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TfL Rail Paddington to Reading December 2019

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kevin_roche

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Has anyone seen any previews yet of what is planned for the timetable between Paddington and Reading in December 2019?
 
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ChrisHogan

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I imagine a lot of unhappy passengers losing their comfortable 387s for 345s with part longitudinal seating. Presumably the 345s will also have to be reduced in length as I don't think nine-cars will fit into 14 at Paddn.
 

JonathanH

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I imagine a lot of unhappy passengers losing their comfortable 387s for 345s with part longitudinal seating. Presumably the 345s will also have to be reduced in length as I don't think nine-cars will fit into 14 at Paddn.

So long as something else fits in platform 14 they can use 9-car 345s in the other platforms.

The suggestion posted previously here or elsewhere is that GWR will have use of platform 7 leaving Heathrow Express operating solely from platform 6 with reduced turnaround times at Paddington and longer at the Airport.
 

ChrisHogan

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5-car IETs on the Bedwyns and Oxfords perhaps? But a bit messy to get them over to line 2.

I would have thought GWR would need platform 7 for the extra IET services.
 
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superhands

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Crossrail take over most of the paddington to reading routes mon - fri off peak two trains an hour pad to rdg and vice versa peak 4 trains an hour.
Sat and Sun two trains an hour between Pad and rdg and vice versa, Gwr will still operate the overnight services 0115, 0224, 0354 and 0440 off Reading and 0134 and 0334
 

cactustwirly

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Crossrail take over most of the paddington to reading routes mon - fri off peak two trains an hour pad to rdg and vice versa peak 4 trains an hour.
Sat and Sun two trains an hour between Pad and rdg and vice versa, Gwr will still operate the overnight services 0115, 0224, 0354 and 0440 off Reading and 0134 and 0334

I'm assuming the peak time fast services, stay with GWR? What's happening with the semi-fast Reading services in the peaks? Would a 345 be allowed on the mains?
 

Glenn1969

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Given the delay to Crossrail has it been confirmed that TfL Rail are actually taking over the Reading service in Dec 2019 yet?
 

coppercapped

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Crossrail take over most of the paddington to reading routes mon - fri off peak two trains an hour pad to rdg and vice versa peak 4 trains an hour.
Sat and Sun two trains an hour between Pad and rdg and vice versa, Gwr will still operate the overnight services 0115, 0224, 0354 and 0440 off Reading and 0134 and 0334

I imagine a lot of unhappy passengers losing their comfortable 387s for 345s with part longitudinal seating. Presumably the 345s will also have to be reduced in length as I don't think nine-cars will fit into 14 at Paddn.

Crossrail, as has been so often posted, only takes over the two trains per hour practically-all-stations Reading terminators. There will be no increase in the off-peak service over that which is currently operated. During the peaks only there will be four Crossrail trains per hour terminating at Reading essentially by extending two of the Maidenhead terminators. The Maidenhead - Paddington Crossrail peak service will increase from the off-peak four to six trains per hour.

The two trains per hour off-peak Didcot - stations to Reading - then selected stations to Paddington services will still run, operated by Class 387s as now. I have not seen any definite plans for these services during the peak hours.

So the benighted Class 387s with the ironing board seats have now metamorphosed into 'comfortable 387s' - interesting!

There are NO published plans to operate 7 coach Reduced Length Units on the Western - test and training running to Reading is currently being made by Full Length Units.

To Cactustwirly, as the 345s have a 90mph top speed running them on the Mains as a matter of course would not be good for the timekeeping of everything else which will be either 110mph or 125mph. It might be necessary in times of disruption.
 
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700007

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Given the delay to Crossrail has it been confirmed that TfL Rail are actually taking over the Reading service in Dec 2019 yet?
Yes, the plan is to open the Elizabeth line 'backwards'. This will help recover the severe shortfall in revenue that TfL is currently experiencing. As the plan was always 2019, TfL Rail will be taking over the London Paddington to Reading 2tph stopping service running all stations after Southall. So the trains will call at Ealing Broadway, Southall and all stations to Reading. There will be increased peak time trains to / from Maidenhead. Trains will be timetabled where possible to run into platforms 11/12 so that they can operate as 9-cars. GWR Electrostars will run into platform 14.
 

kevin_roche

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The two trains per hour off-peak Didcot - stations to Reading - then selected stations to Paddington services will still run, operated by Class 387s as now. I have not seen any definite plans for these services during the peak hours.

On the gwr-dec-19-timetable thread I see that the Didcot Parkway to Paddington trains will no longer stop at Southall, Iver or Langley. Though as you say it is not definite yet.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-dec-19-timetable.180888/
 

si404

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Reading TfL Rail trains are now on RTT, they are 2tph off peak: Ealing Broadway, Southall and then all stops. Peak service is the same pattern at 4tph with the odd couple of trains not going west of Maidenhead.

The relief line timetable won't quite be at its post-Crossrail state. A lack of space at Paddington for 2tph all day to Maidenhead (and 2tph all day to T5, though with less knock on consequences) means Didcot trains stop at West Ealing off-peak to keep up 4tph and that the peak Reading extras aren't semi-fast. But beyond that, for some unknown reason the Reading trains don't call at West Ealing, nor do the Heathrow/Hayes trains all call at Acton or Hanwell, keeping both 2tph.
 

George180

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Wild says Stage 5A will entail running trains to Reading, and that this will start in December this year with 6tph in the peak and 4tph off-peak. Oyster ticketing will be available for passengers. The full-length nine-car ‘345s’ will be deployed on these services, which will initially use the main line station at Paddington.

Is this true? 6tph in the peak on TFL rail to Reading.
 

cactustwirly

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Wild says Stage 5A will entail running trains to Reading, and that this will start in December this year with 6tph in the peak and 4tph off-peak. Oyster ticketing will be available for passengers. The full-length nine-car ‘345s’ will be deployed on these services, which will initially use the main line station at Paddington.

Is this true? 6tph in the peak on TFL rail to Reading.

I don't know where they're all gonna go, since there's only 2* platforms they can use at Reading.
*1 of which is shared by the XC Newcastle terminators

If the GWR services are included in that figure, then that's the same as now pretty much
 

800002

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I don't know where they're all gonna go, since there's only 2* platforms they can use at Reading.
*1 of which is shared by the XC Newcastle terminators
All the X Rail trains at Reading use #14, all day M-F, except 1625-33; 1825-33; 1840-52; 1940-52; 2140-52; and 2310-16 which all use #13.

The 1842-52 XC 1O24 uses #7b
The 1939-49 XC 1O26 uses #7
The 2140-52 XC 1O30 uses #8b

EDIT: To add a little more info, there is only one occasion, M-F where there are TWO XR (passenger inward - passenger outward / passenger inward - ECS outward) service in reading at the same time.
The
9R10 1926 arr from London Paddington forms 5N08 1941 ECS to Maidenhead Carr. Sdg. on Plat 14.
9R12 1940 arr from London Paddington forms the 1952 9P20 to London Paddington on Plat 13.

The other ECS 'Q' paths dotted around the timetable are slotted in when there isn't a XR sat on platform 14.
 
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JonathanH

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When will they take on the Heathrow Connect services? And extend more out of Hayes?

TfL Rail already run the Heathrow Connect services, but with 360s. Previous postings indicate that 345s won't go to Heathrow until 387s replace the 332s on the Express workings. Probably answers both questions.
 

kevin_roche

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The frequencies will eventually look like this, though the services may be different since they will likely decide to avoid running trains right through from GEML to GWML and all the GWML trains will go to Abbey Wood.

purple_train_frequencies_large.jpg
 

Sprinter150

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The frequencies will eventually look like this, though the services may be different since they will likely decide to avoid running trains right through from GEML to GWML and all the GWML trains will go to Abbey Wood.

purple_train_frequencies_large.jpg

Can’t remember where now, but I’m sure I’ve seen a document / diagram suggesting all Shenfield trains would terminate at Paddington, and all Abbey Wood trains would run through (off peak - not sure what the peak pattern is like, but I don’t think it significantly differs).
 

Sprinter150

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Not what I saw originally, as well as now being outdated, but this suggests no through trains to GWML from Shenfield

“The longest journey, FYI, is Reading to Shenfield, clocking in at 102 minutes, including a change at Whitechapel. Bond Street to Tottenham Court Road, meanwhile, takes just 1 minute”
 

cjohnson

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This is what London Reconnections believed the expected patterns and frequencies to be:
Crossrail-service-pattern-offpeak.png
 

kevin_roche

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This is what London Reconnections believed the expected patterns and frequencies to be:
Crossrail-service-pattern-offpeak.png
Thank you. I knew I'd seen it somewhere but could not remember where. It make more sense to decouple the GEML and GWML services to avoid disruption.
 

SWT_USER

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Reading TfL Rail trains are now on RTT, they are 2tph off peak: Ealing Broadway, Southall and then all stops. Peak service is the same pattern at 4tph with the odd couple of trains not going west of Maidenhead.

The relief line timetable won't quite be at its post-Crossrail state. A lack of space at Paddington for 2tph all day to Maidenhead (and 2tph all day to T5, though with less knock on consequences) means Didcot trains stop at West Ealing off-peak to keep up 4tph and that the peak Reading extras aren't semi-fast. But beyond that, for some unknown reason the Reading trains don't call at West Ealing, nor do the Heathrow/Hayes trains all call at Acton or Hanwell, keeping both 2tph.

Looks like Hanwell is finally getting a Sunday service to.
 

800002

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It make more sense to decouple the GEML and GWML services to avoid disruption.
That was one of the issues raised when the service pattern was first suggested - the delay minutes could be huge if you're running trains from Anglia into Western teritory (and vice versa). How do you stop the delay from snowballing...? The risks are still quite high though, in my own opinion.
Example, Westbound into the core: if you've got a delayed service from Shenfield / Guidea Park - how late can it be, before impacting on the following service from Abbey Wood?
If the total off-peak frequency is 20 tph (every 3 minutes), presumably alternating Shenfield / Abbey Wood, it doesn't leave much room for any sort of recovery.
If it's every 2.5 minutes in the peak, it's likely to get even worse.

Having more options at Paddington, as they do, to turn back / remove from service, will aid the Westbound service.
Presenting the Eastbound services from Reading / Heathrow shouldn't be too much of a challenge around starting the Shenfield / Guidea Park services from Paddington, as the Abbey Wood branch is self contained and so delay through to and starting back from Abbey Wood should be minamilised.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
It's good sense though, none the less to have as little interaction between the regions as possible!
 

kevin_roche

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Example, Westbound into the core: if you've got a delayed service from Shenfield / Guidea Park - how late can it be, before impacting on the following service from Abbey Wood?
If the total off-peak frequency is 20 tph (every 3 minutes), presumably alternating Shenfield / Abbey Wood, it doesn't leave much room for any sort of recovery.
If it's every 2.5 minutes in the peak, it's likely to get even worse.

The CBTC signalling is supposed to be able to handle 30tph which is a 2 minute separation. So, in theory a train being 30 seconds late at peak times or 1 minute late at off peak should not cause any problem.
The close headway testing which is being done might mean the system should be able to handle closer separations.
I would expect that any later than 2 minutes, the trains will have to be re-ordered. In that case there may be knock on effect. It would be interesting to know what the plans are for handling longer delays.
 

800002

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The CBTC signalling is supposed to be able to handle 30tph which is a 2 minute separation. So, in theory a train being 30 seconds late at peak times or 1 minute late at off peak should not cause any problem.
The close headway testing which is being done might mean the system should be able to handle closer separations.
I would expect that any later than 2 minutes, the trains will have to be re-ordered. In that case there may be knock on effect. It would be interesting to know what the plans are for handling longer delays.
Thanks Kevin - I wasnt overly sure on the predicted headway capability of the system.

There should have been some mention of recovery / disruption planning by now I would have thought. As it is not currenty Required though, it's probably not been discussed at operational level.
 

Ethano92

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Excuse my ignorance but except for the peak extras from Gidea Park into LST high level, won't crossrail be completely separated from GA as in I thought the slows up to shenfield on the GEML were going to be dedicated to crossrail so if there's disruption, it wouldn't effect GA but I feel like I'm missing something.

Also is there a chance we'd see trains coming from the East terminating at Old Oak common once built as opposed to Paddington low level or will be crossrail platforms be shared with GWML stopping services so couldn't deal with all the extra trains?

Thanks in advance.
 

swt_passenger

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Also is there a chance we'd see trains coming from the East terminating at Old Oak common once built as opposed to Paddington low level or will be crossrail platforms be shared with GWML stopping services so couldn't deal with all the extra trains?
I believe most terminators will extend to Old Oak Common, which will have four platforms on the reliefs, and two reversing sidings beyond the station. The details are in one of the HS2 amendment packages.
 
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