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LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

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Bletchleyite

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Well, no, I doubt posters here count for anything unless they are employed by the railway.

But if it was glaringly obvious to me (as a non-employee of the railway) that it wasn't going to work, it must have been obvious to a fairly large number of railway staff at all levels that it wasn't going to work either. That they were presumably ignored is the problem.

We now move on to how can it be fixed?
 
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And to think LNR were prepared with military style precision for the new timetable
What’s that quote based on?

There was a doc called Stakeholder Spring Briefing 9 April 2019 which included the following, see final bullet point:

· Currently 10 services terminate and start –turnrounds -at New St every off-peak hour which occupy platforms

· May 2019 adds two more services which would be 12 but our changes mean we will only have THREE turnrounds

· Platform occupation will be reduced from 114 minutes to only 65 minutes

· New St has the highest level of reactionary delay on the network so this will improve performance for all operators

· New portion working for New St but we have been preparing for this with a military-style process​
 

DarloRich

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Is that because the people such as the posters here don't count for anything in the eyes of the people running our railways, and that they are convinced that they know better? That's certainly a feeling I get from this.

this is an internet forum. It has no standing with the railway.
 

87015

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Oh so they prepared lots on how to spilt and join but didn’t bother to get the trains there on time for it. That’s ok then.
 

RealTrains07

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The timetable cant go back to how it was before because New Street still has an problem of platform occupancy

Any other way of solving this by not creating a disastrous timetable as this?
 

Bletchleyite

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The timetable cant go back to how it was before because New Street still has an problem of platform occupancy

Any other way of solving this by not creating a disastrous timetable as this?

It could probably be improved by putting additional units and crews into the diagrams (haven't the Government just acquired some? :D ) and increasing the outer end layovers and those at Northampton. Also simplify the diagrams into distinct groups so there is no knock-on - i.e. a unit and driver/guard only works services on one of the "branches" rather than moving between them.

(I mean including say Bletchley drivers/guards picking up the southern section of the routes)

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with the service pattern, just with the lack of resource and therefore complexity in its operation.
 

RealTrains07

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It could probably be improved by putting additional units and crews into the diagrams (haven't the Government just acquired some? :D ) and increasing the outer end layovers and those at Northampton. Also simplify the diagrams into distinct groups so there is no knock-on - i.e. a unit and driver/guard only works services on one of the "branches" rather than moving between them.

(I mean including say Bletchley drivers/guards picking up the southern section of the routes)

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with the service pattern, just with the lack of resource and therefore complexity in its operation.
Completely agree but could having individual train units and crew assigned to certain routes/services make it difficult though due to unit availability at some points of the day

I.e space at Euston for turnout and timings as routes don’t follow a fixed pattern of stops throughout the day

Would be a great improvement for the trent valley services as it would at least hopefully guarantee fixed 8 car diagrams especially after the 350/4s arrive
 

frodshamfella

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Chris Stokes, in the September 2019 edition of Modern Railways, states


He also observes that it's especially worrying that this happened after the previous year's timetable fiasco elsewhere.

I'm glad that I no longer need to travel from Wilmslow to Birmingham, because prior to May 2019 I used the Liverpool-Birmingham service which was excellent and reliable. I don't think it is any more.

I feel that in both timetable cases, the people responsible for implementing the timetable either didn't listen to or ignored those who cautioned against the changes, and this thread demonstrates the many valid concerns which were raised. Is that because the people such as the posters here don't count for anything in the eyes of the people running our railways, and that they are convinced that they know better? That's certainly a feeling I get from this.

The Liverpool to Birmingham ( or London Euston) LNW is not as reliable. Was waiting yesterday at Acton Bridge to get to Crewe for a connection onto Virgin to Euston. It was quite late, only just made it.
 

pt_mad

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Can't as it isn't finalised nor bid as far as I'm aware, but I expect it will leak out soon enough. When the grapes on the vine told me I had to raise eyebrows though.
When is the deadline for submission and would it not be on RTT fairly soon?
 

The Planner

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When is the deadline for submission and would it not be on RTT fairly soon?
They would spot bid the changes, it would have to be fairly soon if they go ahead with it from the actual change date, they might hold off for a bit and introduce it mid timetable but that would likely confuse people.
 

Baxenden Bank

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They would spot bid the changes, it would have to be fairly soon if they go ahead with it from the actual change date, they might hold off for a bit and introduce it mid timetable but that would likely confuse people.
Confusion would be a train actually turning up at Stone at the advertised time, rather than being cancelled/diverted!
 

RealTrains07

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Confusion would be a train actually turning up at Stone at the advertised time, rather than being cancelled/diverted!
True that :lol:

Wont be too long now considering they need time to publish and announce the changes officially to their customers probably most likely around October i would say?
 

Bletchleyite

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Confusion would be a train actually turning up at Stone at the advertised time, rather than being cancelled/diverted!

Quite.

Yet more delay repay to claim after yesterday's "performance" (which came quite close to causing me to miss a theatre performance).

It's truly awful. You could set your watch by LM most of the time. It's quite shocking just how badly wrong this has gone.
 

DavidGrain

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I see that the West Coast Partnership franchise includes running trains from Walsall to London. I know that Walsall has been campaigning for years to get a direct service to London but two TOCs looks like too much to me. Are we in danger of running out of track on which to run all these new trains?
 

Baxenden Bank

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Quite.

Yet more delay repay to claim after yesterday's "performance" (which came quite close to causing me to miss a theatre performance).

It's truly awful. You could set your watch by LM most of the time. It's quite shocking just how badly wrong this has gone.
There are 33 trains scheduled to call at Stone weekdays.

Taking The Daily Telegraph letter writers line....

Am I the only person to think that this means that they should actually provide 33 services per day. Furthermore, such a performance is not a cause for praise nor celebration, rather it is their contractual obligation. Anything less is a failure to deliver.

In the 6 days commencing 5 August, a very bad week for all concerned: 197 scheduled departures, 133 on-time (or close to), 26 over 10 minutes late, 38 cancellations (or diversions away from Stone which is essentially a cancellation).

It could be worse, I could be trying to travel between Rugeley and Birmingham.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Agreed.



Heard the same. Suspect from different vine based produce.
Indeed. More resource required.

Sending an on-time service via Madeley rather than Stone (for reasons of lack of staff route knowledge) is incomprehensible to the passenger, especially when it is poorly explained, if at all. Similarly running ECS Crewe to Birmingham via the scheduled route and times is just rubbing your face in it. Stand there and watch your train go sailing past! LMR website often only refers to problems/remediation/ticket acceptance south of Birmingham (OK it is the busy bit), giving no information or guidance for those north of Birmingham. Stone is unstaffed so no-one to go to for help. The D & G service 14 rail-bus does not go near the station, the alternative First bus service 101 does not go near the station. Even if you are local you may not know of these potential alternatives. Train users are often not bus users as well.

Suggestion 1: a hot spare at Walsall. Runs Walsall to Rugeley at the advertised times when necessary and turn the London at Walsall - not as a scheduled occurrence as that would just shift the late-running/short turning problem to Bescot, or Aston or New Street.
 

Bletchleyite

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I see that the West Coast Partnership franchise includes running trains from Walsall to London. I know that Walsall has been campaigning for years to get a direct service to London but two TOCs looks like too much to me. Are we in danger of running out of track on which to run all these new trains?

While the WCML is pretty busy (hence the need for HS2) that isn't fundamentally the issue - it's just excessively tight diagrams. For instance, my train yesterday (that was about 25 late in the end) was on time to Northampton. It only didn't leave Northampton on time because the traincrew to take it south were coming up on a delayed train from Euston and arrived there late. Because NMP has enough platforms this doesn't cause the kind of block-up you get on Northern in Manchester, but it is clear that simply loosening crew diagrams off a bit (i.e. adding say a 30 minute non-PNB break into that specific changeover) would solve the vast majority of the problem. Throw a few more units in too and separate the diagrams out (ideally to Euston-Rugeley/Liverpool, Euston-Rugeley not Liverpool, Euston-Crewe via the wobble, Euston-Crewe via TV, Euston-Tring/MKC) and I think it could easily return to LM levels of performance, if not better.

The through services themselves aren't the issue (after all, XC can manage to operate Dundee to Penzance punctually most of the time), it's just the fact that they are inadequately resourced and too closely interlinked.
 

Bletchleyite

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More trains on the Cov corridor will help I’m sure. Nothing to do with revenue coming first at all.

The only additional trains that the new timetable added were, I believe, a couple of peak extensions from Bletchley/MKC back to Northampton and on Sundays between Coventry and Northampton (but not on any other day), plus the "wobble" train which I think was going to be the Wolves stopper but was actually an additional one north of New St (but a VT path was freed up when the Scottish service was rejigged).

It was mostly done by joining the legs of existing services together either side of New St.
 

RealTrains07

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Once the 350/4s are should help change things around.

If the rugeley & crewe splitter was separated into 2 services would that help?
 

RealTrains07

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So we don't think the proposals will work, then?

All it needs is more staff and more units. If they're doing it any other way (other than splitting it back up) mark my words again just like last time - it will not work.
Is their actually any other way apart from having the services split or not split

Those are the only 2 options i see working?
 

Bletchleyite

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Is their actually any other way apart from having the services split or not split

Those are the only 2 options i see working?

They could bring in additional units and traincrew. The main issue is caused by staff going near enough straight from one unit to the other at New St and Northampton (if you look at RTT you'll see those two locations are where most delay is being picked up). If you put in a non-PNB layover of 30 minutes or so (for crews only, not units) it would probably work as it is.

Most of the delays, if you look at it, are under 30 minutes (around 20 seems the usual), and the unit is mostly sat there waiting for a crew at those locations (and maybe Euston).
 
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RealTrains07

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They could bring in additional units and traincrew. The main issue is caused by staff going near enough straight from one unit to the other at New St and Northampton (if you look at RTT you'll see those two locations are where most delay is being picked up). If you put in a non-PNB layover of 30 minutes or so it would probably work as it is.
At least the split services would actually work
 
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