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Staff member assaulted at Manchester Piccadilly

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Peter C

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From what I saw, the other member of staff attempted to grab him, the vile piece of excrement got free and then the other staff member went to check on his colleague. If the member of staff had struggled with the excrement resulting in injuries to the child it wouldn't have looked good on the staff member. I find it puzzling that a serious assault occurs yet you seem concerned with what an innocent railway staff member did in the aftermath.
He did the right thing given the circumstances.
As for the incident, normally I like to be reasonable and adopt the 'there's two sides to every story' type of attitude. But in this case, there is no excuse for this behaviour and I sincerely hope he is caught and severely punished for his disgusting actions that there is never an excuse for.
(My bold)
Apologies. I didn't see the other member of staff attempting to grab him. I saw it as him trying to push him away, because he was so annoyed and wanted to get to the assaulted staff member to check she was alright.
I believe I did share my opinions on the assault. I spent more time in my post being angry at the man than being "concerned" for the other member of staff.
It was merely a case of me assuming he was doing something else.

When he is eventually caught, I hope that he is punished for both assaulting the member of staff, causing disorder, and all of the other things which he did.
What a horrible, horrible piece of scum who, as I said earlier, doesn't deserve the right to travel on our railways or be treated with any sort of respect. He can't show respect to others - why should we show respect to him?

-Peter
 
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Mathew S

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Exactly. He is such a horrible person that I am struggling to find words to describe it. "Bad" doesn't cut it.

-Peter
For what it's worth, I find it helps to judge the behaviour, not the person.

Whilst there is no excuse for such deplorable behaviour, there is undoubtedly a reason it happened. In the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor incident; although there are the aggravating factors of the child's presence, and that the victim was a uniformed member of staff. It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker. So, whilst condemning and punishing the behaviour, engaging some empathy and attempting to understand why this happened - and therefore can be prevented from happening again - is somewhat more productive than chants of "lock him up."
 

Geezertronic

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For what it's worth, I find it helps to judge the behaviour, not the person.

Whilst there is no excuse for such deplorable behaviour, there is undoubtedly a reason it happened. In the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor incident; although there are the aggravating factors of the child's presence, and that the victim was a uniformed member of staff. It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker. So, whilst condemning and punishing the behaviour, engaging some empathy and attempting to understand why this happened - and therefore can be prevented from happening again - is somewhat more productive than chants of "lock him up."

I completely disagree. No empathy is required for this, there is nothing in this world that justifies the attack so we do not need to try and understand why this happened, and the prevention is a custodial sentence for someone who is obviously used to using violence particularly towards women
 

Peter C

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For what it's worth, I find it helps to judge the behaviour, not the person.

Whilst there is no excuse for such deplorable behaviour, there is undoubtedly a reason it happened. In the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor incident; although there are the aggravating factors of the child's presence, and that the victim was a uniformed member of staff. It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker. So, whilst condemning and punishing the behaviour, engaging some empathy and attempting to understand why this happened - and therefore can be prevented from happening again - is somewhat more productive than chants of "lock him up."
Assaulting someone who was just doing their job is not on. Anyone who does that does not deserve the right to be treated with respect. He obviously cannot show respect to others and so if we as a society pay him respect we are simply telling him "yeah, we know you attacked someone, but hey, that doesn't matter". I am sick and tired of hearing people say "Don't judge them, something is the cause and there must be a reason." because, quite frankly, we need to look at this man and say "He attacked someone, that is a crime, and he will be punished for it" instead of "let's do something, he must have done it for some reason".

-Peter
 

Peter C

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No we don't. Retaliation is not the same as provocation, and should not be judged the same.
I've just realised I misinterpreted @Mathew S 's original post here.
If we show this man respect after he has attacked a member of staff for just doing their job, we are telling him that it is alright for him to do that and that he can go around doing it and there will not be any repercussions.
If we do not show him respect, we are telling him that we are fully aware and disgusted by what he has done.

We are currently unaware as to what the member of staff involved did in full detail, but we know that she was just asking for his ticket. He then became agitated and attacked her. We do not know whether she said something to provoke him.

-Peter
 

londonbridge

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Assaulting someone who was just doing their job is not on. Anyone who does that does not deserve the right to be treated with respect. He obviously cannot show respect to others and so if we as a society pay him respect we are simply telling him "yeah, we know you attacked someone, but hey, that doesn't matter". I am sick and tired of hearing people say "Don't judge them, something is the cause and there must be a reason." because, quite frankly, we need to look at this man and say "He attacked someone, that is a crime, and he will be punished for it" instead of "let's do something, he must have done it for some reason".

-Peter

The same can be said for verbal abuse. Kid came in the shop and asked for cigarettes, but he had no ID, so I refused him. After a minute or so of arguing he called me a f****ng idiot, so I told him to leave. couple of nights later he came back in waving his ID right under my nose with a "Eh, boss, u gonna sell me some fags now, yeah"? attitude. In a split second decision I said I still wasn't serving him. He argued that he'd shown me his ID this time, and I replied by saying that he didn't have to swear at me on the previous occasion so I still wasn't serving him. After a bit more arguing I said that he couldn't come in and swear at me one night and them come back and expect me to serve him as if nothing had happened, but that I would serve him if he apologised for swearing. Supervisor came over, after a bit more arguing, including him (the kid) arguing that I HAD to serve him because he'd shown me his ID, the kid left, still without any cigs.
 

Peter C

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The same can be said for verbal abuse. Kid came in the shop and asked for cigarettes, but he had no ID, so I refused him. After a minute or so of arguing he called me a f****ng idiot, so I told him to leave. couple of nights later he came back in waving his ID right under my nose with a "Eh, boss, u gonna sell me some fags now, yeah"? attitude. In a split second decision I said I still wasn't serving him. He argued that he'd shown me his ID this time, and I replied by saying that he didn't have to swear at me on the previous occasion so I still wasn't serving him. After a bit more arguing I said that he couldn't come in and swear at me one night and them come back and expect me to serve him as if nothing had happened, but that I would serve him if he apologised for swearing. Supervisor came over, after a bit more arguing, including him (the kid) arguing that I HAD to serve him because he'd shown me his ID, the kid left, still without any cigs.
Exactly. That kid wanted to purchase some cigarettes. Any "reason" for him wanting to buy them is irrelevant here. He swore at you, was rude, and then still expected you to serve them. That is not on and should never happen.

-Peter
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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From what I saw, the other member of staff attempted to grab him, the vile piece of excrement got free and then the other staff member went to check on his colleague. If the member of staff had struggled with the excrement resulting in injuries to the child it wouldn't have looked good on the staff member. I find it puzzling that a serious assault occurs yet you seem concerned with what an innocent railway staff member did in the aftermath.
He did the right thing given the circumstances.
As for the incident, normally I like to be reasonable and adopt the 'there's two sides to every story' type of attitude. But in this case, there is no excuse for this behaviour and I sincerely hope he is caught and severely punished for his disgusting actions that there is never an excuse for.

I hardly class what the other member of staff did as anywhere near "grabbing him" it looks like he thought about it and bottled it......so he got away.
 

Antman

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seems Daily Mail is covering it. So it'll be in the Sun in two days time.

Looking at his attire, he's channelling those Burnage Diplomat siblings, so hopefully a local that someone with a sense of dignity will shop him.
 

Bromley boy

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I completely disagree. No empathy is required for this, there is nothing in this world that justifies the attack so we do not need to try and understand why this happened, and the prevention is a custodial sentence for someone who is obviously used to using violence particularly towards women

Absolutely.

The reason scum like this behave as they do is because they know there is little risk of being caught, and no proper punishment will
be forthcoming even if they are.
 

muz379

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Interestingly, there seems to be another member of staff who lets him through, but after the man has assaulted the woman, the other member of staff does nothing! Hmm...
Given he has just seen a staff member assaulted I would say he responded with great restraint and rightly was more concerned with the welfare of his colleague , unfortunately given the whole thing was on CCTV trying to intervene even to restrain the offender until the police arive fairly often results in the staff member getting into bother .
For what it's worth, I find it helps to judge the behaviour, not the person.

Whilst there is no excuse for such deplorable behaviour, there is undoubtedly a reason it happened. In the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor incident; although there are the aggravating factors of the child's presence, and that the victim was a uniformed member of staff. It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker. So, whilst condemning and punishing the behaviour, engaging some empathy and attempting to understand why this happened - and therefore can be prevented from happening again - is somewhat more productive than chants of "lock him up."
I personally think that the following is a weak cop out "It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker". Whilst he might not have planned it before going out , the person shown here in the video is clearly the sort of person who has no issue with doing that when confronted by someone doing their job so in my view is just as bad as someone that intended to carry out such acts . Someone that behaves like that in such situations has no place in society .
 

Peter C

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Given he has just seen a staff member assaulted I would say he responded with great restraint and rightly was more concerned with the welfare of his colleague , unfortunately given the whole thing was on CCTV trying to intervene even to restrain the offender until the police arive fairly often results in the staff member getting into bother .
Fair point - I didn't think of that.

-Peter
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Nasty NASTY man. What a vile creature, and it makes me worry for what the girl (his daughter?) has to put up with at home.

Foul scum, ought to be arrested and put away. Poor woman.
 

Mathew S

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I completely disagree. No empathy is required for this, there is nothing in this world that justifies the attack so we do not need to try and understand why this happened, and the prevention is a custodial sentence for someone who is obviously used to using violence particularly towards women
As I said in the post you were replying to, I agree with you there is no excuse for what he did. As for custodial sentences, all of the evidence is that the only thing that short prison sentences do is increase the chance that someone will re-offend. Far better a longer community order (e.g. two or three years) where he can be supervised by a probation officer and hopefully any further offending can be prevented.

Assaulting someone who was just doing their job is not on. Anyone who does that does not deserve the right to be treated with respect. He obviously cannot show respect to others and so if we as a society pay him respect we are simply telling him "yeah, we know you attacked someone, but hey, that doesn't matter". I am sick and tired of hearing people say "Don't judge them, something is the cause and there must be a reason." because, quite frankly, we need to look at this man and say "He attacked someone, that is a crime, and he will be punished for it" instead of "let's do something, he must have done it for some reason".

-Peter
I'm sorry, but I find that morally repugnant. I volunteer alongside people with serious criminal convictions (including both murder, and serious sexual offences, in some cases against children). I would not dream of treating any of those people with any less respect than I would anyone else. Firstly because it is simply good manners, but secondly because offenders who go on to change the circumstances of their lives, engage in society, and form lasting social relationships are far, far less likely to ever offend again, which is better for everyone.

It is perfectly possible to punish someone for a crime they have committed - which is, of course, what should happen - and still empathise with the circumstances which led to the offending taking place.

I've just realised I misinterpreted @Mathew S 's original post here.
If we show this man respect after he has attacked a member of staff for just doing their job, we are telling him that it is alright for him to do that and that he can go around doing it and there will not be any repercussions.
If we do not show him respect, we are telling him that we are fully aware and disgusted by what he has done.

We are currently unaware as to what the member of staff involved did in full detail, but we know that she was just asking for his ticket. He then became agitated and attacked her. We do not know whether she said something to provoke him.

-Peter

Are you seriously saying that it's not possible to express that what someone has done is wrong respectfully? Because that's just not true.

I personally think that the following is a weak cop out "It's unlikely that this person, whoever he is, went out with his child that day intending to assault a railway worker". Whilst he might not have planned it before going out , the person shown here in the video is clearly the sort of person who has no issue with doing that when confronted by someone doing their job so in my view is just as bad as someone that intended to carry out such acts . Someone that behaves like that in such situations has no place in society .

The law disagrees. Having planned in advance to carry out such an act would be an aggravating factor. A spur of the moment loss of temper - for example - is likely to receive a lesser sentence.
 

Peter C

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I'm sorry, but I find that morally repugnant. I volunteer alongside people with serious criminal convictions (including both murder, and serious sexual offences, in some cases against children). I would not dream of treating any of those people with any less respect than I would anyone else. Firstly because it is simply good manners, but secondly because offenders who go on to change the circumstances of their lives, engage in society, and form lasting social relationships are far, far less likely to ever offend again, which is better for everyone.

It is perfectly possible to punish someone for a crime they have committed - which is, of course, what should happen - and still empathise with the circumstances which led to the offending taking place.



Are you seriously saying that it's not possible to express that what someone has done is wrong respectfully? Because that's just not true.
If someone thinks it is perfectly alright to attack someone for doing their job, they can get as far away from me as possible and not expect any respect.
It is possible to express what someone has done is wrong in a respectful manner, yes.

-Peter
 

Peter C

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Nasty NASTY man. What a vile creature, and it makes me worry for what the girl (his daughter?) has to put up with at home.

Foul scum, ought to be arrested and put away. Poor woman.
Couldn't put it better myself.

-Peter
 

GodAtum

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i highly doubt he will be put away, just given a slap on the wrist.
 

muz379

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The law disagrees. Having planned in advance to carry out such an act would be an aggravating factor. A spur of the moment loss of temper - for example - is likely to receive a lesser sentence.
Your point being , just because the sentencing guidelines indicate one thing does not mean that I cannot take a different moral view on a persons conduct .

I think someone that is prepared to use violence when prevented from doing something they are not allowed to do is just as bad as someone that pre plans an attack .

Of course it would be bizarre for someone to intend to go out and attack a member of rail staff they have never experienced before , but is there not a degree of premeditation involved in knowing that you will use violence if challenged . In my view walking around with such readiness to use violence is just as bad as arming yourself to commit a robbery intending to use said weapon against someone that attempts to stop you .Obviously ignoring the difference in sentencing provisions for assault/battery vs robbery


Anyhow my point is what the law says is not the only factor in how we behave or perceive each others Beavoir , morality also plays a huge part .
 

muz379

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My point purely being that the law disagrees with you. Never intended to say you aren't entitled to your views at all.
I'm not sure I completely agree with what you say about pre-meditated intent to be violent, but everyone's different.
Tell me the difference between the following two then and which one is more severe in your view , not interested in what the law says just interested in your moral view .

1, Lets go and give him a slap , he did something which I perceived as wronging me

2,Lets go and bunk our train fare , and if someone tries to stop us we will give them a slap
 

Mathew S

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Tell me the difference between the following two then and which one is more severe in your view , not interested in what the law says just interested in your moral view .

1, Lets go and give him a slap , he did something which I perceived as wronging me

2,Lets go and bunk our train fare , and if someone tries to stop us we will give them a slap
I'd say they're roughly the same, in my view.
I would argue, however, that deliberate pre-planning to, for example, film yourself assaulting a member of rail staff and going to the station specifically for that purpose would be more serious.
 

matt

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Thread locked. If anyone has any information then please contact the British Transport Police.
 

syorksdeano

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Follow up from this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/staff-member-assaulted-at-manchester-piccadilly.189451

It would appear that he has been in court and has got 200 hours community service, to pay £100 compensation and has to pay £175 costs.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/panicked-rail-passenger-who-punched-16867106.amp

0_Darren-Corr-snatch.jpg




Today, Manchester Magistrates Court heard after getting off a train with his three-year-old daughter Corr approached the ticket guard on platform five and asked to be let through the barrier.

She asked to see his ticket, he told her his wife had it then lifted his daughter over the barrier, banging her head on a girder in the process.

Corr was then heard to say ‘What have you f****** done?’ before punching the victim in the face ‘with a clenched fist’.

Alan Bakker, prosecuting, described the attack as ‘totally unprovoked’.


He added it had left the guard ‘dazed’ and suffering from swelling and bruising to her cheekbone and said she had taken long periods off work since

Paul Green, defending, told the court, Corr has difficulty ‘managing his emotions’ and was thought to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder after being the victim of a knife attack.

Police hunt passenger who punched female ticket guard at barriers at Manchester Piccadilly station

Mr Green said when the service arrived at Piccadilly, Corr was ‘panicking and in a heightened state of anxiety’ because his wife, who was late and had missed the train, had the tickets.

“He accepts full responsibility for the assault,” added Mr Green.

“He knows people working on the frontline do not deserve to be treated like that.”

The court heard Corr, a customer service advisor, of Bird Hall Road, has nine previous convictions for 14 offences....
 
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Kingspanner

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That is not "getting away with it". 200 hours community service when you have a family and apparently a job is a burden. It meets the needs for punishment, reparation, deterrence etc which are the purposes of sentencing. Remember the sentencing authority has the advantage of all the evidence as well as reports which go way beyond the headlines reported by the press.
 

greyman42

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These magistrates must be thick to believe any of his defence. He should have gone to jail when you consider his previous episode with the telly in the pub.
 

Llanigraham

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Follow up from this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/staff-member-assaulted-at-manchester-piccadilly.189451

It would appear that he has been in court and has got 200 hours community service, to pay £100 compensation and has to pay £175 costs.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/panicked-rail-passenger-who-punched-16867106.amp

And therefore the title of this thread is incorrect.
He did NOT get away with it.
He was found GUILTY and therefore now has a criminal record and his punishment was 200 hours community service, pay compensation and costs.
That sentencing seems to be in line with the Sentencing Guidelines that the Court has to abide by.
 

theking

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This country's liberal criminal justice system is a complete joke, he is a serial offender and gets nothing that will affect him.

And people wonder why guards and railway staff don't get involved past a certain point with fare evaders and trouble makers when this is the consequences the offender will get.
 

Ash Bridge

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Absolutely disgraceful, 14 previous convictions and walks away yet again with hardly more than a slap on the wrist! How long will it be until yet someone else suffers because of his seemingly uncontrollable temper?
 
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