Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Above the solebar I'm a great fan, personally, but it does seem the mechanical side is rather less of a success. I do hope a solution is found.
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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail
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Above the solebar I'm a great fan, personally, but it does seem the mechanical side is rather less of a success. I do hope a solution is found.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
From the text of his email update it appears he is doing a feature on engine cooling problems, covering also what has happened to the 80x units. So in that context it's reasonable to concentrate on this particular issue, as he's not claiming to be looking at overall service experience with 230s. Unlike most people on this forum he does have hands-on experience of rail diesel engines, albeit more than 50 years ago!
I haven't seen the article yet so can't comment on whether it is actually as he suggests.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I have no issue with Mr Ford beyond the fact I don't like his writing style or his focus on dry technical gubbins. Personally, I am more interested in the experiences of people stood in the rain at the station waiting for the train. I realise that to dare to criticise Mr Ford is sacrilegious in the enthusiasts community but I am entitled to express my own opinion.
I bet you get air conditioning! I would be happy to visit the area but it is unlikley to be any time soon.
Agreed and it is incredibly frustrating that issues are not reducing. This week we have had units running on low power with engines out of use. Trains are very late and have been cancelled. That isnt "cooling" related!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
That is fine. Perhaps a future episode will feature a full investigation of the class 230.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
3 x Class 142 might be a reasonable short-term drop-in while the issues with the 230s are sorted...
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The 230's offer much better facilities for passengers. They just arent working well. Yet/still
Depends whether you want an unreliable service which is a better environment to be in, or a dogbox which is much more reliable but stinks of weed. Back in the day I just liked to get home! The 153 did it almost perfectly.
In most communities (in this case rail, but there are other areas where it happens) you get minor celebrities who can do little wrong in the eyes of some.
I however tend to (and by the sounds of things so do you) look at what's being produced and like what's good and ignore what's bad (until it it's highlighted as great by the fans). Anyone can have off days (in terms of quality), likewise they can come to a different conclusion on something (not always linked) which just doesn't sit with your own views.
I was once listening to a talk by someone of some note in the area they were taking on, they made a clearly opposite to what they thought statement to emphasise the point (a valid method of communication) however a LOT of the audience didn't pick this up (many more than should have been the case given the context) and clapped the point as if it were the correct way of thinking just because of the status of the person involved.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I want both a reliable train and a comfortable one! The 153 wasnt THAT reliable at the best of times!
Today`s run cancelled?
I did say 'may' appear. Vivarail book a sequence of paths on the Cotswold Line with Network Rail. Whether or not they are actually used is another matter.
It was just the same when the LNR units were being prepared for delivery. Lots of days had paths showing for test runs. The number of days when a 230 appeared was pretty limited and it will probably be the same with testing of the Welsh sets.
Brissle Girl
Established Member
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I guess Modern Railways does position itself at the technical end of the market for rail magazines, and as far as I can see Informed Sources is designed to meet the need for people who find such things interesting. There are lots of other publications, and indeed other parts of Modern Railways that look at other aspects of developments in the rail industry, so the market is well catered for your needs. Just because you don't find his articles interesting doesn't mean that his views and insight are neither valid or interesting to others.
Neen Sollars
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Thanks for the explanation jimm.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I never said they were invalid.
I just dont like the style via which they are expressed nor do I like the way this particular columnist is considered almost omnipotent by enthusiasts.
However because I no longer take enthusiast magazines I doubt my views are of much weight!
krus_aragon
Established Member
The way you phrase that makes me think of "take three times a day, with meals" or somesuch!
Neen Sollars
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In theory with less than 10 minute turnarounds at Bedford and Bletchley they could use battery trains on the Marston Vale line. Recharge from a pantograph at Bletchley and put the electric shoe in at the bay platform at Bedford? Hopefully there would be places on the MV line for a bit of power regeneration.
Yes, there is potentially the battery solution.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm fairly sure this was discussed (a long way) upthread and it was concluded that charging at one end (Bletchley due to the long layover) would be sufficient.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
paul1609
Established Member
The charging issue will be battery temperature I suspect, if its like all EV Cars you can rapidly charge once but a second recharge will then be painfully slow. The batteries heat up both when discharging and charging. This limitation doesn't seem to be well understood or publicised.
supervc-10
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That problem is more seen with the Nissan Leaf, which doesn't have active thermal management of the battery pack. Keep the battery at the correct temperature, and it's capable of multiple fast charges.
Or in the case of the IoW, the electric shoegear.
paul1609
Established Member
Doesn't active cooling management mean thermostatically controlled fans which reduces the overall efficiency and therefore range?
krus_aragon
Established Member
Thermal management could also mean using the battery's power to warm the battery up in very cold conditions. Batteries don't charge and discharge very well at extreme temperatures, so the battery will last longer if you do this (but at the expense of reducing your range for that trip).
Harpers Tate
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If the cooling occurs whilst the thing is on charge, which is when it matters most (i.e. to avoid the very issue you incorrectly claim applies to "all" EVs), the it has no effect on range; only a virtually undetectable increase to the charge time. Even my relatively inexpensive EV (it was £25k new) has this. Successive charges after driving do not take noticeably longer than the first. The second generation Leaf does expericence what you describe; Nissan elected to provide no battery cooling. I believe this car may be unique in that respect. In the UK, my car's range/efficiency is at its best when the ambient temperature is comfortable for me (without having to overdress) as well. The car itself doesn't get less efficient when it gets warmer (in the UK, which means typically up to 30c) but use of aircon for comfort decreases range. The car does get less efficient when its cold, when the battery is being heated (and so am I).
paul1609
Established Member
Thats interesting I've only driven a Tesla S for one trip where only a single partial recharge was required and various Nissan Leafs and had discounted purchasing an EV on the poor range (much much worse than the published figures) and the inability to repeat rapid charge which I had assumed all EVs suffered with to various degrees.
zn1
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with the transit engines being used, what are FORD doing to assist in the adapted environment their engines are being used in..in my mind to enable futher cooling a frontal oil cooler and liquid radiator system could be the key to this, with a reverse air ram system that can be used when vehicle is working in what would be reverse direction ...just a thought
Think we're getting quite off topic here! If anyone wants to continue the automotive discussion please do so on a new thread as this one is about the 230s only.
hooverboy
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to be honest what's required is a higher capacity/lower rev engine .truck or bus engines would be a better fit than a commercial van block.
just so happens that a lot of automotive guys have decent sized hybrid blocks of a similar spec to the 2* transits now.
caterpillar,cummins,rolls/MTU all have something in the 6Litre/6cyl range capable of pumping out 300-400BHP at 1500RPM.
460BHP(2*230) for a 18m carriage that only does 60mph is overkill anyway.
Considering a sprinter is only 1*285BHP per car you'd expect anything over that to go like a rocket!
an eco-flirt with 2*20m cars+2/3 sized power pack would be ideal.
(not really future proofed though is it? it's very short term considering EWR will be running soon..would be better/cheaper to just extend platforms and use a 158)
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