Aviation Discussion

Shaw S Hunter · 20 Aug 2019

YorkshireBear said:
A Ural Airlines A321 has crash landed shortly after takeoff near Moscow. There are YouTube videos avaliable in links here https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429277 of take off and landing taken from the plane.

Appears to hit a flock of seagulls at rotation and loses power in the left engine a few seconds later and then loses power in the right engine. By the time it reached the end of the runway (in the air) it had already lost climb and started a glide descent. Fortunately cornfields are beyond the runway threshold and therefore the crew managed to ditch it into a cornfield with no fatalities. Fortunate as well no fire developed and evacuation was succesful.

The link to airliners Forum contains a wealth of information which i have tried to summarise briefly here.

Good outcome to something that was potentially catastrophic at many other airports!

By all accounts this was an even better example of fine piloting under pressure than the "Miracle on the Hudson": this flight had barely a third of the altitude and less speed giving the flightcrew much less time to make their decisions. Yet their forced landing on ground was pretty much by the book, ie all fuel systems shut down, landing gear left up and a well executed tail-down landing. Given the generally rather poor safety record of Russian aviation I think it's worth highlighting this particular display of professionalism.

Crawley Ben said:
Delta Airlines are returning to London Gatwick from 22nd May 2020.

They will launch a new route to Boston operated by a 165 seater Boeing 757 on a daily basis.

Virgin Atlantic will also be launching a New York Service from Gatwick on 21st May 2020. This flight will also be daily, and will use an Airbus A330-200 with 266 seats.

Cheers

Ben

Similar move at MAN next year: Delta is taking over the MAN-BOS route from Virgin replacing the 3x weekly A330 with a daily 757, though summer only as now. Suggestions elsewhere that Delta is generally beefing up their operation at BOS to defend against a likely increase in Jet Blue services there with TATL being a distinct possibility.

Also much speculation as to whether Virgin might be interested in replacing Jet A/w on MAN-BOM, a route for which there has long been a demand but needs someone to get the numbers right.

RailUK Forums

YorkshireBear · 20 Aug 2019

Shaw S Hunter said:
By all accounts this was an even better example of fine piloting under pressure than the "Miracle on the Hudson": this flight had barely a third of the altitude and less speed giving the flightcrew much less time to make their decisions. Yet their forced landing on ground was pretty much by the book, ie all fuel systems shut down, landing gear left up and a well executed tail-down landing. Given the generally rather poor safety record of Russian aviation I think it's worth highlighting this particular display of professionalism.

Completely agree to get all that done and successfully ditch in such a short space of time is a massive massive achievement.

Western Lord · 20 Aug 2019

YorkshireBear said:
Completely agree to get all that done and successfully ditch in such a short space of time is a massive massive achievement.

Technically speaking, you only ditch on water!

Crawley Ben · 21 Aug 2019

China Eastern are increasing their service from Gatwick to Shanghai from 3x weekly to daily service from 27th October using Airbus A330-200 aircraft.

Air China are to launch a new service between Gatwick & Shanghai starting 02nd November 2019. The flights will be 4x weekly using Airbus A350-900 XWB aircraft.

Cheers

Ben

WestCoast · 21 Aug 2019

Aictos said:
What are the interiors like onboard though too? catering wise they do sound much better then BA, I used to fly with BA specifically for the catering.

Thanks for the above, didn't realise Lufthansa was so tight with the miles tho!

Nice enough interiors, 2-2 leather seating on the Embraer E170s/E190s although I can't think of an uncomfortable Embraer I've been on - they are my absolute favourite short-haul aircraft for comfort no matter the airline, for flights up to 4 hours I I'd rather fly on one than a B737/A320 any day. Although, I haven't been on the LOT 737s so can't comment.

WestCoast · 21 Aug 2019

Crawley Ben said:
China Eastern are increasing their service from Gatwick to Shanghai from 3x weekly to daily service from 27th October using Airbus A330-200 aircraft.

Air China are to launch a new service between Gatwick & Shanghai starting 02nd November 2019. The flights will be 4x weekly using Airbus A350-900 XWB aircraft.

Cheers

Ben

It seems loads of new routes from China to Europe are being launched, I was recently in Shanghai and saw lots of flights to all sorts of places in Europe, even to places like Budapest and Prague. No stopping the growth in the Chinese tour group market.

scotrail158713 · 21 Aug 2019

WestCoast said:
Nice enough interiors, 2-2 leather seating on the Embraer E170s/E190s although I can't think of an uncomfortable Embraer I've been on - they are my absolute favourite short-haul aircraft for comfort no matter the airline, for flights up to 4 hours I I'd rather fly on one than a B737/A320 any day. Although, I haven't been on the LOT 737s so can't comment.

Apologies if I’ve got this wrong - I don’t know aircraft types greatly. But if E170/190s are what Flybe have as their non-turboprop planes then I agree - I flew Manchester to Milan on one last year and it was much nicer than the Ryanair 737 I flew on in April.

Aictos · 21 Aug 2019

WestCoast said:
Nice enough interiors, 2-2 leather seating on the Embraer E170s/E190s although I can't think of an uncomfortable Embraer I've been on - they are my absolute favourite short-haul aircraft for comfort no matter the airline, for flights up to 4 hours I I'd rather fly on one than a B737/A320 any day. Although, I haven't been on the LOT 737s so can't comment.

I’ve used the BA ones and they’re quite comfy, it’s just a pain that they only seem to be used on routes to/from LCY - wouldn’t mind if they got used on LGW...

YorkshireBear · 21 Aug 2019

scotrail158713 said:
Apologies if I’ve got this wrong - I don’t know aircraft types greatly. But if E170/190s are what Flybe have as their non-turboprop planes then I agree - I flew Manchester to Milan on one last year and it was much nicer than the Ryanair 737 I flew on in April.

Doesn't take much to beat ryanair.

But yeah the flybe jets are excellent took one Manchester to Paris last year. Also the Embraer 145 is a nice little plane too, loved my trips Manchester to Inverness on them. Very comfortable for a small 1 + 2 seated jet.

gsnedders · 21 Aug 2019

Aictos said:
I’ve used the BA ones and they’re quite comfy, it’s just a pain that they only seem to be used on routes to/from LCY - wouldn’t mind if they got used on LGW...

BA has them because the E-190 is about as large as you can land at LCY!

They do get used for other routes, but primarily (solely?) charters at weekends.

TheEdge · 21 Aug 2019

gsnedders said:
BA has them because the E-190 is about as large as you can land at LCY!

They do get used for other routes, but primarily (solely?) charters at weekends.

The BA flights from Stansted seem to be mainly in the hands of their E Jets.

My experience of a Flybe E195 was very pleasant. Comfortable little jets.

Aictos · 22 Aug 2019

gsnedders said:
BA has them because the E-190 is about as large as you can land at LCY!

They do get used for other routes, but primarily (solely?) charters at weekends.

Actually I think you find the largest aircraft that can use LCY is the Airbus A318 which has been modified with a steep approach function however since BA sold one of their two aircraft, you only get the one there now.

Crawley Ben · 22 Aug 2019

Wizz Air are to launch flights their first flights from London Southend Airport to Bucharest (5x weekly) and to Vilnius (2x weekly). The flights will be starting in November.

They are also beginning daily services from London Luton to Vienna, and twice weekly flights to Castellon starting in December.

Cheers

Ben

Aictos · 22 Aug 2019

Crawley Ben said:
Wizz Air are to launch flights their first flights from London Southend Airport to Bucharest (5x weekly) and to Vilnius (2x weekly). The flights will be starting in November.

They are also beginning daily services from London Luton to Vienna, and twice weekly flights to Castellon starting in December.

Cheers

Ben

I guess they're going to rival the likes of Easyjet, BA etc on the London to Vienna route, that would be good for competition especially if they're lower fares?

TheEdge · 22 Aug 2019

Aictos said:
Actually I think you find the largest aircraft that can use LCY is the Airbus A318 which has been modified with a steep approach function however since BA sold one of their two aircraft, you only get the one there now.

I was going to be that smart alec but took a quite look at the figures. The E-190 is longer than the A318 and has a normal cabin for use from LCY rather than the all business affair. So I'd argue the E190 is the biggest thing in LCY, with the A220-100 a close second (if its flying yet)

Aictos · 22 Aug 2019

TheEdge said:
I was going to be that smart alec but took a quite look at the figures. The E-190 is longer than the A318 and has a normal cabin for use from LCY rather than the all business affair. So I'd argue the E190 is the biggest thing in LCY, with the A220-100 a close second (if its flying yet)

However if the A318 has a all economy interior then it would have more seats then the E190 wouldn’t it?

TheEdge · 22 Aug 2019

Aictos said:
However if the A318 has a all economy interior then it would have more seats then the E190 wouldn’t it?

Is an A318 with a normal cabin able to operate from LCY or is it only the cut down version?

gsnedders · 22 Aug 2019

TheEdge said:
Is an A318 with a normal cabin able to operate from LCY or is it only the cut down version?

The cabin doesn't make any difference; what it can't do is take off at MTOW (so can't have a full tank of fuel), people/cabin fit out is just not that significant.

Aictos said:
However if the A318 has a all economy interior then it would have more seats then the E190 wouldn’t it?

132 in a dense single-class setup for the A318, versus 114 for the E-190. I did say about as large for a reason.

TheEdge said:
I was going to be that smart alec but took a quite look at the figures. The E-190 is longer than the A318 and has a normal cabin for use from LCY rather than the all business affair. So I'd argue the E190 is the biggest thing in LCY, with the A220-100 a close second (if its flying yet)

Swiss have been operating a CS100/A220-100 from LCY–ZRH for years at this point (long before Airbus bought it!). At maximum density it's 135 seats, so in seat terms larger than an A318 too. (Though again needs to be near its maximum performance and nowhere near MTOW to take off from LCY.)

Note an E2-190 can take off at MTOW from LCY (just!), which will be interesting to see if anyone decides to operate longer distance flights.

gsnedders · 22 Aug 2019

TheEdge said:
The BA flights from Stansted seem to be mainly in the hands of their E Jets.

Ah yes, that's done for the same reasons as the charters, just directly marketed by BA: with LCY having limited opening hours at the weekend and much fewer passengers, providing something for the aircraft to do.

TheEdge · 22 Aug 2019

gsnedders said:
Note an E2-190 can take off at MTOW from LCY (just!), which will be interesting to see if anyone decides to operate longer distance flights.

So are the big E-Jets the largest things that can operate at MTOW from LCY?

scotrail158713 · 22 Aug 2019

gsnedders said:
Ah yes, that's done for the same reasons as the charters, just directly marketed by BA: with LCY having limited opening hours at the weekend and much fewer passengers, providing something for the aircraft to do.

I presume that’s what the BA flights from Edinburgh, Manchester etc to non-London destinations are doing as well?

berneyarms · 22 Aug 2019

scotrail158713 said:
I presume that’s what the BA flights from Edinburgh, Manchester etc to non-London destinations are doing as well?

Yes - one of the aircraft normally spends weekends in Dublin and during the summer it heads to Manchester for summer sun flights.

gsnedders · 22 Aug 2019

scotrail158713 said:
I presume that’s what the BA flights from Edinburgh, Manchester etc to non-London destinations are doing as well?

A lot of the ex-EDI and ex-GLA flights are charters by Barrhead Travel, if I'm not mistaken.

TheEdge said:
So are the big E-Jets the largest things that can operate at MTOW from LCY?

Note it's only the E2-190 that can; none of the others can, including any of the original E-Jets. The E2-195 with the significantly higher MTOW but the same engines can't. Dunno if there's anything larger, but I'd doubt it. It's near the large end of aircraft for LCY to start with!

TheEdge · 23 Aug 2019

So, for the purposes of interest what's the theoretical largest aircraft that could take off (or land) at LCY?

Could a minimum weight 737 do it? Anything bigger?

And, while LCY trivia is on my mind, does LCY accept emergencies or do they get diverted to one of the other London airports?

Mike395 · 23 Aug 2019

I'd say a minimum weight Airbus A319/320 possibly, I wouldn't have thought a 737 could safely clear the short runway.

Re emergencies, any in the London area are normally routed to Heathrow/Gatwick/Stansted/Luton, as pilots/aircraft not using LCY typically aren't set up for the steep approach. Exception is if an aeroplane which has taken off from LCY encounters an issue below a certain altitude threshold.

YorkshireBear · 23 Aug 2019

Anyone got any strong recommendations between Air Canada and BA? Comparing the two as both seem best value for flights to vancouver direct anyway. Still very deep in comparing prices.

Bletchleyite · 23 Aug 2019

Stansted is the airport of choice for London-area emergencies if possible, I believe.

Bletchleyite · 23 Aug 2019

YorkshireBear said:
Anyone got any strong recommendations between Air Canada and BA? Comparing the two as both seem best value for flights to vancouver direct anyway. Still very deep in comparing prices.

I've used AC twice (777-300ER and 787) and I quite like it, but I generally do like the approach of "fly the national airline of the place you're going" as an extension of your trip, and I find BA somewhat mediocre (though sometimes reassuringly so).

Bald Rick · 23 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Stansted is the airport of choice for London-area emergencies if possible, I believe.

Correct. It has a long runway that can accept any aircraft; isn’t as busy as Gatwick / Heathrow so any event causes less disruption to other flights, and has lots of space in the airfield to park planes ‘out of the way’ of normal operations.

YorkshireBear · 23 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I've used AC twice (777-300ER and 787) and I quite like it, but I generally do like the approach of "fly the national airline of the place you're going" as an extension of your trip, and I find BA somewhat mediocre (though sometimes reassuringly so).

Indeed that is what I am currently thinking. The only thing in my head is that I think the September LHR to Vancouver flights are A380s which I've always wanted to go on but haven't managed to yet. No real prospect of me heading anywhere other than North America anytime soon so wondered if this was my chance. Suppose BA fly A380s to plenty of other NA destinations.

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