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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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theironroad

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I was not aware of this being an issue on GTR... Is this something that has changed since returning to SWR/what is the reasoning behind this?

I'm not sure what the operating procedure was on gatex, but as 442s don't have individual cab doors incorporated into the cab, the vestibule doors are the only way the driver can exit the train in order to access the track. Additionally the door between the cab and vestibule isn't particularly strong, though they do seem to have made some improvements.

The same policy applies on swr operated 158/159 stock.
 
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HamworthyGoods

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Probably partly crew familiarity. It will be interesting to analyse sectional timings once a full service has run for a week or so. Certainly the one minute allowed at Godalming in the up direction is tight (it's tight with other services as well due to the curvature of the platform).
Open Train Times shows dwell times at Godalming increasing to 1.5 minutes on the up in 1P services from December.
 

theironroad

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I should add that the leading door is made available at terminal stations, such as Waterloo and Portsmouth harbour and at other destinations when the train will reverse direction, ie Poole.
 

387star

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Had my first couple of trips on them today. I was very impressed. It's certainly a high quality refurbishment, against my expectations and in contrast to the unfinished job on the Desiros. The Chapman seats using new Transcal cushions are the most comfortable "new" seats I've come across.

There were three French blokes sat near me. One wondered whether it was a new train and another said that it was very nice, "and I've never said that before about an English train".
Wow impressive
 

Monty

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Anyone got any pics of the Guards panels post mods (as now) to satisfy my curiousity?

The panels look the same, there is no physical difference, what has changed is how the local door behaves when you operate the door key switch.
 

swt_passenger

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I was not aware of this being an issue on GTR... Is this something that has changed since returning to SWR/what is the reasoning behind this?
The reasoning is that there are no separate driver’s cab doors. Same procedure, locking the front vestibule out of use, applies to SWR 158/9s. SWR have reintroduced the original operating procedures used by SWT and BR.
 

pompeyfan

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I wonder if this is a local ASLEF agreement. After all they ran without that stipulation on GatEx, and as others have said GWR run their 158s the 60 odd miles from Southampton to Brighton over the juice.
 

swt_passenger

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I wonder if this is a local ASLEF agreement. After all they ran without that stipulation on GatEx, and as others have said GWR run their 158s the 60 odd miles from Southampton to Brighton over the juice.
Aslef agreement has always been the answer when previously discussed, and IIRC no-one ever satisfactorily explained why GatEx didn’t follow the same procedures. The same question about 158s and 159s has always got around to the increased difficulties and dangers of trackside access on the four track sections of the electrified SWML.
 

pompeyfan

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Aslef agreement has always been the answer when previously discussed, and IIRC no-one ever satisfactorily explained why GatEx didn’t follow the same procedures. The same question about 158s and 159s has always got around to the increased difficulties and dangers of trackside access on the four track sections of the electrified SWML.

Which would make sense, until GTR ran 442s on similar metals into London Bridge and Victoria. Still, it’s a quirky policy, but one I agree with.
 

SWRtrain_fan

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It's great that Portsmouth line passengers are now finally getting more 2+2 seating. How many pairs of 442s are now in service with SWR?
 

Thumper1127

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2 pairs in service, one making 3 return trips on the Portsmouth Direct and one return trip Southampton Airport to Waterloo and Waterloo to Poole. The units swap over at Waterloo in the morning to make a 2 day cycle so units can return to Bournemouth depot for servicing/swapping.
 

daveshah

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Curiously, a short delay on the 1848 Waterloo to Poole 442 I was on last week just after Southampton was explained by the guard as a signal going from green to red in front of the driver, and a resultant need to contact the signaller and check the line ahead. Was awful weather so perhaps related to that rather than the train though...
 

mchd2000

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What is the seating capacity of a refurbished 10-442 compared with a refurbished 10-444 - 1P16 felt very full this morning compared with last week
 

Goldfish62

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Are the automated announcements working now, and if so are they Celia like the Desiros?
They're working, but the Southern style announcements including the chime and scrolling next station have been retained. The voice though is SWT/SWR Celia.
 

pompeyfan

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There’s a marginal difference between a refurbished 444 and a 442 if I remember correctly. Others are better at pulling numbers.

If the issue happened on the down fast at Millbrook then it’s the same place as previous incidents, and it’s likely that they share the same issues as At Earlsfield
 

theironroad

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What is the seating capacity of a refurbished 10-442 compared with a refurbished 10-444 - 1P16 felt very full this morning compared with last week

Someone's asked the same question on swr Twitter this very morning and swr replied that a 10-442 has 672 as and a 10-444 has 598
 

Thumper1127

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Picked this up form another thread:

10.442 676/64F
10.444 666/64F
12.450 792/48F

It seems 10 more standard seats in a 10-442 versus a 10-444.
 

theironroad

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Someone's asked the same question on swr Twitter this very morning and swr replied that a 10-442 has 672 as and a 10-444 has 598
Picked this up form another thread:

10.442 676/64F
10.444 666/64F
12.450 792/48F

It seems 10 more standard seats in a 10-442 versus a 10-444.

Seems to be some discrepancies between what the other thread you cite claims for seat numbers and what SWR claim in their tweet today.
 

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pompeyfan

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Seems to be some discrepancies between what the other thread you cite claims for seat numbers and what SWR claim in their tweet today.

The below numbers were taken directly from the 442 traction manuals, but like you say some significant differences between numbers quoted, unless SWR Twitter are using the numbers from a non refurb 444.

Picked this up form another thread:

10.442 676/64F
10.444 666/64F
12.450 792/48F

It seems 10 more standard seats in a 10-442 versus a 10-444.
 

Thumper1127

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The below numbers were taken directly from the 442 traction manuals, but like you say some significant differences between numbers quoted, unless SWR Twitter are using the numbers from a non refurb 444.

I believe the 598 is the un-refurbished 444 figure. I seem to remember a mention of circa 34 additional standard seats per 5 car unit.
 

swt_passenger

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What is the seating capacity of a refurbished 10-442 compared with a refurbished 10-444 - 1P16 felt very full this morning compared with last week
It’s slightly more in the 442 as said above:
10.442 676/64F
10.444 666/64F
However, that 444 figure probably still includes the seats in one of the bike spaces, that didn’t happen. Which increases the 442 difference...
 

swt_passenger

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I believe the 598 is the un-refurbished 444 figure. I seem to remember a mention of circa 34 additional standard seats per 5 car unit.
Yes 598 is definitely the unrefurbished 10 car 444 figure, best source I found is the online franchise agreement which has a detailed table for the whole fleet.
 

Monty

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9P34 experienced another Change Of Aspect... wonder if we can get a hat trick

I wonder how much longer this will continue before SWR and NR are forced to get their head out of the sand admit their is a problem and fix it?
 

TEW

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There are signalling interference test trips in the system for the next few nights. ECS Bournemouth to Clapham and then several round trips between Claphan and Surbiton.
 
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