• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
195001+007 out today coupled on the 4 car diagram

6 car 195 out on 06:13 Wilmslow etc.
Click to expand...

Tempted to say that's the best start to the day for a while, but I see there's been a slight blemish in that the 0551 Airport - Liverpool (i.e. the double 195/0 diagram) left the Airport 12L. It certainly wasn't through waiting for a unit, both 'bits' were there by 0545.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
The 1150 Airport - Lime Street (this is, presumably, the double 195/0 again) is now showing as cancelled, due to a fault with the train, the set now scheduled to run back to Liverpool ECS. The forming journey, the 1016 ex-Lime Street, looks to be running okay!
The 0956 Windermere - Airport and 1229 Airport - Barrow are showing as formed of two coaches instead of three.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Bovverboy said:
The 1150 Airport - Lime Street (this is, presumably, the double 195/0 again) is now showing as cancelled, due to a fault with the train, the set now scheduled to run back to Liverpool ECS. The forming journey, the 1016 ex-Lime Street, looks to be running okay!
Click to expand...

All the remaining journeys for today scheduled to be the 2x195/0 are now coming up as formed of two coaches, so it looks as though one of the units has been taken off.
Meanwhile the 1216 Liverpool - Airport and 1350 return have been cancelled due to 'a fault with the traction equipment'. This is Diagram 6, which should have been paired with the unit on Diagram 7 for the 1516 departure, but the relevant unit seems to be staying on P7 while the unit from Diagram 7 does the 1516 on its own.

EDIT: In answer to the obvious question as to why the unit from Diagram 7 wasn't used for the 1216 & 1350, it depends at what point in time it became apparent that there was a problem with the unit working Diagram 6. If it wasn't apparent until departure time, then the unit working Diagram 7 would have by then been blocked in by the arrival of the ex-Chester train. Other than that, I don't know.

The 0956 Windermere - Airport and 1229 Airport - Barrow are showing as formed of two coaches instead of three.
Click to expand...

The only remaining service journey on the diagram, 1855 Barrow - Preston, is also showing as formed of two coaches.
 
Last edited:
1

156420

Member
Joined
17 Aug 2019
Messages
132
Location
North West
195115, 195120 and 195124 on the Liverpool-Airport’s today.

195115 on the 4 car diagram so short-formed 3 vice 4.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
156420 said:
195115, 195120 and 195124 on the Liverpool-Airport’s today.

195115 on the 4 car diagram so short-formed 3 vice 4.
Click to expand...

The 0613 Liverpool - Wilmslow and 0748 return are booked for a double 195/1, but there's no mention of short-forming on 'Journey Check'. Who's right?
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Diagram 1 (0746 & 1353 ex-Barrow, 1029 & 1634 ex-Airport) is showing as two coaches instead of three.
 
Last edited:
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Bovverboy said:
Diagram 1 (0746 & 1353 ex-Barrow, 1029 & 1634 ex-Airport) is showing as two coaches instead of three.
Click to expand...

darloscott said:
195007 on that today
Click to expand...

Meant 1029, of course. 195007 must have covered 5F91 (1910 Lime Street - Preston Croft Street Sidings ECS) last night in order to get on to Diagram 1 today. (First trip 0518 Preston - Barrow).
Seems like 195001 wasn't available today, therefore put its partner on something which can stand being a 2-car?
 
Last edited:
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
The diagram booked for 2x195/0 is still showing as short-formed as three coaches, for the rest of the usual 2x195/0 journeys.

The 1516 Liverpool - Airport (this is diagrammed for the double 195/1) is showing as having been cancelled at Warrington Central. The return (1645 ex-Airport) is showing as starting from Oxford Road, and formed of two coaches instead of four. (Hold on - isn't the diagrammed formation six coaches?)

EDIT: RTT shows the 1516 as having terminated at Hunts Cross, and then run ECS to Warrington Central Carriage Sidings. As it doesn't appear to have called at Warrington Central (station), this version of events is presumably correct.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Trying to put two and two together, the 1516 ex-Lime Street may have set off as a double 195/1, but on encountering difficulties at Hunts Cross been split and the two units sent to Warrington Central Carriage Sidings separately. I can't find any trace of a subsequent movement, so however many units have gone there, they're probably still there.
The following 1519 stopper was, a few minutes ago, stuck at Hunts Cross over an hour late. The 1551 EMR left Lime Street at 1640, 49L. The 1556 stopper left at 1619, 23L, but has dropped off the tracking after Edge Hill so may have gone via Chat Moss. (1619 is the departure time of the next stopper, so this journey could be a compromise between the two). The 1616 semi-fast has gone at 1642, 26L, and the 1619 stopper was, a few minutes ago, still at Lime Street.
Any fans of 195s still out there?
 
Last edited:
LeylandLen

LeylandLen

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2013
Messages
779
Location
Leyland Lancs
Bovverboy said:
The diagram booked for 2x195/0 is still showing as short-formed as three coaches, for the rest of the usual 2x195/0 journeys.

The 1516 Liverpool - Airport (this is diagrammed for the double 195/1) is showing as having been cancelled at Warrington Central. The return (1645 ex-Airport) is showing as starting from Oxford Road, and formed of two coaches instead of four. (Hold on - isn't the diagrammed formation six coaches?)

EDIT: RTT shows the 1516 as having terminated at Hunts Cross, and then run ECS to Warrington Central Carriage Sidings. As it doesn't appear to have called at Warrington Central (station), this version of events is presumably correct.
Click to expand...

Ive been told 2 units on this service 1H40 units 195 102 & 124 ,there is a photo , not that it shows too much (not seen it myself)
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Well, whoever it was that thought trains were going to get back to normal seems to have been disappointed. The 1519 ex-Liverpool stopper appears to be still stuck at Hunts Cross (or, for whatever reason, dropped off the tracking). The 1551 EMR seems to be stationary at South Parkway. The 1556 stopper has reappeared on its route at Deansgate, effectively confirming that it was diverted via Chat Moss. The 1616 Airport semi-fast has been terminated at South Parkway, and the 1619 stopper looks to be a second one to have been diverted via Chat Moss. The 1650 EMR and 1656 stopper are still at Lime Street.
 
Last edited:
B

Boysteve

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2013
Messages
235
Location
Manchester
I think this is the latest;
1516 Liverpool - Airport (195 6car?); terminated at Hunts Cross but shown as occupying the block section to Hough Green still!
1519 Liverpool - Oxford Road; terminated at Hunts Cross and now heading back to Lime Street as 2T97
1551 Liverpool - Norwich; Terminated at LSP Platform 1 and still blocking. All Runcorn-bound services having to use Platform 3
1556 Liverpool -Oxford Road; Ran via Chat Moss, and has formed the 17:16 peak service back to Liverpool
1616 Liverpool - Airport; Terminated at LSP and still occupying Platform 4
1619 Liverpool - Oxford Road; Running via Chat Moss
1650 Liverpool - Nottingham; Not departed (at 17:20) but not showing cancelled. EMT do sign Chat Moss though.
1656 Liverpool - Oxford Road; Still at Liverpool but Northern website tells you it will also run via Chat Moss
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Boysteve's comments above do update my own information in respect of the 1519 and 1551. In respect of the 1619 stopper, I did omit to mention that it departed 32L. Another cancellation now is the 1715 Liverpool - Airport semi-fast. Also cancelled (completely) is the 1645 Airport to Liverpool semi-fast, this was going to be restarted at Oxford Road, but that hasn't happened.
I notice that all cancellations are being put down to 'a problem with the brakes', this apparently being the reason for the failure of the 1516. I don't see anything wrong with the explanation of 'a broken down train', myself.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
The 1650 EMR has now been cancelled. The 1656 stopper has departed at 1727 and is running via Chat Moss.

It does seem odd that the 1650 EMR hasn't been diverted, since, as Boysteve points out, EMR crews do sign Chat Moss.
 
B

Boysteve

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2013
Messages
235
Location
Manchester
Bovverboy said:
The 1650 EMR has now been cancelled. The 1656 stopper has departed at 1727 and is running via Chat Moss.
It does seem odd that the 1650 EMR hasn't been diverted
Click to expand...

It now appears that the stock for the EMR 1650 will now form the 1750 departure instead. The stock due in from Norwich 17:27 was delayed at Warrington Central.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
The 1719 stopper has departed at 1750 and is going via Chat Moss. Cancellations in the opposite direction are now starting to take effect, because, of course, the trains are still stuck at Liverpool.
 
Last edited:
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
It seems the 1719 didn't go Chat Moss after all, even though the tracking indicated that it was going to. It ran to South Parkway, was terminated there, and is now on its way back to Liverpool. The 1755 stopper does look as though it is going Chat Moss, however. The 1816 semi-fast has been cancelled, as has the 1819 stopper; the 1750 EMR is still at Lime Street.
 
Last edited:
4

43055

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
2,902
Bovverboy said:
It seems the 1719 didn't go Chat Moss after all, even though the tracking indicated that it was going to. It ran to South Parkway, was terminated there, and is now on its way back to Liverpool. The 1755 stopper does look as though it is going Chat moss, however. The 1816 semi-fast has been cancelled; the 1750 EMR is still at Lime Street.
Click to expand...
EMR 1750 has departed via Huyton to Manchester and by the looks of things a 8 car with the sets of the 1551 and 1650 departures. Possibly waiting for train crew of the original 1750 as they do sign this route?
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
It looks as though the CLC route is open once more, the 1855 stopper has left Lime Street 5L and gone that way, without let or hindrance, up to now. Strangely, the 1851 EMR, which didn't actually depart Lime Street until 1911, is going Chat Moss. There must have been some impediment to its departure at the moment the CLC route was reopened. The 1915 Airport semi-fast is shown as running, but it hasn't left Lime Street yet. The 1919 CLC stopper has gone at 1921.
Things should get back to normal pretty quickly now, although there's still scope for one or two cancellations, with crews being in the wrong place, for instance.
 
B

Boysteve

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2013
Messages
235
Location
Manchester
No Eastbound departures from Warrington Central between 15:36 and 19:44. A 4 hour blockage for a single broken down train seems over the top. I guess a 15X cannot just couple to a 195 and move it along!
 
L

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,955
There are quite a few of us who are pretty sure what the issues were this afternoon, and that the massive delays caused were almost certainly preventable with better training of drivers (and to an extent, controllers). This almost certainly won't be the last such incident with these units.
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
0518 Preston - Barrow and 0746 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled this morning. (Train fault).
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
The scheduled 6-car journeys, 0613 Lime Street - Wilmslow and 0748 return, have been cancelled completely. Reason varies between late from the depot and a fault on the train.
Diagram 11 (the double 195/0 diagram) is apparently being covered by a single 195/1, as yesterday. In respect of most of the relevant journeys, 'Journey Check' is giving a formation of three coaches instead of five!
 
B

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,933
Bovverboy said:
0518 Preston - Barrow and 0746 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled this morning. (Train fault).
Click to expand...

In the event, the 0746 ex-Barrow was started at Preston at 0908, using a Sprinter (?) which had been sent ECS from Newton Heath. Arrival at Preston was 0533 - not too late, you might have thought, to work a delayed 0518 Preston - Barrow; I mean, trains run much later than 15L. Makes you wonder if there is more to the tale than has been admitted.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top