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First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

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capital12

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Envoy said:
Well, I just hope that First don't use that dark gunky green that they have on the GWR. The ones covered in vinyl look even worse than those that have proper paint. A pity that they didn’t/t sound out potential liveries on Rail Forums! The LNER livery looks much smarter as does Trans Pennine Express.
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Funny old world, but I much prefer the GWR livery to the LNER! GWR being much more ‘now’ and contemporary than the dated looking, and gaudy, LNER/TPE which would have probably been ok 15 years ago.

Although possibly not as dated as the new EMR logo!

I agree about the vinyled units looking bad though!
 
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Bletchleyite

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capital12 said:
Funny old world, but I much prefer the GWR livery to the LNER! GWR being much more ‘now’ and contemporary than the dated looking, and gaudy, LNER/TPE which would have probably been ok 15 years ago.
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I like all three, though the LNER "sweep up" at the cab end looks odd and might be better done differently.

Although possibly not as dated as the new EMR logo
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Yes, as I've said on that thread that one looks like something you'd see on a rotting Mk1 at a preserved line, not a modern DMU or EMU.

I agree about the vinyled units looking bad though!
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Yes, the ones with the white showing are a really cheap job.
 
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LMSR

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
While I’m not a fan of the livery without window bands, I think the Class 390 Pendolinos look very smart in all over white and grey doors with the window bands, it’s simple but smart.

Does anyone know - will First Trenitalia keep them in this white with grey doors and just do what Virgin have done by putting their brand at the ends of the train? Because I think that would look very smart - indeed the Virgin Trains repainted ones (with bands) do look very nice in this simple and effective white. Or will the Pendolinos receive yet another complete repaint.
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Hi newbie here,
I think the new First/Trenitalia WCML services will be branded "LMS/R Trains" and liveried in the original retro burgundy colours albeit with a modern take on it.
 
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ScottGallagher

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In the interim its probably ok but will they want heritage like LMS as a brand on (if it gets built) new HS2 lines? Politics might deem it too drab.

It will be nice to have a striking new livery plus proper redecoration of the stations, I find it strange that in 22 years brand obsessed Virgin didn't ever replace signage that is still Intercity themed such as at Wigan/Lancaster, and just paid less interest in station experience as a whole than you would expect.
 
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Mogz

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I think it would be wonderful to see the LMS brand rise from the ashes as Southern Railway, GWR and LNER have done.

It would represent a continuing trend away from the franchise holder stamping their identify all over the railway then having to change the brand and colours when a franchise changes. This started with Cross-Country, which was a formal and informal name since steam days, through Intercity, Virgin and now Arriva for long distance services which avoided London.

If nothing else, it will save repainting every time a franchise changes!
 
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Bletchleyite

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ScottGallagher said:
In the interim its probably ok but will they want heritage like LMS as a brand on (if it gets built) new HS2 lines? Politics might deem it too drab.

It will be nice to have a striking new livery plus proper redecoration of the stations, I find it strange that in 22 years brand obsessed Virgin didn't ever replace signage that is still Intercity themed such as at Wigan/Lancaster, and just paid less interest in station experience as a whole than you would expect.
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Of course the IC red fitted their brand!

As a point of order on signage, Warrington BQ is fully BR signed (not even IC-era - simple Rail Alphabet black on white), but that was done afterwards, as the station was refurbished at the time the franchise was going to be handed over to First, so was done with completely neutral branding.
 
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ScottGallagher

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Bletchleyite said:
Of course the IC red fitted their brand!

As a point of order on signage, Warrington BQ is fully BR signed (not even IC-era - simple Rail Alphabet black on white), but that was done afterwards, as the station was refurbished at the time the franchise was going to be handed over to First, so was done with completely neutral branding.
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I just meant that across the whole of the WCML Virgin stations there is/was no consistency but for example with Northern there is (who have way more stations to manage even though it s still Serco style), and the grey signage they have at some places (assuming its Virgin branding) is very un kept and faded, So the Intercity ones lasted a lot longer!!

If you stepped in to a Virgin Atlantic plane, lounge or departure gate you wouldn't find branding or signage from the 80's or 90's still in situ.
 
59CosG95

59CosG95

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ScottGallagher said:
I just meant that across the whole of the WCML Virgin stations there is/was no consistency but for example with Northern there is (who have way more stations to manage even though it s still Serco style), and the grey signage they have at some places (assuming its Virgin branding) is very un kept and faded, So the Intercity ones lasted a lot longer!!

If you stepped in to a Virgin Atlantic plane, lounge or departure gate you wouldn't find branding or signage from the 80's or 90's still in situ.
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Well, the railway & aviation industries are very, very different...
 
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ScottGallagher

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Bletchleyite said:
I wouldn't get fixated on the WCML in terms of scruffy stations. The innersuburban ones on GWR are far, far worse. LM and LO show us how to do it well, by comparison.
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Spot on about LO , my comparison was meant to highlight virgin as a brand being consistent within their respective areas and quite brand focused not compare aviation to rail but as long as the roof doesnt leak its far less of an issue but still a noticeable one.
 
cactustwirly

cactustwirly

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Bletchleyite said:
I wouldn't get fixated on the WCML in terms of scruffy stations. The innersuburban ones on GWR are far, far worse. LM and LO show us how to do it well, by comparison.
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The GWR ones are actually not that bad, the TfL ones are a bit grim, but they're like construction sites for Crossrail atm
 
pdeaves

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Tom Maddox said:
Reckon it’ll be LMS in Crimson Lake.
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When First got South Western, people (generally) seemed pretty sure the outcome would be a modern take on L&SWR colours. As it turned out, that was not the chosen look and is quite unlike anything else. Transpennine also has its distinct, not-related-to-history, look. I personally would be surprised if the final West Coast livery bore any resemblance to a historical scheme. Any one of us could, of course, end up surprised!
 
tpjm

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hexagon789 said:
Dark navy and orange was mentioned on another forum.
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Might not be the best choice for First considering they just sold off part of the Manchester bus network to Go Ahead and that’s the branding they’ve chosen for their new livery!

I did some fantasy mockups a few months ago in which I will post later if I have time (pure speculation and exploration!)
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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tpjm said:
Might not be the best choice for First considering they just sold off part of the Manchester bus network to Go Ahead and that’s the branding they’ve chosen for their new livery!

I did some mockups a few months ago which I will post later if I have time (pure speculation and exploration!)
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It'll be interesting to see if that's what they do choose.

Sure, I always love to see other people's creativity.
 
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Andyh82

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Whatever it is, I just hope it isn’t initials involving the letters ‘L’ or ‘R’ and not some overly old traditional looking style.

GWR stood out when they launched it, now everyone is something Railway.

I don’t expect a good livery though, London Midland, EMT, SWT are all better than the ones that have replaced them. It’ll be white based with some very minor colour no doubt.
 
Railperf

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I would love to see a variant of the Trenitalia Frecciarossa / Frecciaargento liveries! Although I fear the similarity to Virgin Trains original livery might scupper that.
 
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Chris217

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All over white with bits added on
is unimaginative.
As we al know,white doesn't stay
white for long on our trains.
Tfl's red on white is disappointing.
Maybe if they added a bit of green,then at
least they would have represented all three
colours of the Welsh flag.

LNER is another appalling livery.
White with red window surrounds and upswept ends.

The Pendalino trains would look a lot smarter with all coaches painted in the same livery. White is just lazy IMO.

GWR looks fine tbh and its kept its yellow ends.

I hope the new Pendo livery will be bold and smart,with something that stands out.
And use proper company names.
Seems we are heading back to the big four of sorts lol,with all these initials
 
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Fez14

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This not happening then?

67496187_123016399005456_4043028498033129270_n.jpg
66773271_381711279193183_1461983549254009893_n.jpg
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Fez14 said:
This not happening then?

67496187_123016399005456_4043028498033129270_n.jpg
66773271_381711279193183_1461983549254009893_n.jpg
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That is one of the ugliest trains I’ve ever seen, and I’m very very fed up of retro style naming and everything being abbreviations of London/Great something railway. So much repetition. Pathetic. I only hope worst group go for West Coast Rail but I have a nasty feeling LMS will creep in.
 
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Mogz

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May I be the first to declare that I would LOVE to see that happen.
 
Skimble19

Skimble19

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ScottGallagher said:
No offence but that is horrible on a Pendo at least
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I really don't get this obsession with bringing back old fashioned and dated branding. It just looks appalling and has no place on the mainline in 2019. GWR is a nice mix of old and new, but that's about as far as it should go.
 
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