Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

SpeedbirdA350 · 18 Aug 2019

Scotrail, the damage to 302 was quite extensive when you look at the overall list (if you remember the picture that was posted on here before it was removed). The front end will take a bit of time alone given it has to be made in a mould etc, i assume composit plastic. I would assume it would be another couple of months before things move or so and I assume, probably not until next year before it's back on the road. As for 1029, I honestly can't see it being back on the road, as it did look twisted but it does depend on what they find in inspections etc so need to wait and see.

Omni, you need to remember though that 99.99% of enthusiasts don't have access to the depot, garage and don't see behind the scenes like you do, and don't know what parts are in stock, what parts need to be made from scratch ie the front end and what can be done in x timescale. I don't think it's a case of enthusiats thiniking it goes in one day and out the next, that does not happen with a car but what does happen with a car is the dealer garage often has all the parts there and can be fixed within a few weeks. Bus garages won't often have a spare entire front end sitting around (unless came off a donor bus) but again, some people might not know this. Explaining and understanding is key. It's not a crime to assume things.

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DunsBus · 18 Aug 2019

The problem is that there are a handful of enthusiasts out there who really do think a wrecked bus can be fixed just like that. When you try to explain that this isn't the case, you just can't get through to them.

I'll give an example. When 390 was destroyed in that arson attack at Oxgangs a few years back the number of so-called enthusiasts who didn't understand the meaning of the word "destroyed" was unreal. They honestly thought that it would be repaired and returned to service. I'd seen a photo of 390's wrecked remains on a private Facebook group and knew right away that it wouldn't be back - but try telling that to the veg! It's the likes of them who give the rest of us a bad name.

SpeedbirdA350 · 18 Aug 2019

390 had no floor left let alone anything else so quite how folk though it would be back up and runing is a mystery and correct me if I'm wrong, but the chassis was so badly damaged, it partly broke apart upon being removed from the scene.

I guess some folk just don't grasp the obvious ie 390 but some enthusiasts also just don't know and look at other repairs as a measuring stick to compare to other repairs but might not know that x or y is damaged compared to another. It's not like Lothian will ever tell enthusiasts about damage and list the parts that need to be fixed with a repair schedule lol.

I know when I seen 942, I thought write off but it's getting repaired.

Jordan Adam · 18 Aug 2019

I see 1125 got stuck at Lathalmond...

90019 · 18 Aug 2019

Someone attempted to park it on the grass where it had been yesterday, but the ground was too boggy so it got stuck.

It's happened plenty of times before with other buses, and I'm sure it'll happen plenty more times in future - I'm surprised there isn't an evening news OMG "SUPERBUS" BAD!!!! article about it already.

OmniCity999 · 19 Aug 2019

Colin M said:
It puzzles me, one minute you say you can't divulge information on vehicle repairs and yet all of a sudden, here you are, spewing out details willy nilly....make yer mind up.....

i'll talk about what i want on my terms.

OmniCity999 · 19 Aug 2019

DunsBus said:
The problem is that there are a handful of enthusiasts out there who really do think a wrecked bus can be fixed just like that. When you try to explain that this isn't the case, you just can't get through to them.

I'll give an example. When 390 was destroyed in that arson attack at Oxgangs a few years back the number of so-called enthusiasts who didn't understand the meaning of the word "destroyed" was unreal. They honestly thought that it would be repaired and returned to service. I'd seen a photo of 390's wrecked remains on a private Facebook group and knew right away that it wouldn't be back - but try telling that to the veg! It's the likes of them who give the rest of us a bad name.

Yeah it was knackered. Only small things were able to be salvaged, the registration plates were able to be salvaged. Even then, what use are they? one of them at least is up on the wall in Seafield.

I've got a photo of 390 somewhere, should try dig it out.

GusB · 19 Aug 2019

Colin M said:
It puzzles me, one minute you say you can't divulge information on vehicle repairs and yet all of a sudden, here you are, spewing out details willy nilly....make yer mind up.....

I don't recall @OmniCity999 being unable to divulge what is involved as regards vehicle repairs. I do recall there being some justified reticence at revealing what their employer's plans were regarding future services. The action required to repair a vehicle isn't a secret.

There's no subtle way to put this: gonnae wind yer neck in and stop being so bloody aggressive!

OmniCity999 · 19 Aug 2019

GusB said:
I don't recall @OmniCity999 being unable to divulge what is involved as regards vehicle repairs. I do recall there being some justified reticence at revealing what their employer's plans were regarding future services. The action required to repair a vehicle isn't a secret.

There's no subtle way to put this: gonnae wind yer neck in and stop being so bloody aggressive!

Here here

SpeedbirdA350 · 19 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
Yeah it was knackered. Only small things were able to be salvaged, the registration plates were able to be salvaged. Even then, what use are they? one of them at least is up on the wall in Seafield.

I've got a photo of 390 somewhere, should try dig it out.

Lucky no one was injured on the bus though. I've only seen a far away pic, so I'd be interested in seeing the one you have if you're able to find it.

As for plates, it goes to show how intense it actually was.

SpeedbirdA350 · 19 Aug 2019

GusB said:
I don't recall @OmniCity999 being unable to divulge what is involved as regards vehicle repairs. I do recall there being some justified reticence at revealing what their employer's plans were regarding future services. The action required to repair a vehicle isn't a secret.

If bosses upstairs tell someone to not speak about a certain subject, or to sign an NDA (non dislosure agreement) then legally they can't talk or they'd run the risk of being fired and job security is critical over divulging info that will be public info within months or so. If however we can get info on something, it IS appreciated. I'd rather everyone in the dark for 6 months though than someone lose their job.

I don't understand personally why some of the things have to be a secret, example some (not all but some) new fleet info but I respect it is and thus sometimes can't be spoke about.

OmniCity999 · 19 Aug 2019

SpeedbirdA350 said:
If bosses upstairs tell someone to not speak about a certain subject, or to sign an NDA (non dislosure agreement) then legally they can't talk or they'd run the risk of being fired and job security is critical over divulging info that will be public info within months or so. If however we can get info on something, it IS appreciated. I'd rather everyone in the dark for 6 months though than someone lose their job.

I don't understand personally why some of the things have to be a secret, example some (not all but some) new fleet info but I respect it is and thus sometimes can't be spoke about.

It can be seen as commercially sensitive, especially when it is being or may be used in a competitive area.

Some things are kept secret at managers request due to it being thought to be a nice surprise or an entire new brand etc.

Weather the public or enthusiasts like it or not, that's the way it is and that's the way it'll stay. If you're keen to know any sensitive data, feel free to submit an FOI. But it wont be coming from me.

route101 · 19 Aug 2019

Old Passenger said:
----------------
You have my sympathies, edinbusman. I also found this headroom problem as soon as the XLBs appeared on the No. 11s. I am 5 foot 9 inches (175cm) tall, in other words not especially tall. There is no other bus type, indeed, no other vehicle type in which I bang my head off the ceiling. I'm interested to hear that LB know about the problem. In my view there are a number of detail defects in the interior fit-out of these buses that make them a pretty uncomfortable travelling experience, plus the major defect of the reduction in pushchair/wheelchair spaces compared to the previous body styles. I find it interesting that so many correspondents here appear to point out that the XLBs conform to laid-down standards. My view would be that the standards aren't up to the job. The XLB design looks to me to have been compromised on travelling quality, probably so as to meet a price target. No doubt others will point out that I am in error, and I look forward to hearing their views. In the meantime these buses are for me, and my family and friends, the Noisy Heid-Bangers.

Try the low height e400sin Glasgow !

ScotRail158725 · 19 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Try the low height e400sin Glasgow !

been on them, they’re worse than Gemini 3s upstairs for headroom

scosutsut · 20 Aug 2019

@OmniCity999 hope this is okay I've been meaning to ask this for a while, what was Lothian's take on the Scanias your username/avatar relate to? I take it the experience wasn't seen as overly positive hence the lack of follow on orders and sticking with the Volvo/Wright combination for over a decade?

OmniCity999 · 20 Aug 2019

scosutsut said:
@OmniCity999 hope this is okay I've been meaning to ask this for a while, what was Lothian's take on the Scanias your username/avatar relate to? I take it the experience wasn't seen as overly positive hence the lack of follow on orders and sticking with the Volvo/Wright combination for over a decade?

Time for a wee story time i reckon...

It's the end of 2005, Renilsons reign at Lothian is coming to an end. Lothian had just received and put into service the first of their Wright Bodied B7TL's, having received their first B7RLE's in 2004 - all in commuter specification, with 1 wheelchair bay and no pram bay! this was added in 2009. In 2005 it was decided that Airlink would be made into more of a premium service, having previously had regular services tridents with luggage racks added. To launch this more premium service, Renilson wanted something a bit special, something different to the regular commuter spec B7TL.

Having trialled Scania 999 (SN04 CPE) back in 2004, the company liked the product but didn't want to commit to a large order due to favouring the Volvo product. When the updated, sleeker model was revealed, Renilson jumped at the opportunity. The buses were delivered in a coach spec with high back leather seats. And because they were different to the norm, were seen as a little bit special. The first batch (995-999) were delivered under Renilsons reign in 2006. Renilson left in 2006 with Craig replacing him, the second batch (985-994) were delivered at the end of 2007.

So Craig comes to the company and see's the investment in Wright / Volvo products and continues it right through to his departure in late 2015/early 2016. It's 2009, Lothian's received it's 2009 deliveries and managed to create a low floor fleet, Harlequins job is done. Airlink is due for an upgrade again, 937-950 (now 20937-20950 of course) are ordered. Decisions are bing made behind the scenes for a return to madder. In 2010 the new batch of Airlink buses are delivered and the Scanias are removed from service, having been offered for sale for the previous 3 months.

At this point, the Scanias are non standard within the fleet, even with a lot of Tridents remaining, the fleet was majority Volvo and that wasnt changing. The Scanias were offered for sale for a total of 4 months with little interest, i believe Brighton were interested but their offer was deemed too low. So they were painted up in the then new Madder livery and used on the 35 and smattering of other routes.

With any company, a standardised fleet is the key to keeping costs down. Even with Craig as the manager, the Scanias wouldnt have lasted very long, but when Richard Hall joined the party in 2016, they were some of the first for the chop. Their a totally non-standard fleet within a fleet and it was beginning to get tricky to find parts. Also, they werent designed for regular service work. They were designed as coaches and that was exactly what they were, even down to the way they were geared. When they came off Airlink they had some reprogramming done to make them more suitable but they werent great. So they left. I'd have loved to see one preserved.

Bear in mind i've only worked for the company for the last 4 ish years so some of this is internet research and stories from fellow employees.

ScotRail158725 · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
Time for a wee story time i reckon...

It's the end of 2005, Renilsons reign at Lothian is coming to an end. Lothian had just received and put into service the first of their Wright Bodied B7TL's, having received their first B7RLE's in 2004 - all in commuter specification, with 1 wheelchair bay and no pram bay! this was added in 2009. In 2005 it was decided that Airlink would be made into more of a premium service, having previously had regular services tridents with luggage racks added. To launch this more premium service, Renilson wanted something a bit special, something different to the regular commuter spec B7TL.

Having trialled Scania 999 (SN04 CPE) back in 2004, the company liked the product but didn't want to commit to a large order due to favouring the Volvo product. When the updated, sleeker model was revealed, Renilson jumped at the opportunity. The buses were delivered in a coach spec with high back leather seats. And because they were different to the norm, were seen as a little bit special. The first batch (995-999) were delivered under Renilsons reign in 2006. Renilson left in 2006 with Craig replacing him, the second batch (984-994) were delivered at the end of 2007.

So Craig comes to the company and see's the investment in Wright / Volvo products and continues it right through to his departure in late 2015/early 2016. It's 2009, Lothian's received it's 2009 deliveries and managed to create a low floor fleet, Harlequins job is done. Airlink is due for an upgrade again, 937-950 (now 20937-20950 of course) are ordered. Decisions are bing made behind the scenes for a return to madder. In 2010 the new batch of Airlink buses are delivered and the Scanias are removed from service, having been offered for sale for the previous 3 months.

At this point, the Scanias are non standard within the fleet, even with a lot of Tridents remaining, the fleet was majority Volvo and that wasnt changing. The Scanias were offered for sale for a total of 4 months with little interest, i believe Brighton were interested but their offer was deemed too low. So they were painted up in the then new Madder livery and used on the 35 and smattering of other routes.

With any company, a standardised fleet is the key to keeping costs down. Even with Craig as the manager, the Scanias wouldnt have lasted very long, but when Richard Hall joined the party in 2016, they were some of the first for the chop. Their a totally non-standard fleet within a fleet and it was beginning to get tricky to find parts. Also, they werent designed for regular service work. They were designed as coaches and that was exactly what they were, even down to the way they were geared. When they came off Airlink they had some reprogramming done to make them more suitable but they werent great. So they left. I'd have loved to see one preserved.

Bear in mind i've only worked for the company for the last 4 ish years so some of this is internet research and stories from fellow employees.

Are 20992/4 still with the comapny? i guess your a fan of the scanias aswell, tbh i quite liked them as they had nice interior spec

OmniCity999 · 20 Aug 2019

ScotRail158725 said:
Are 20992/4 still with the comapny? i guess your a fan of the scanias aswell, tbh i quite liked them as they had nice interior spec

They're stored in Marine. Just a fan of their comfort, real leather seats in the 57 plate batch.

Lothian_Bus · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
They're stored in Marine. Just a fan of their comfort, real leather seats in the 57 plate batch.

I liked them too. Used to enjoy getting the 35 when those buses were used.

ScotRail158725 · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
They're stored in Marine. Just a fan of their comfort, real leather seats in the 57 plate batch.

any idea if they will be used again? the 57 ones were really comfy. i remember 171-175 had the same leather seats as them on their days in the 49

OmniCity999 · 20 Aug 2019

ScotRail158725 said:
any idea if they will be used again? the 57 ones were really comfy. i remember 171-175 had the same leather seats as them on their days in the 49

The seats on 171-175 were standard bus seats with leatherette, fake leather. The seats on the 57 plate Airlinks were coach seated with real leather.

Jordan Adam · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
The seats on 171-175 were standard bus seats with leatherette, fake leather. The seats on the 57 plate Airlinks were coach seated with real leather.

Highly doubt they were real leather, More likely E-Leather (recycled leather particles).

That aside i was never a fan of the OmniDekka or OmniCityDD, both had one of the worst interior layouts/designs i've ever seen.

Journeyman · 20 Aug 2019

90019 said:
Someone attempted to park it on the grass where it had been yesterday, but the ground was too boggy so it got stuck.

It's happened plenty of times before with other buses, and I'm sure it'll happen plenty more times in future - I'm surprised there isn't an evening news OMG "SUPERBUS" BAD!!!! article about it already.

LOTHIAN GIANT BUSES CAUSE PLAGUE, PESTILENCE, AND ETERNAL DARKNESS TO DESCEND UPON CITY

Jordan Adam · 20 Aug 2019

90019 said:
Someone attempted to park it on the grass where it had been yesterday, but the ground was too boggy so it got stuck.

It's happened plenty of times before with other buses, and I'm sure it'll happen plenty more times in future - I'm surprised there isn't an evening news OMG "SUPERBUS" BAD!!!! article about it already.

In hindsight it shouldn't have been parked on the grass given the significant weight at the rear end. However it's no big deal and these things happen.

Still, more material for EEN at least!

A330Alex · 20 Aug 2019

After being in London for a few days I was wondering whether any new single deckers might be dual door? I believe all new deckers will have dual doors.

Jordan Adam said:
In hindsight it shouldn't have been parked on the grass given the significant weight at the rear end. However it's no big deal and these things happen.

Still, more material for EEN at least!

At least they'll be back to moaning about the trams soon...

scosutsut · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
Time for a wee story time i reckon...

...Bear in mind i've only worked for the company for the last 4 ish years so some of this is internet research and stories from fellow employees.

Magic, thanks for the insight. I've watched on with interest as they changed what they standardised on from the 90s onwards - Leyland/Alexander, then Volvo/Alexander, then Dennis/Plaxton, then Volvo/Wright. I've always been more interested in the anomalies and like to assume I can second guess what the rational was!

Always had a soft spot for the Scania's - ECB always seems like a natural home for former Airlinks so back when the Scanias were pulled from normal service I hoped in vain we'd see them! (Complete with roofs!)

DunsBus · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
Time for a wee story time i reckon...

It's the end of 2005, Renilsons reign at Lothian is coming to an end. Lothian had just received and put into service the first of their Wright Bodied B7TL's, having received their first B7RLE's in 2004 - all in commuter specification, with 1 wheelchair bay and no pram bay! this was added in 2009. In 2005 it was decided that Airlink would be made into more of a premium service, having previously had regular services tridents with luggage racks added. To launch this more premium service, Renilson wanted something a bit special, something different to the regular commuter spec B7TL.

Having trialled Scania 999 (SN04 CPE) back in 2004, the company liked the product but didn't want to commit to a large order due to favouring the Volvo product. When the updated, sleeker model was revealed, Renilson jumped at the opportunity. The buses were delivered in a coach spec with high back leather seats. And because they were different to the norm, were seen as a little bit special. The first batch (995-999) were delivered under Renilsons reign in 2006. Renilson left in 2006 with Craig replacing him, the second batch (985-994) were delivered at the end of 2007.

So Craig comes to the company and see's the investment in Wright / Volvo products and continues it right through to his departure in late 2015/early 2016. It's 2009, Lothian's received it's 2009 deliveries and managed to create a low floor fleet, Harlequins job is done. Airlink is due for an upgrade again, 937-950 (now 20937-20950 of course) are ordered. Decisions are bing made behind the scenes for a return to madder. In 2010 the new batch of Airlink buses are delivered and the Scanias are removed from service, having been offered for sale for the previous 3 months.

At this point, the Scanias are non standard within the fleet, even with a lot of Tridents remaining, the fleet was majority Volvo and that wasnt changing. The Scanias were offered for sale for a total of 4 months with little interest, i believe Brighton were interested but their offer was deemed too low. So they were painted up in the then new Madder livery and used on the 35 and smattering of other routes.

With any company, a standardised fleet is the key to keeping costs down. Even with Craig as the manager, the Scanias wouldnt have lasted very long, but when Richard Hall joined the party in 2016, they were some of the first for the chop. Their a totally non-standard fleet within a fleet and it was beginning to get tricky to find parts. Also, they werent designed for regular service work. They were designed as coaches and that was exactly what they were, even down to the way they were geared. When they came off Airlink they had some reprogramming done to make them more suitable but they werent great. So they left. I'd have loved to see one preserved.

Bear in mind i've only worked for the company for the last 4 ish years so some of this is internet research and stories from fellow employees.

I seem to recall that when 989 was repaired following its fire damage LB had quite a job sourcing the parts, which is why the repairs took so long and why it returned to the road just a matter of months before withdrawal from LB service.

scotrail158713 · 20 Aug 2019

OmniCity999 said:
Time for a wee story time i reckon...

It's the end of 2005, Renilsons reign at Lothian is coming to an end. Lothian had just received and put into service the first of their Wright Bodied B7TL's, having received their first B7RLE's in 2004 - all in commuter specification, with 1 wheelchair bay and no pram bay! this was added in 2009. In 2005 it was decided that Airlink would be made into more of a premium service, having previously had regular services tridents with luggage racks added. To launch this more premium service, Renilson wanted something a bit special, something different to the regular commuter spec B7TL.

Having trialled Scania 999 (SN04 CPE) back in 2004, the company liked the product but didn't want to commit to a large order due to favouring the Volvo product. When the updated, sleeker model was revealed, Renilson jumped at the opportunity. The buses were delivered in a coach spec with high back leather seats. And because they were different to the norm, were seen as a little bit special. The first batch (995-999) were delivered under Renilsons reign in 2006. Renilson left in 2006 with Craig replacing him, the second batch (985-994) were delivered at the end of 2007.

So Craig comes to the company and see's the investment in Wright / Volvo products and continues it right through to his departure in late 2015/early 2016. It's 2009, Lothian's received it's 2009 deliveries and managed to create a low floor fleet, Harlequins job is done. Airlink is due for an upgrade again, 937-950 (now 20937-20950 of course) are ordered. Decisions are bing made behind the scenes for a return to madder. In 2010 the new batch of Airlink buses are delivered and the Scanias are removed from service, having been offered for sale for the previous 3 months.

At this point, the Scanias are non standard within the fleet, even with a lot of Tridents remaining, the fleet was majority Volvo and that wasnt changing. The Scanias were offered for sale for a total of 4 months with little interest, i believe Brighton were interested but their offer was deemed too low. So they were painted up in the then new Madder livery and used on the 35 and smattering of other routes.

With any company, a standardised fleet is the key to keeping costs down. Even with Craig as the manager, the Scanias wouldnt have lasted very long, but when Richard Hall joined the party in 2016, they were some of the first for the chop. Their a totally non-standard fleet within a fleet and it was beginning to get tricky to find parts. Also, they werent designed for regular service work. They were designed as coaches and that was exactly what they were, even down to the way they were geared. When they came off Airlink they had some reprogramming done to make them more suitable but they werent great. So they left. I'd have loved to see one preserved.

Bear in mind i've only worked for the company for the last 4 ish years so some of this is internet research and stories from fellow employees.

Well that story time was a lot more interesting than the ones I remember from primary school

Thanks for all that information - I’ve only been following the goings on at Lothian since roughly when this thread started (2-2.5 years ago) so that was fascinating.

90019 · 20 Aug 2019

Jordan Adam said:
In hindsight it shouldn't have been parked on the grass given the significant weight at the rear end. However it's no big deal and these things happen.

Exactly.
It had been kept away from there all day because of the rain earlier on, but I guess someone must have thought it had dried up enough.

SpeedbirdA350 · 20 Aug 2019

They should have had a rubber mat down, so this would not happen but recovery vehicles would not like that I guess lol.

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