• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Caleb2010

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2015
Messages
355
Location
Dufftown
Cheers.

I'm beginning to get nervous now, last time they booked me a seat that didn't exist on the train that turned up!

The passenger assistance documents said it would be an HST Hybrid set - I'm guessing that means 'Classic'!

I've the same seat this time B73A, I know it's an HST seat, but it should have been last time and a leaky 170 turned up with its 66 seat centre car!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,773
Location
Glasgow
The passenger assistance documents said it would be an HST Hybrid set - I'm guessing that means 'Classic'!

I'd guess so, certainly they like bandying about the 'Inter7City' label when they can...

I've the same seat this time B73A, I know it's an HST seat, but it should have been last time and a leaky 170 turned up with its 66 seat centre car!

One of the ex-Hull Trains ones?
 

Caleb2010

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2015
Messages
355
Location
Dufftown
Was it! If memory serves me right I think it was 413, I was in the wheelchair space in coach A and every time we stopped a plume of water came through the roof panels by the doors! To be fair - it was chucking it down!
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
Cheers.

I'm beginning to get nervous now, last time they booked me a seat that didn't exist on the train that turned up!

The passenger assistance documents said it would be an HST Hybrid set - I'm guessing that means 'Classic'!

I've the same seat this time B73A, I know it's an HST seat, but it should have been last time and a leaky 170 turned up with its 66 seat centre car!
If that disgrace of a classic set I was on last night is anything to go by, not only were there no seat reservations, but someone had used a black marker pen to amend some of the seat numbers on the luggage racks, I've seen it all now.

Returning to the subject of onboard litter on the classics, something that makes the situation worse is that the GWR Standard coaches appear to be so high density that there's no space for bins inside the saloon. The set arrived from the depot with the vestibule bins overflowing, so when passengers boarded and found rubbish all over the tables, the only place for it to go was on the floor. Lovely.

I see that it finally made it to Inverness 75L last night. I got off at Pitlochry because my car was there so I've no idea what caused the further delay, but all round that's what I call a second class ticket.

Not a great start this morning either, the 0707 Glasgow-Inverness is a 158.

Bring back the A2I blockade, everything seemed to run better with it!
 

mr-magoo

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2017
Messages
15
I would suggest you post your concerns on the ScotRail social media pages - Twitter or Facebook. They compile a summary of the days issues for senior management to review.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,609
If that disgrace of a classic set I was on last night is anything to go by, not only were there no seat reservations, but someone had used a black marker pen to amend some of the seat numbers on the luggage racks, I've seen it all now.

Returning to the subject of onboard litter on the classics, something that makes the situation worse is that the GWR Standard coaches appear to be so high density that there's no space for bins inside the saloon. The set arrived from the depot with the vestibule bins overflowing, so when passengers boarded and found rubbish all over the tables, the only place for it to go was on the floor. Lovely.

I see that it finally made it to Inverness 75L last night. I got off at Pitlochry because my car was there so I've no idea what caused the further delay, but all round that's what I call a second class ticket.

Not a great start this morning either, the 0707 Glasgow-Inverness is a 158.

Bring back the A2I blockade, everything seemed to run better with it!

Yeah , noticed no bins on HSTs in the coaches ,not sure if thats the case on refurbs .If theres seat revervations its in one coach only , i usually dont have one so gives me free reign on other coaches
 

Highland37

Established Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
1,259
I have received information indirectly from ScotRail regarding bike spaces.

The most relevant clause from the franchise agreement is probably Schedule 1.4, paragraph 9.1: “The Franchisee shall, so far as is reasonably practical and subject to the availability of appropriate space on any rolling stock vehicles in the Train Fleet, ensure that reasonable facilities for the transport of bicycles on such rolling stock vehicles are made available, to passengers using the Passenger Services….”.



Please be assured that we are fully committed to supporting cycling and we’ve installed more cycle parking at our stations, so it's easier for customers to leave their cycle securely before catching the train. Another example is Bike & Go where it’s possible at 12 stations across Scotland to rent a cycle for a fee and then drop it back later. We regularly receive positive feedback on our Social Media channels from cyclists in relation to their experience when travelling with ScotRail, though of course we’re always looking at how we can improve the experience going forward.



You’ve asked for capacity details for each class of train and I’ve listed these below for each train unit:



Class 156: 6

Class 158: 2 or 4 depending on train unit

Class 170: 2

Class 314: 0 (being retired)

Class 318: 2

Class 320: 2

Class 380: 2

Class 385: 2

High Speed Trains (Classic): 2

High Speed Trains (Refurbs): 2 (increasing to a minimum of 4 once retro-fitting is complete)



I note one of your constituents feels we’ve cut spaces on our trains but that’s incorrect. On the inter-city routes where 170s operate (and where High Speed Trains (HST) are replacing them), 2 spaces are currently available per unit. It's true there’s another rack on the 170s (in an area intended for wheelchair users) but this is unadvertised and unbookable. On these trains, wheelchair users must be given priority and cyclists will be respectfully asked to move their cycles to the vestibule area. Since cycle reservations are compulsory on the routes in question, this means the effective number of spaces is 2 on Class 170s. The position with the refurbed HSTs is that they are currently being delivered with 2 cycle spaces within the carriages. A further 2 spaces will be retro-fitted in the future so in the long term cycle spaces will increase from 2 to at least 4.



Currently we are not operating the power car cycle storage on either the Classic or refurbed InterCity trains but we are continuing to review this. As soon as more information is available, we’ll keep you updated.



We’re also progressing plans to introduce designated carriages for bikes and large sporting equipment to Scotland’s scenic railways on the West Highland Line. These carriages would carry up to 20 bikes to support existing services, providing customers with more seats and luggage space as well as an improved food and drink service and toilet facilities. The trains will also support winter sports in Scotland during the winter months. It is hoped that these carriages would be rolled out in the coming years.



You raised the question about prioritisation and I can advise some services require a cycling space to be reserved and this information is on our website: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/cycling/bikes-trains. Where it’s not possible to book a space then spaces are given on a first come first served basis.
 

InvHst

Member
Joined
9 Dec 2018
Messages
268
Be warned the HST diagrams posted online are wrong!! Had it confirmed by scotrail Twitter team the morning aberdeen to inverness which forms the 944 is a 170 and is staying that way
 

InvHst

Member
Joined
9 Dec 2018
Messages
268
If that disgrace of a classic set I was on last night is anything to go by, not only were there no seat reservations, but someone had used a black marker pen to amend some of the seat numbers on the luggage racks, I've seen it all now.

Returning to the subject of onboard litter on the classics, something that makes the situation worse is that the GWR Standard coaches appear to be so high density that there's no space for bins inside the saloon. The set arrived from the depot with the vestibule bins overflowing, so when passengers boarded and found rubbish all over the tables, the only place for it to go was on the floor. Lovely.

I see that it finally made it to Inverness 75L last night. I got off at Pitlochry because my car was there so I've no idea what caused the further delay, but all round that's what I call a second class ticket.

Not a great start this morning either, the 0707 Glasgow-Inverness is a 158.

Bring back the A2I blockade, everything seemed to run better with it!

0707 was a 158 as the HST developed a fault
 

Goldromans

Member
Joined
11 Feb 2017
Messages
222
As I’ve said before, the fact ScotRail are not using the storage space available in the power cars is nonsense. Even if it was just for end-to-end journeys, that’s still a lot of cases and bikes not taking up space in the coaches. In the tourist season, that’s a lot! What’s the point of having two massive locomotives if they’re not going to utilise the storage that comes with them?
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
I would suggest you post your concerns on the ScotRail social media pages - Twitter or Facebook. They compile a summary of the days issues for senior management to review.
I'd rather that it occurred to them to compile a summary of what's written on this forum and show it to senior management, they might see a few more constructive comments that way!
0707 was a 158 as the HST developed a fault
It must've developed a fault yesterday too, it was a 170 then.

All of the above is a real shame because I was on refurbed set again this morning. It was absolutely immaculate, great service from the trolley, regular reminders of the buffet counter being open, and a litter collector working between Stirling and Glasgow. It's like it's two completely different companies at work.
 

Northhighland

Member
Joined
19 Aug 2016
Messages
606
I'd rather that it occurred to them to compile a summary of what's written on this forum and show it to senior management, they might see a few more constructive comments that way!

It must've developed a fault yesterday too, it was a 170 then.

All of the above is a real shame because I was on refurbed set again this morning. It was absolutely immaculate, great service from the trolley, regular reminders of the buffet counter being open, and a litter collector working between Stirling and Glasgow. It's like it's two completely different companies at work.

I have often thought Scotrail is bipolar in its behaviour. Can get so many things wrong and at the same time get so many things right.

Incredibly frustrating.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,213
I'd rather that it occurred to them to compile a summary of what's written on this forum and show it to senior management, they might see a few more constructive comments that way!

It must've developed a fault yesterday too, it was a 170 then.

All of the above is a real shame because I was on refurbed set again this morning. It was absolutely immaculate, great service from the trolley, regular reminders of the buffet counter being open, and a litter collector working between Stirling and Glasgow. It's like it's two completely different companies at work.

I don't think that it's the job of the Twitter team to spend their time trawling the various forums on which comments might be posted.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,213
ScotRail have created simple ways by which the public can provide instant feedback on their services.

On forums such as this, we are essentially talking to ourselves. If ScotRail choose to eavesdrop, well and good.
 

mde

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2016
Messages
513
ScotRail have created simple ways by which the public can provide instant feedback on their services.

On forums such as this, we are essentially talking to ourselves. If ScotRail choose to eavesdrop, well and good.
This is a good point… there's a lot of feedback here, good and bad, but, if it isn't shared officially then it can't really be acted on.

Twitter's a very effective medium for this since it can be picked up by management much more quickly than feedback via Customer Relations type channels, and, given it's well known that top level management review the feeds (see the countless postings from Alex Hynes as an example), you can be assured that things do get noticed.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
This is a good point… there's a lot of feedback here, good and bad, but, if it isn't shared officially then it can't really be acted on.

Twitter's a very effective medium for this since it can be picked up by management much more quickly than feedback via Customer Relations type channels, and, given it's well known that top level management review the feeds (see the countless postings from Alex Hynes as an example), you can be assured that things do get noticed.
Yes, but I'd have to subject myself to reading all the inane guff that's posted on Twitter. I'd rather put up with rubbish on the trains than read the rubbish that gets posted online. If I see one more photo of people standing up in a 170...

I think that we're all in agreement. If you want to complain, get on Twitter. If I want to comment, which is entirely different, then I do it here. If Scotrail chooses to ignore this channel then it's up to them.
 

mde

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2016
Messages
513
Yes, but I'd have to subject myself to reading all the inane guff that's posted on Twitter. I'd rather put up with rubbish on the trains than read the rubbish that gets posted online. If I see one more photo of people standing up in a 170...
You could always email [email protected] if you prefer - that does, however, lose the immediacy of response (different team, different workload etc).

You don't have to read other people's tweets to use Twitter.
 

marks87

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
1,609
Location
Dundee
I have received information indirectly from ScotRail regarding bike spaces.

I note one of your constituents feels we’ve cut spaces on our trains but that’s incorrect. On the inter-city routes where 170s operate (and where High Speed Trains (HST) are replacing them), 2 spaces are currently available per unit. It's true there’s another rack on the 170s (in an area intended for wheelchair users) but this is unadvertised and unbookable. On these trains, wheelchair users must be given priority and cyclists will be respectfully asked to move their cycles to the vestibule area. Since cycle reservations are compulsory on the routes in question, this means the effective number of spaces is 2 on Class 170s.

While it's true there is a tip-up seat next to one of the cycle areas, I can't ever recall there being a notice that stated it was a dual-use area, where wheelchair users were given priority. Not to say there isn't one - I just can't recall it.

I'm also sure I've had a cycle reservation that's specified the coach containing that rack (I remember it being a tight fit to get my wheel past the tip-up seat), although that could be down to coaches being mis-labelled.

Is it also true that cycle reservations were compulsory before the introduction of HSTs?

In any case, to say it's incorrect to claim that they've cut the available spaces from 4 to 2 is disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at worst.
 

Altnabreac

Established Member
Joined
20 Apr 2013
Messages
2,414
Location
Salt & Vinegar
While it's true there is a tip-up seat next to one of the cycle areas, I can't ever recall there being a notice that stated it was a dual-use area, where wheelchair users were given priority. Not to say there isn't one - I just can't recall it.

I'm also sure I've had a cycle reservation that's specified the coach containing that rack (I remember it being a tight fit to get my wheel past the tip-up seat), although that could be down to coaches being mis-labelled.

Is it also true that cycle reservations were compulsory before the introduction of HSTs?

In any case, to say it's incorrect to claim that they've cut the available spaces from 4 to 2 is disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at worst.

I suspect its cyclists complaining about not being allowed to book the wheelchair spaces / being forced to move for wheelchairs that means increasingly this sort of unofficial sharing of the space is being reduced.

Its just an extra source of conflict for train companies if cyclists won't move for wheelchair users who have a statutory requirement to use the area.
 

marks87

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
1,609
Location
Dundee
I suspect its cyclists complaining about not being allowed to book the wheelchair spaces / being forced to move for wheelchairs that means increasingly this sort of unofficial sharing of the space is being reduced.

Its just an extra source of conflict for train companies if cyclists won't move for wheelchair users who have a statutory requirement to use the area.

Yes, these "shared spaces" can result in conflict, however I still think ScotRail's claim is disingenuous.

I bet they count tip-up seats in wheelchair spaces in the overall boasts about numbers of seats on their routes.
 

AMD

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
607
If Scotrail chooses to ignore this channel then it's up to them.
This 'channel' is just a forum. It's not an officially recognised information source or something that a body like Scotrail or Transport Focus will look at.

Yes, but I'd have to subject myself to reading all the inane guff that's posted on Twitter.
I'm on Twitter and can decide to an extent what I want to see, however the amount of 'inane guff' I have to see on this forum......
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,625
Yes, these "shared spaces" can result in conflict, however I still think ScotRail's claim is disingenuous.

I bet they count tip-up seats in wheelchair spaces in the overall boasts about numbers of seats on their routes.
How's the wheelchair area arranged on the HST refurbs, and is it possible to put bikes there?

Any reason they can't apply the same policy there - unreservable by cycles, but you can put your bike there if it's free and if a wheelchair user needs it, the bikes are moved to vestibule? Or is it that a cl170 vestibule is larger?

I quite often put my bike in a wheelchair area but would never question who had priority, should a wheelchair user show up. I usually sit within sight of the area for that reason. I'd have thought most people would be the same.
 

haggishunter

Member
Joined
25 Aug 2016
Messages
349
Day return to Aberdeen yesterday from Inverness was on double 158s both ways at times of a super off peak ticket. Compared to some recent travelling experiences on the HML and WHL that was positively palatial. Is that a consequence of the Aberdeen Inverness line reopening to through traffic or an indication that more HSTs are out and about each day now so the diesel rolling stock situation is getting somewhat less frantic?

However, I've never known the Inverness - Aberdeen line being so quiet. Could do with more HSTs on this line and making a big fuss about them as there is clearly been a huge drift away during the closure and its going to take time and effort to get people back.
 

Caleb2010

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2015
Messages
355
Location
Dufftown
I don't think it helped that the schools went back this week so off peak patronage might be down due the that!
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,213
Day return to Aberdeen yesterday from Inverness was on double 158s both ways at times of a super off peak ticket. Compared to some recent travelling experiences on the HML and WHL that was positively palatial. Is that a consequence of the Aberdeen Inverness line reopening to through traffic or an indication that more HSTs are out and about each day now so the diesel rolling stock situation is getting somewhat less frantic?

However, I've never known the Inverness - Aberdeen line being so quiet. Could do with more HSTs on this line and making a big fuss about them as there is clearly been a huge drift away during the closure and its going to take time and effort to get people back.

I noticed that on the BBC news page for NE Scotland on Tuesday, the reopening of the line wasn't even mentioned!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top