Left Behind at Motherwell

Starmill · 18 Aug 2019

Unfortunately I have just attempted to travel from Motherwell to Edinburgh on the 1218 departure. This was booked in advance as a CrossCountry Only ticket.

Unfortunately the train was formed of 4 coaches and not the 8 that were supposed to be, and arrived already full and standing with passengers from Glasgow Central. Quite a number of us were forced to abandon on the platform, as the aisles and doorways were already all full of passengers and luggage.

The ticket examiner on the 1225 ScotRail service to Glasgow Central was happy to accommodate us. It may be difficult or impossible to continue our journey in this situation though as there's no clear alternative XC train. Staff at Motherwell didn't know if ticket acceptance was in place or not. The XC guard said it was.

What would you do in this situation?

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800002 · 18 Aug 2019

As the next XC service going via Edinbrugh was the 1403 Guildford service, so I would have got on the next train going to Edinbrugh, regardless if ticket acceptance was in place or not.
*And I now see your issue! You had to get the Glasgow service inorder to get to Edinbrugh!

If I was going further than Edinbrugh though, and depending on services from glasgow, I don't know. If I could spare the time, I'd wait for the next XC and have a free journey!

Bletchleyite · 18 Aug 2019

Got on the next train, paid if challenged and reclaimed it from XC.

433N · 18 Aug 2019

Starmill said:
What would you do in this situation?

To be honest, if I was left behind at Motherwell, I'd be looking to take those responsible to the European Court of Human Rights.

route101 · 19 Aug 2019

The XC services going from Glasgow to Edinburgh have never been busier , seen standing a few times now . XC HST back to Glasgow on Friday was busy , 4 car 220 would of been standing . Always think a few more lner could be extended as the main market is Glasgow to Newcastle .

Why were the services running to Reading ,when was this ?

Starmill · 19 Aug 2019

We all expected the train to be busy and that we may have to stand, but we were shocked that it was so busy we got left behind.

Indeed as several other people were also stuck we would have hoped XC would have had a stand by bus or taxi for us, which could have taken us to Edinburgh with a much shorter delay. As they didn't we became delayed by nearly 2 hours. ScotRail's ticket examiners were very positive and understanding which helped matters a great deal. Perhaps they've been briefed on 'customer care' during the Edinburgh Festivals which seem to have created some incredible overcrowding.

The other interesting issue was with First Class. One of our group went to speak to the guard about whether First Class had been declassified. He said it hadn't but that standing in the First Class saloon was permitted as long as the door at the inner end of that carriage was used. He said that the use of the door he was working from, behind the cab, wasn't permitted except for passengers with First Class tickets. The implication was that he didn't want anybody to be stood in the area from which he needed to work the train.

800002 · 19 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Why were the services running to Reading ,when was this ?

As that was where they were timetabled to go

Yesterday - from Glasgow / Motherwell
1V36 - reading (v. 1V62 - plymouth)
1V87 - reading (v. 1V64 - plymouth / Penzance)
1O32 - Guildford (v. 1V68 - plymouth)

Without seeing the XC enginering planning spec, I couldn't tell you why, other than engineering works.

route101 · 19 Aug 2019

800002 said:
As that was where they were timetabled to go
Yesterday - from Glasgow / Motherwell
1V36 - reading (v. 1V62 - plymouth)
1V87 - reading (v. 1V64 - plymouth / Penzance)
1O32 - Guildford (v. 1V68 - plymouth)

Without seeing the XC enginering planning spec, I couldn't tell you why, other than engineering works.

They done this last year but didnt realise again . Guildford is an interesting destination from Glasgow .

yorkie · 19 Aug 2019

It makes no material difference where the train was going beyond Birmingham; when engineering works occur it is not uncommon for trains to slot into different paths than usual.

Short forms may be unavoidable but I do feel that TOCs should make it clearer what the train formation is and inform passengers if there is a short formation.

Clearer instructions should be given to passengers on what alternative services they should take.

ainsworth74 · 19 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Always think a few more lner could be extended as the main market is Glasgow to Newcastle .

Well the XC service that currently exists is only there to replace the previous LNER service which was withdrawn back in May 2011 with the Eureka timetable!

Starmill said:
The implication was that he didn't want anybody to be stood in the area from which he needed to work the train.

To be fair I can well believe they'd be worried that if their vestibule got as busy as the one you've sent a photo of they wouldn't be able to work the train at all without turfing some people off which is not a confrontation anyone wants to be having!

800002 · 19 Aug 2019

route101 said:
They done this last year but didnt realise again . Guildford is an interesting destination from Glasgow .

XC are incredibly good at planning around nationwide engineering works. Often with the same plan year on year where possible.

Things like the bristol / badminton works they manage to still run in one of thier WTT paths after reversing at somewhere like Swindon (picking up the next WTT path from Bristol at say Gloucester or Cheltenham area (thus continuing to Birmingham / York / Newcastle in thier usual slots.

They are certainly well prepared - planning the timetable wise, anyway.

ainsworth74 · 19 Aug 2019

yorkie said:
Short forms may be unavoidable but I do feel that TOCs should make it clearer what the train formation is and inform passengers if there is a short formation.

Was it on the XC JourneyCheck? Of course the screens should also have the correct info on the platform but XC aren't in charge of those directly so it can be harder for them to fix mistakes there!

30907 · 19 Aug 2019

yorkie said:
Short forms may be unavoidable but I do feel that TOCs should make it clearer what the train formation is and inform passengers if there is a short formation.

XC routinely do this via social media - for example for the equivalent train on Friday last - but obviously they are not consistent.

Kite159 · 19 Aug 2019

route101 said:
The XC services going from Glasgow to Edinburgh have never been busier , seen standing a few times now . XC HST back to Glasgow on Friday was busy , 4 car 220 would of been standing . Always think a few more lner could be extended as the main market is Glasgow to Newcastle .

Why were the services running to Reading ,when was this ?

I guess the existence of the XC only fare between Glasgow & Edinburgh doesn't help loadings.

Starmill · 19 Aug 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Was it on the XC JourneyCheck? Of course the screens should also have the correct info on the platform but XC aren't in charge of those directly so it can be harder for them to fix mistakes there!

Nothing was showing on journeycheck at all, so it's not entirely clear what happened. It was implied it was short formed but it wasn't explicit. Maybe @221129 knows?

221129 · 19 Aug 2019

Starmill said:
Nothing was showing on journeycheck at all, so it's not entirely clear what happened. It was implied it was short formed but it wasn't explicit. Maybe @221129 knows?

I have it down as booked to attach at Edinburgh. I know the CIS does occasionally struggle with that.

Starmill · 19 Aug 2019

221129 said:
I have it down as booked to attach at Edinburgh. I know the CIS does occasionally struggle with that.

Ah. I see. That does seem to explain that one!

800002 · 19 Aug 2019

So it was booked single unit Glasgow - Edinbrugh, and very very busy.

Just out ofinterest, what is the difference in cost for the XC only and the SR / Any Permitted fare?

yorkie · 19 Aug 2019

800002 said:
So it was booked single unit Glasgow - Edinbrugh, and very very busy.

Seems so, but I'd expect it to usually be a 5 car.

800002 said:
Just out ofinterest, what is the difference in cost for the XC only and the SR / Any Permitted fare?

There is a website which allows you to look up any fare www.brfares.com; in this case:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=MTH&dest=GLC

ANYTIME DAY R SDR
Route CROSS CNTRY ONLY
Adult £10.30

OFF-PEAK DAY R CDR
Route NOT VIA GLASGOW
Restriction H1
Adult £11.20

OFF-PEAK DAY R CDR
Route ANY PERMITTED
Restriction H1
Adult £17.80

Unfortunately there are no direct Scotrail trains on Sundays, so the only alternative to XC is to either need to change at Bellshill or go via Glasgow.

Starmill · 19 Aug 2019

800002 said:
Just out ofinterest, what is the difference in cost for the XC only and the SR / Any Permitted fare?

Would have been looking at a single fare of £17.80 rather than the £6.80 paid. In other words, not far off three times the price.

Perhaps ScotRail need to make arrangements for lower prices on their services on Sundays to reduce this large differential? Or, even better, if they could try running some more trains.

800002 · 19 Aug 2019

Thanks for indulging me both,
I do find BRFares slightly too much for my eyes and brain sometimes.

That's a large differential, and I do wonder if SR know that it's better, surely, to have a smaller slice of big pie than a big piece of a small pie.

yorkie said:
Seems so, but I'd expect it to usually be a 5 car.

There is a website which allows you to look up any fare www.brfares.com; in this case:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=MTH&dest=GLC

Unfortunately there are no direct Scotrail trains on Sundays, so the only alternative to XC is to either need to change at Bellshill or go via Glasgow.

Starmill said:
Would have been looking at a single fare of £17.80 rather than the £6.80 paid. In other words, not far off three times the price.

Perhaps ScotRail need to make arrangements for lower prices on their services on Sundays to reduce this large differential? Or, even better, if they could try running some more trains.

route101 · 20 Aug 2019

800002 said:
So it was booked single unit Glasgow - Edinbrugh, and very very busy.

Just out ofinterest, what is the difference in cost for the XC only and the SR / Any Permitted fare?

Not seen a double XC set at Glasgow ina long time . See quite a few people reserving seats between Edinburgh and Glasgow , is there advances too ?

Starmill · 20 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Not seen a double XC set at Glasgow ina long time . See quite a few people reserving seats between Edinburgh and Glasgow , is there advances too ?

No. From Glasgow Central there's just a single fare of £9.55, and a return on the same day at £12.55 - that's it. There are Season and First Class options too.

voyagerdude220 · 23 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Not seen a double XC set at Glasgow ina long time . See quite a few people reserving seats between Edinburgh and Glasgow , is there advances too ?

I think the 09:00 Glasgow Central to Penzance is booked to be 2x220 between Glasgow and Plymouth on Fridays.

Going back to OP, surely the Train Manager should have allowed everyone who was going to be left behind to occupy First Class as far as Edinburgh, knowing that the train is strengthened there? Even as someone who usually pays for First Class myself, I'd expect it to be utilised to convey passengers at risk of being left behind.

Or even if the train hadn't been strengthened at Edinburgh, allow everyone to join the train until Edinburgh and at least only have to wait an hour or so for the next Southbound Cross Country service/LNER if they don't have XC only tickets.

Starmill · 23 Aug 2019

voyagerdude220 said:
Going back to OP, surely the Train Manager should have allowed everyone who was going to be left behind to occupy First Class as far as Edinburgh

As mentioned above the door by the cab where the guard was working from was not for use except by passengers with First Class tickets. The other doorway into First Class was full completely.

voyagerdude220 · 23 Aug 2019

Starmill said:
As mentioned above the door by the cab where the guard was working from was not for use except by passengers with First Class tickets. The other doorway into First Class was full completely.

Exactly- They should have declassified First Class at least as far as Edinburgh to avoid people being left behind.

ScotTrains · 23 Aug 2019

The XC only Anytime Day Return (1st) from Glasgow to Edinburgh is almost half the price than the cheapest 1st class return on Scotrail. It's a shame Scotrail won't introduce significantly cheaper Scotrail only 1st class tickets on the route. Their new trains have awful seats in 1st and it just further encourages people to use XC instead. With XC now providing catering to/from Glasgow there is little reason to use Scotrail 1st class. As a result XC is usually busy in 1st between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

There has been quite a few times I've noticed the XC guard has let people stand in 1st class from Motherwell. As far as I know he never actually declassified 1st (so no refund), but just allowed people to stand there if they could squeeze in.

There is definitely a need for more capacity on the route. Perhaps some LNER, or the new east coast TPEx services could be extended to Glasgow to give an hourly intercity service down the east coast.

route101 · 24 Aug 2019

ScotTrains said:
The XC only Anytime Day Return (1st) from Glasgow to Edinburgh is almost half the price than the cheapest 1st class return on Scotrail. It's a shame Scotrail won't introduce significantly cheaper Scotrail only 1st class tickets on the route. Their new trains have awful seats in 1st and it just further encourages people to use XC instead. With XC now providing catering to/from Glasgow there is little reason to use Scotrail 1st class. As a result XC is usually busy in 1st between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

There has been quite a few times I've noticed the XC guard has let people stand in 1st class from Motherwell. As far as I know he never actually declassified 1st (so no refund), but just allowed people to stand there if they could squeeze in.

There is definitely a need for more capacity on the route. Perhaps some LNER, or the new east coast TPEx services could be extended to Glasgow to give an hourly intercity service down the east coast.

Yeah , more and more people seem to using these services , or it could be i never noticed in the past .

scotrail158713 · 24 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Yeah , more and more people seem to using these services , or it could be i never noticed in the past .

I think it’s more likely that more people are using the services

Left Behind at Motherwell

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