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Stations not centrally sited where previous central ones were closed

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Sad Sprinter

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Camberwell station was much nearer to Camberwell itself, you’ve not got to use Denmark Hill and Loughborough Junction where are all on Camberwell’s fringes.

Then of course there’s Croydon Central, although that was located to the South of East Croydon. Normally what we define as Central Croydon is between East and West Croydon, which would make sense...
 
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Scouseinmanc

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Liverpool Central (High Level) was definitely closer to the centre of Liverpool than Lime Street, though only roughly half the size.
Also, Manchester Central was more conveniently sited than Piccadilly, just faced the 'wrong way' (i.e; towards Liverpool & not London).
 
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edwin_m

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Merthyr Imp said:
I'd say Nottingham Victoria was more than slightly better located than the Midland station.
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The entrance to Victoria was probably about 150m closer to Market Square than the entrance to Midland. However at the time Victoria was open, with no Broadmarsh or Victoria Centre and Arkwright Street being a reasonably prosperous shopping area, the city centre itself was probably further south than it is today. In the 70s the Broadmarsh Centre and road junction effectively cut off the southern part of the city centre and the Meadows redevelopment destroyed some of it, which along with the Victoria Centre moved the centre of activity northwards. But this probably wouldn't have happened if Victoria station and the lines serving it hadn't been closed down. Current redevelopment aims to extend the city centre feel to and beyond Midland station.

Dr Day said:
Stations are both origins and destinations. A centrally located city centre station is preferable as a destination, so people can walk to their offices or the shops, however as an origin customers are likely to live in surrounding suburbs and an easy-to-get to out of town station, say with plenty of parking, may be preferable to struggling into the city centre to access the rail network.
Unfortunately the rail infrastructure capacity around most cities, particularly the smaller ones, typically doesn't enable the luxury of separate stations to serve both purposes.
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A station at the edge of the city leads to slower journeys for those travelling to, from or via the centre, and some prospective passengers will have to drive half way round or through the city to get to it. No city in the UK has made an edge-of-city station work for long-distance trains, unless there's some other factor such as airport access.

Much better in my view to have the main station close to the centre and provide good public transport to serve it. Nottingham is interesting in that respect, as the railway is effectively becoming the southern edge of the city centre. When the developments I mentioned above are complete, there will be good walking access from the north side of the station to the city centre and good road access into the car park on the south side. Unfortunately many of the bus routes don't get any closer than Victoria.
 
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edwin_m

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Scouseinmanc said:
Liverpool Central (High Level) was definitely closer to the centre of Liverpool than Lime Street, though only roughly half the size.
Also, Manchester Central was more conveniently sited than Piccadilly, just faced the 'wrong way' (i.e; towards Liverpool & not London).
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I'd say the real centre of Manchester is Piccadilly Gardens, for which Piccadilly is much closer.
 
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trebor79

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Norwich Victoria (where the Marsh offices now stand) was much closer to the city centre than Thorpe station.
 
Old Yard Dog

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Bradford Interchange
Bradford Forster Square

Neither by much, but Bradford Crossrail might have been more feasible in the last few years if neither had moved.
 
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stj

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A bit off topic but Bristol Temple Meads could be more central.
 
xotGD

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The current Great Central station serving Leicester is definitely less central than its predecessor.
 
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ANDREW_D_WEBB

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xotGD said:
Ottawa, if we want to look further afield.

Bath?
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Bath Spa and Green Park are both on the edge of the current city centre, although I would suggest it is probably quicker to walk to the main shopping centre from Bath Spa than it is from Green Park.
 
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BeijingDave

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Widnes Central closed and the station called (Farnworth and then) Widnes North became the main 'Widnes' station after Beeching.
 
Merthyr Imp

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edwin_m said:
The entrance to Victoria was probably about 150m closer to Market Square than the entrance to Midland. However at the time Victoria was open, with no Broadmarsh or Victoria Centre and Arkwright Street being a reasonably prosperous shopping area, the city centre itself was probably further south than it is today. In the 70s the Broadmarsh Centre and road junction effectively cut off the southern part of the city centre and the Meadows redevelopment destroyed some of it, which along with the Victoria Centre moved the centre of activity northwards. But this probably wouldn't have happened if Victoria station and the lines serving it hadn't been closed down. Current redevelopment aims to extend the city centre feel to and beyond Midland station.

When the developments I mentioned above are complete, there will be good walking access from the north side of the station to the city centre and good road access into the car park on the south side. Unfortunately many of the bus routes don't get any closer than Victoria.
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Having consulted a map, and from my own experience, I would say that from the Market Square, up King Street and round a couple of corners on to Milton Street and the main entrance to Victoria Station would be little more than a quarter of a mile. On the other hand, from the Market Square, down Exchange Walk, Lister Gate and Carrington Street to the Midland Station would be almost twice as far, i.e. half a mile. I certainly never managed to do it in less than 7 minutes.

When the Broad Marsh Centre was opened it could in fact be argued that it shifted the shopping area southwards and therefore brought the Midland station nearer the centre in that respect. I wouldn't count the old Arkwright Street as any more or less of a shopping area than Mansfield Road going up from Victoria station.

The Victoria and Broad Marsh centres are more or less equidistant from the Market Square, with the latter, as you say, becoming effectively the southern limit of the centre with the Midland station further on. Of course the bus routes used to get closer to it until the Broad Marsh bus station closed!
 
Springs Branch

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edwin_m said:
I'd say the real centre of Manchester is Piccadilly Gardens, for which Piccadilly is much closer.
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In larger cities like Manchester and Liverpool, what you might consider "the centre" tends to wander over the years, depending on the ebb and flow of economic fortunes and development.

Back in the 19th Century, when waistcoated & mutton-chopped mill owners came to peddle their wares at the Royal Exchange, you might argue that Manchester Exchange was the best located station for the "central business district" (even though that station was technically located in Salford).

50 years ago Manchester Victoria was in a shabby, run-down area away from the centre of gravity of the city centre - but things have improved since then with a much wider range of destinations in the vicinity of the station.

Similarly, Liverpool Exchange was very well located for the city's main central commercial area 100 years ago, but its replacement station at Moorfields has much lower patronage as types of economic activity and businesses have changed.
 
onlinespotting

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Gainsborough (worth a mention?) although it still retains central it is used once a week compared to the trek that is Lea Road which has a frequent service
 
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edwin_m

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Merthyr Imp said:
Having consulted a map, and from my own experience, I would say that from the Market Square, up King Street and round a couple of corners on to Milton Street and the main entrance to Victoria Station would be little more than a quarter of a mile. On the other hand, from the Market Square, down Exchange Walk, Lister Gate and Carrington Street to the Midland Station would be almost twice as far, i.e. half a mile. I certainly never managed to do it in less than 7 minutes.

When the Broad Marsh Centre was opened it could in fact be argued that it shifted the shopping area southwards and therefore brought the Midland station nearer the centre in that respect. I wouldn't count the old Arkwright Street as any more or less of a shopping area than Mansfield Road going up from Victoria station.

The Victoria and Broad Marsh centres are more or less equidistant from the Market Square, with the latter, as you say, becoming effectively the southern limit of the centre with the Midland station further on. Of course the bus routes used to get closer to it until the Broad Marsh bus station closed!
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As per posting above, the Victoria clock tower is about 500m from the Market Square which is indeed a little more than a quarter of a mile. The entrance to Midland is about 650m, which would be around 7min at a brisk walk but is nowhere near twice as far. It just feels further because of the obstruction of the Broadmarsh Centre and two busy roads to cross - all of which should improve radically in the next couple of years.

The nearest entrances of the two centres are indeed about equidistant from the Market Square, but because the axis of Victoria is north-south most of it is further away than the Broadmarsh which is more east-west. The bus station situation is temporary, buses in question stop on nearby streets until it is replaced on the same site.

My criticism of the bus network is more about how NCT from three points of the compass head for Victoria Centre requiring over 10min walk or another bus or tram to reach the station, and longer-distance buses from the north only serve Victoria bus station which feels to me even more remote from the city centre on the other side. But if the main station was at Victoria the main shopping would have been somewhere else - perhaps on the site of Midland! - so the buses would go there instead.
 
Revilo

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ANDREW_D_WEBB said:
The original train shed at Temple Meads is, fractionally, closer to the city centre than the structure currently in use.
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There was a station at Bristol St Phillips which was closer to the (then) heart of the commercial centre of Bristol, Old Market, before it was bombed in the war and the commercial centre moved to Broadmead. Station closed in 1953.
 
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Sad Sprinter said:
Then of course there’s Croydon Central, although that was located to the South of East Croydon. Normally what we define as Central Croydon is between East and West Croydon, which would make sense...
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It wasn't, it was to the north west of East Croydon station, where the Town Hall and Clocktower buildings are.

The "centre" of Croydon has shifted slightly northwards over time, one sign of this is the boundaries of South End / High Street / North End - these days you would expect North End to be the one named High Street.
 
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geoffk

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Belfast Central is not at all central and, at the time it opened, the much more central Great Victoria Street closed, but has since reopened.
 
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Surreytraveller

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mmh said:
It wasn't, it was to the north west of East Croydon station, where the Town Hall and Clocktower buildings are.

The "centre" of Croydon has shifted slightly northwards over time, one sign of this is the boundaries of South End / High Street / North End - these days you would expect North End to be the one named High Street.
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Still would have been closer than East or West Croydon. You can hang out at the West Croydon end of North End if you like, but I value my safety
 
duffield

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xotGD said:
The current Great Central station serving Leicester is definitely less central than its predecessor.
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To be fair though, the GCR do call it Leicester North rather than Leicester Central!

However, even though it's not exactly on the original site of Belgrave & Birstall station personally I would prefer it was called that as it has a nice ring to it - but from a commercial point of view Leicester North is probably more helpful.
At least the GCR has three superb near-original condition stations, I spend quite a lot of time there!
 
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edwin_m

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mmh said:
It wasn't, it was to the north west of East Croydon station, where the Town Hall and Clocktower buildings are.
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South West surely? You can see a retaining wall from the branch in the park just to the east.
 
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