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Hull Trains 802: Construction updates

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cactustwirly

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From what I can remember they started borrowing the TPE IETs before the East Midlands franchise was awarded.

Also unless I'm mistaken don't Grand Central have first refusal over where the HT 180s go?

No why would you think that?
The lease of the HT 180s has nothing to do with GC!
EMR have signed an agreement with Angel trains for the 180s, therefore HT would have to give them up when their lease expires
 

NoMorePacers

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No why would you think that?
The lease of the HT 180s has nothing to do with GC!
EMR have signed an agreement with Angel trains for the 180s, therefore HT would have to give them up when their lease expires
I heard it off of someone on a Facebook group - therefore I asked if it was the case.
 

Railperf

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Because franchise bid managers evidently don't consider past fleet reliability performance in their calculations.
That is absolute madness and a major flaw in the franchise bidding process. But that didn't apply to Hull Trains.
So is there any truth in the rumour that Hull trains took the decision to to lease class 802s because they would have been given a slower timetable by retaining the class 180s?
 

swt_passenger

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I heard it off of someone on a Facebook group - therefore I asked if it was the case.
I think many people across various rail forums have been assuming for a couple of years that the 180s from HT would default to GC, (as the only other user), but I doubt there’s ever been a guarantee of that.
 

Polarbear

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Why would anybody want one of the country's most unreliable trains in their fleet without serious modification?

Unfortunately for those travelling on the MML, the incoming franchise hasn't had much of a say in what stock they are using to start replacing the HST's, nor are there many alternatives readily available. Nice as they are to travel on, below the solebar, 180's are a dogs dinner.
 

Clarence Yard

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As someone who has affair knowledge of what is going on in Hull Trains, GC would have taken the HT cl.180 if their extra services (to Cleethorpes, amongst other places) had been authorized by the ORR - HT were asked by GC about release dates, etc. But when that stalled, GC stalled on taking any more. So they were then touted around the industry by Angel and picked up as part of the successful EM bid.

The real problem with the future rolling stock for Hull was that the HT cl.180 fleet may not have been big enough for the ECML timetable recast (which could have required 4 units in traffic), the cl.180 fleet would struggle to keep up with a cl.80x timetable structure and using a bi-mode keeps the cost of diesel down. Add to that the greater capacity, and the ageing of the cl.180 fleet and you start to have a strong business case to get your track access rights extended for a considerable period.
 

samuelmorris

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802s made absolute sense for HT for so many reasons. Commonality with units operated by other FG TOCs, commonality with other stock used on the ECML, bi-mode capability, active production line and so on.
 

swt_passenger

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As someone who has affair knowledge of what is going on in Hull Trains, GC would have taken the HT cl.180 if their extra services (to Cleethorpes, amongst other places) had been authorized by the ORR - HT were asked by GC about release dates, etc. But when that stalled, GC stalled on taking any more. So they were then touted around the industry by Angel and picked up as part of the successful EM bid.

The real problem with the future rolling stock for Hull was that the HT cl.180 fleet may not have been big enough for the ECML timetable recast (which could have required 4 units in traffic), the cl.180 fleet would struggle to keep up with a cl.80x timetable structure and using a bi-mode keeps the cost of diesel down. Add to that the greater capacity, and the ageing of the cl.180 fleet and you start to have a strong business case to get your track access rights extended for a considerable period.
Does that imply the existing GC 180s might also prove unsuitable in conjunction with a fully re-cast ECML timetable?
 

ainsworth74

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May HT not have any choice? The 180s are wanted at MML promptly aren't they?

It has everything to do with HT wanting shot of their horrifically unreliable 180s (see the continual HST hire ins at what I'm sure is no small expense!!) rather than any concerns regarding other operators!!
 

ainsworth74

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Reminder that this thread is regarding the introduction of 802s with HT. Whilst I can see a bit of overlap with the 180s going off lease and this thread there's no need to discuss the wider issues of EMR taking the 180s on from HT. Particularly as that's being done to death on the relevant thread for the EMR franchise!!!
 

westv

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Last week I tried to book an airline style seat for 28/10 but without success. HT's told me that they are just issuing seat numbers (F or B) as by then they may have three types of train in service.
 

ainsworth74

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Last week I tried to book an airline style seat for 28/10 but without success. HT's told me that they are just issuing seat numbers (F or B) as by then they may have three types of train in service.

Well I have it on good authority that driver training has started for Hull Trains so it can't be that far away now their introduction...
 

800001

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Well I have it on good authority that driver training has started for Hull Trains so it can't be that far away now their introduction...

Correct, started today using a TPe 802.

works Doncaster - Hull, then a few trips to Peterbough and back, then back to Doncaster.
 

Hasan Shah

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Correct, started today using a TPe 802.

works Doncaster - Hull, then a few trips to Peterbough and back, then back to Doncaster.
Do hull trains go to Peterborough now or only when the new trains come in service
 

NoMorePacers

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I think they're stopping at Peterborough either due to the capacity issues south of there, or the Bank Holiday engineering works.
 

RealTrains07

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HT 802 interior looks great

How many of the sets have been built?

It cant take much longer considering their is only 5 of them?
 

westv

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They don't normally normally because of potential revenue abstraction from the franchised operators (LNER and GTR)
And the journey is long enough already without adding another stop.
 

ainsworth74

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I think they're stopping at Peterborough either due to the capacity issues south of there, or the Bank Holiday engineering works.
Indeed why go all the way to London with the attendant pathing issues when you're just training drivers on the traction?
 

swt_passenger

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I think they're stopping at Peterborough either due to the capacity issues south of there, or the Bank Holiday engineering works.
These are STP training runs and aren’t in the system after Friday until Tuesday. It isn’t that unusual for traction training runs to only use a shortened route, ie the drivers already have the route knowledge so don’t necessarily have to run over the whole route every time.
 

ainsworth74

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Discussion regarding whether or not TPE should have loaded HT an 802 for their driver training can now be found here.
 

BR67

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HULL TRAINS REVEALS NAME OF NEW £60M FLEET

Hull Trains has officially named its £60m new fleet of trains which will revolutionise travel between Hull and London.
The five Hitachi trains will form Hull Trains’ Paragon fleet – a name chosen due to its stand-alone meaning and its significance in Hull.
A Paragon means someone or something which is the very best. It is defined by The Oxford English Dictionary as a model of excellence – which is exactly what these high-tech five trains will be when they arrive on the tracks later this year.

https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2019/hull-trains-reveals-name-of-new-fleet
 

sprinterguy

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Let's hope that they stay with the company longer than the "Pioneers" did!

Worth noting that the same article also invites naming suggestions for the individual units:
Help us name the individual trains
There will be no mistaking the Paragon fleet. Hitachi has used its Japanese bullet train technology to make the trains light and aerodynamic. They will stand out due to their innovative design - but they each need a striking name too.

Hull Trains has asked its customers to help name the individual trains. Their names should reflect the significant investment and celebrate Hull’s culture. The names should celebrate everything that is good about Hull.

If you have an idea of what you would like these trains to be called, please email [email protected] with your suggestions.

You can also have your say on social media. Look out for the posts on the Hull Trains Facebook and Twitter pages.

Hull Trains will officially name the five trains before they pull into service later this year.
 
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