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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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hexagon789

hexagon789

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JLUK144 said:
Its 3-car and 4-car. If I’m not mistaken, Ayr and Largs services alternate. An Ayr train arrives and departs as a Largs train. Therefore you get both 3-car and 4-car. I’ve been to Largs a few times recently by train and I’ve had 3-car going there and 4-car going back and vice versa.
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Ah, very much like how a semi-fast works down to Ayr returning as a stopper abd thus that alternates 3 and 4-car as well.

Makes a lot of sense.
 
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Scotrail314209

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snookertam said:
Does seem like it would be a good move, however part of the issue they might run into is capacity at Central at that time. Eg the 1722 Central to Largs goes from platform 7 as a 4 car 380 - couldn't make that any longer without finding a longer platform which means displacing something else. It might be workable, but the point is that the longer you make all the trains at that time of night, the more you'll run into capacity constraints - particularly as when the class 314 diagrams go there will be more class 385s around and therefore longer trains across the station, even before you consider 6 cars on the Ardrossan and Largs routes.

The same could be said for some of the Neilston services at that time too. 1635 and 1703 are 3 car 320 and 314 respectively, are typically full and standing, despite daytime Neilston services all being 4 car class 380. Again whether the space will be there to strengthen these - parhaps using any 380s displaced from Ayrshire should it happen - remains to be seen.
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hexagon789 said:
Even off-peak the Largs can get quite busy to the extent a 3-car units fills up. I'm not sure if specific services to Largs are booked 3 or 4-car or if it's simply either/or but they generally seem to be 3-car.
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JLUK144 said:
Its 3-car and 4-car. If I’m not mistaken, Ayr and Largs services alternate. An Ayr train arrives and departs as a Largs train. Therefore you get both 3-car and 4-car. I’ve been to Largs a few times recently by train and I’ve had 3-car going there and 4-car going back and vice versa.
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4 car 380s from Largs tend to fill up quite a bit too, particularly in mid-morning. There may be a case for another service, but because of the single track working it simply cannot be done.

Ardrossan and Largs get quite a bad deal in the evening peak as Ayr always seems to take priority with the longer train formations. If I'm not mistaken, they retain their 4tph service. Also bearing in mind that some of them do the intermediate stations between Johnstone and Kilwinning, with most of the seats being taken up by commuters for Paisley or Johnstone.

There is a point with most of the platforms at Central being too long for double 380 or double 385. In the future I see that they may need to remodel the approach into Platforms 3 - 8 to accomodate longer trains.

I also believe the 1722 comes from Edinburgh on 1D59.
 
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hexagon789

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Scotrail314209 said:
4 car 380s from Largs tend to fill up quite a bit too, particularly in mid-morning. There may be a case for another service, but because of the single track working it simply cannot be done.

Ardrossan and Largs get quite a bad deal in the evening peak as Ayr always seems to take priority with the longer train formations. If I'm not mistaken, they retain their 4tph service. Also bearing in mind that some of them do the intermediate stations between Johnstone and Kilwinning, with most of the seats being taken up by commuters for Paisley or Johnstone.
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It's interesting because unless I'm mistaken, when the 380s were first introduced there were peak workings to/from Largs which were double units; with the introduction of 4tph to Ayr, that's disappeared.
 
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ScotRail don’t seem to have reinstated the 380 diagrams from before EGIP was electrified. Instead they are just muddling through.

Before 380s were pinched to run to Edinburgh from Queen Street pretty well everything to Ayrshire and Inverclyde was 380, with some trains longer than now.

Why they can’t just revert back to those I’m not sure. Instead every line gets a mixture of classes and now they’re talking about 385s to Ayrshire which surely isn’t necessary if they just get the 380 diagrams fixed?
 
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Southsider

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Fleetwood Boy said:
ScotRail don’t seem to have reinstated the 380 diagrams from before EGIP was electrified. Instead they are just muddling through.

Before 380s were pinched to run to Edinburgh from Queen Street pretty well everything to Ayrshire and Inverclyde was 380, with some trains longer than now.

Why they can’t just revert back to those I’m not sure. Instead every line gets a mixture of classes and now they’re talking about 385s to Ayrshire which surely isn’t necessary if they just get the 380 diagrams fixed?
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Remember four car 380s are doing Neilston now.
 
DaStripedCgull

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speaking about 380s I remember when they used to do Lanark. After that it was only 320/318s and now 385s. pic from flickr.
21869986500_f925b79115_b.jpg
 
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Mingulay

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I have started to notice that the 385s are already losing the new feel. Perhaps the festival goers are even more prone to littering than the regular commuters , my early morning train today looked more like the 170 did! Floor in all carriages strewn with debris. Seats dirty. Clearly not cleaned of late. Lot of black stains on the carpets. I wonder if vinyl is a more sensible ? Carpet lifting at the join between sections at the doors , trip hazard. Lot of rattling panels.

Last week went to use toilet and had to abandon my intent. Seat soiled. And the panel where paper is loaded locked open so just swinging about banging against bowl.

Presented very badly.

Can’t say any of this is a surprise. But shame all the same
 
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InOban

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As suggested on the ScR HST thread, have you tweeted ScotRail? And copied it to Alex Hynes? My guess is that these units were on the late night festival extras, and missed their cleaning slot. Still not good enough.
 
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Mingulay

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InOban said:
As suggested on the ScR HST thread, have you tweeted ScotRail? And copied it to Alex Hynes? My guess is that these units were on the late night festival extras, and missed their cleaning slot. Still not good enough.
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No . Im not on social media like that as I had rather assumed it was for teenagers and attention seeking celebrities , but I suppose I am in the minority now

Sadly the black stains on carpet will be there till they are replaced if they are cared for like the 170s . Rattling panels and over head racks, that's just not put together very well . As I say, a shame as I really like them, but the combination of Scotrails poor cleaning regime , the lazy Scottish traveling public unable to use a bin and potentially poor build quality does not bode well for how these units look and sound in 2 years time
 
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InOban

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Like it or not, there is plenty of evidence that organisations respond more quickly to negative comments on Facebook or Twitter than to more conventional feedback.
 
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Mingulay

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InOban said:
Like it or not, there is plenty of evidence that organisations respond more quickly to negative comments on Facebook or Twitter than to more conventional feedback.
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I have no doubt you are right , but I think on balance social media does more harm than good. I don't use Amazon either for several reasons which again puts me in the minority and I use a bank , not online , again not what the consensus is . But I am comfortable that I am on the right side of the debate on all those areas.
 
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NorthClyde320

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Mingulay said:
I have started to notice that the 385s are already losing the new feel. Perhaps the festival goers are even more prone to littering than the regular commuters , my early morning train today looked more like the 170 did! Floor in all carriages strewn with debris. Seats dirty. Clearly not cleaned of late. Lot of black stains on the carpets. I wonder if vinyl is a more sensible ? Carpet lifting at the join between sections at the doors , trip hazard. Lot of rattling panels.

Last week went to use toilet and had to abandon my intent. Seat soiled. And the panel where paper is loaded locked open so just swinging about banging against bowl.

Presented very badly.

Can’t say any of this is a surprise. But shame all the same
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I would have to say that is my only gripe with the 385's, the flooring. A number of the 385's I have travelled on there has been large stains at both the door areas and the aisles and I was left to wonder if it was beverage, human or animal matter. It's not very welcoming or nice to see but hopefully they have a good industrial cleaner that can remove it rather than having to replace it. It left me thinking though, would it have been better to have had vinyl flooring in the standard class areas with the carpet flooring only used in the first class sections? As regards to the litter and debris on floors and tables I won't even go there (publics fault not Scotrail's or the train cleaning crew).
 
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Mingulay

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NorthClyde320 said:
I would have to say that is my only gripe with the 385's, the flooring. A number of the 385's I have travelled on there has been large stains at both the door areas and the aisles and I was left to wonder if it was beverage, human or animal matter. It's not very welcoming or nice to see but hopefully they have a good industrial cleaner that can remove it rather than having to replace it. It left me thinking though, would it have been better to have had vinyl flooring in the standard class areas with the carpet flooring only used in the first class sections? As regards to the litter and debris on floors and tables I won't even go there (publics fault not Scotrail's or the train cleaning crew).
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I would agree , vinyl best for flooring in the main

No idea what causes the black marks but they are all over the floors , as in 170. Liquid spill of some sort , black coffee?

For sure the conduct of passengers is the cause , but it should not be assumed its not Scotrail at fault . You can challenge bad behaviour and call it out . Announcement to remind not to leave litter . 385 give out plenty of trivial messages , litter should be one. I would name and shame with cc footage some offenders . Word would spread!

But Scotrail cleaning is at fault . Its mainly picking up what is left on tables , and emptying the overly small poorly designed snappy flap bins. Sadly the public push litter between the seats and bulkheads, under seats . The seats need hoovered as does between the seat cushions .
 
Scotrail314209

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Mingulay said:
I would agree , vinyl best for flooring in the main

No idea what causes the black marks but they are all over the floors , as in 170. Liquid spill of some sort , black coffee?

For sure the conduct of passengers is the cause , but it should not be assumed its not Scotrail at fault . You can challenge bad behaviour and call it out . Announcement to remind not to leave litter . 385 give out plenty of trivial messages , litter should be one. I would name and shame with cc footage some offenders . Word would spread!

But Scotrail cleaning is at fault . Its mainly picking up what is left on tables , and emptying the overly small poorly designed snappy flap bins. Sadly the public push litter between the seats and bulkheads, under seats . The seats need hoovered as does between the seat cushions .
Click to expand...

Vinyl is definitely best as the 380s have vinyl and the interior is still relatively immaculate
 
Aictos

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I’m going to have to use the fleet next month, what are they like compared to the Sprinters/Turbostars with their dwell times? Are they still running to the DMU timings?
 
DaStripedCgull

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Mingulay said:
I have started to notice that the 385s are already losing the new feel. Perhaps the festival goers are even more prone to littering than the regular commuters , my early morning train today looked more like the 170 did! Floor in all carriages strewn with debris. Seats dirty. Clearly not cleaned of late. Lot of black stains on the carpets. I wonder if vinyl is a more sensible ? Carpet lifting at the join between sections at the doors , trip hazard. Lot of rattling panels.

Last week went to use toilet and had to abandon my intent. Seat soiled. And the panel where paper is loaded locked open so just swinging about banging against bowl.

Presented very badly.

Can’t say any of this is a surprise. But shame all the same
Click to expand...
I have to agree with you the 385s are losing the new feel. The other day I was on a 385 going to Lanark and the seats behind the driver were absolute filthy. Also isn't the flooring outside the toilets on the 385s vinyls?
 
Aictos

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hexagon789 said:
Via Shotts is still on Sprinter timings (at least one diagram is still DMU I believe)

Via Falkirk High has been on 385-timings since May, many services are 42-43 mins.
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Any idea which diagram is still DMU?
 
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snookertam

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NorthClyde320 said:
Is it 3 x 4 car 380's on the Neilston route off peak?

There's also a 4 car 380 diagram on the Shotts line to i'm sure.
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Yes, the route is exclusively worked by class 380s between the peaks, actually during the peaks they tend to go onto Newton and Circle services more. My impression was that the 380s on the Neilston route was a direct transfer of the diagrams saved from the East Lothian routes going to 385s, although there is still one class 380 through on North Berwicks during the day I think. Isn't there also an additional 380 on the Inverclyde route these days having taken over a 314 diagram, or am I thinking about the 385 diagram?

Part of the issue with different units on different routes is that ScotRail's planners will also be responding to reported passenger numbers, and will diverting resources to best deal with that whilst also taking into account operational issues such as driver knowledge and capacity constraints. For example, the 4 car 380 that is still on the Shotts route all day is almost certainly entirely down to keeping 4 car formation on the 1718 ex-Central, which used to be 2 x 156.

The 385s on the Ayrshire routes may be the most logical choice when it comes to best utilisation of the units, due to their top speed and internal layout, but there will be other considerations too. How do they use the displaced class 380s - do they go onto Inverclyde or Cathcart routes? The other issue is that Ayr based drivers would have to be trained to drive the 385s, for which there will be cost. Is it worth that just to take them off the Cathcart line where at least all the drivers are familiar?
 
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InOban

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I've been told that within the next few years the whole West of Scotland timetable will be recast. This will, among other things, a regular interval timetable on the Shotts route.
 
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