike. I suggest you talk to the companies involved and agree a plan. I can see no way that you won't be conveyed to your destination - either leaving on time or at any agreed different time - but it would be best to have this agreed in advance. You'll need to wait for the amended timetable to come out though. You could reiterate your rights re pre-existing booking - theory and practice can be different sometimes though? I am sure you can get this sorted by contacting the companies.
 

JBuchananGB

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In your position, I would take the Arriva bus 46B from the Blundell Arms at 0606 arrive Southport 0633, and continue the journey as planned.

For the return the Stagecoach X2 dep Preston (Preston City Centre, Railway Station, Stand A (on Fishergate Hill)) 1751 arrive Blundell Arms 1907, which is pretty much on time for you. (If you can move quick and catch the 1721 you'll save half an hour, but I don't know Preston so I don't know if it can be done.)

I do not think you will stand much chance of claiming bus fares back from anybody. Maybe you could try changing your return train ticket for one that only goes as far as Preston.
 

Haywain

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Again, will I be able to claim compensation based on the NRCoT provisions or does the strike allow them to not pay?
Any claims for delay resulting from the strike will be against and subject to Merseyrail's relevant compensation scheme.
 

JBuchananGB

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Details of the compensation arrangements can be found at
https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/refunds.aspx
We normally run reliable and punctual services, but things do sometimes go wrong. If our service fails the standards set out in our Passenger Charter, we or Merseytravel will offer refunds or compensation as indicated below.

The below information sets out Merseyrail’s claims process, which is in line with the National Conditions of Rail Travel. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 also provides consumers with various rights, e.g., rights where a service is not performed with reasonable care and skill (see section 49 of the Act - click here to read in full).

If you cannot find the information you need please Contact Us here or call our Customer Relations team on 0151 555 1111 Monday to Friday 7am - 7pm.

The refund and compensation arrangements for when journeys are cancelled or delayed remain in place throughout strike action.

So you can choose between early bus an use your booked trains from Southport or

08:22–08:40 Formby to Southport
08:52–09:23 Southport to Wigan Wallgate
09:28–09:29 Walk Wigan Wallgate to Wigan North Western
09:38–12:22 Wigan North Western to Edinburgh

I know what I would do!
 
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M28361M

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Merseyrail's Passengers Charter is quite stingy on long-distance tickets. They will compensate just 20% of the ticket price for delays of 30 minutes or more.
 

gray1404

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So for outward journey:
Bus to Southport then train to arrive on time
Or
Travel by train and arrive 2 hours later - in which case claim 20% from Merseyrail under NRCoT. Virgin will be obliged to accept my ticket on later train.

Returning
Travel on booked train to either Preston, Southport or Liverpool then go by bus and claim 20% from Merseyrail under NRCoT if 60 or more minutes late? (or is it only 30?)

Are Virgin obliged to accept my ticket on an earlier train so that I'm able to complete my journey by rail?

Are Merseyrail able to decline any claim for delay compensation under the NRCoT due to industrial action?
 

JBuchananGB

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Your outward bound summary seems OK.

On return you do not seem to hold a ticket with validity beyond Preston except via Ormskirk, so Southport or Liverpool would involve additional tickets. It has been discussed elsewhere that Advance tickets are not valid on earlier than booked trains even to avoid obvious service disruption.

Merseyrail say
The refund and compensation arrangements for when journeys are cancelled or delayed remain in place throughout strike action.

Do you really want to put them to the test?

Have you contacted Loco2 about changing your return ticket, either to end at Preston and take bus, or to fit an alternative rail itinerary, without an admin charge because the reason for the change is service disruption?
 

gray1404

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Travel via Southport or Liverpool by train would not require additional tickets. It is a VT & Connections ticket and the only specified leg is the VT one. So continuing travel on connecting trains towards Formby is fine.

It will be interesting to see if Virgin allow earlier travel as this is different to ad hoc disruption. Rather its trains cancelled in advance and new timetable imposed.

It will be interesting to see if Merseyrail pay out or if they try and get out of it.
 

JBuchananGB

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The only way to find out whether Merseyrail will pay for your delay based on their Passenger Charter is to subject yourself to the delay, and then claim. This depends on your personal priorities, i.e whether it is more important to you to arrive at your destination on time, even if you incur some inconvenience and additional cost (e.g. early start, bus fare) or to test Merseyrail's compensation process. Only you can decide.

From other threads in this forum I am confident that Virgin will not accept your ticket on an earlier train than the booked one. But you could ask Loco2 to rebook you onto the 12.52 departure. Otherwise, as you say, you could get to Southport at 18.39 and complete your journey by bus from there.
 

hkstudent

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SE London
So for outward journey:
Bus to Southport then train to arrive on time
Or
Travel by train and arrive 2 hours later - in which case claim 20% from Merseyrail under NRCoT. Virgin will be obliged to accept my ticket on later train.

Returning
Travel on booked train to either Preston, Southport or Liverpool then go by bus and claim 20% from Merseyrail under NRCoT if 60 or more minutes late? (or is it only 30?)

Are Virgin obliged to accept my ticket on an earlier train so that I'm able to complete my journey by rail?

Are Merseyrail able to decline any claim for delay compensation under the NRCoT due to industrial action?
By NRCOT, over 1 hour delay entitles minimum of 50% delay repay, for all TOCs and devolved London railways
 
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