The loss of FoM is a big red herring as far as the majority of the UK's population will be concerned.
Let's close your local hospital. That's not going to affect the majority of the UK's population.
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The loss of FoM is a big red herring as far as the majority of the UK's population will be concerned.
If they'd defined the undefined option. Or as that wasn't possible at the time they should have made clear beforehand that a Leave vote would be a mandate to negotiate, and the best deal obtainable would then be put back to the people.So how would the government be able to get in such a mess without marginally over half those voting to go for the undefined option?
From the Government's point of view, that would have made the "leave/negotiate" option more appealing. They wanted a resounding "remain" result instead. (Also, the ability to revoke Article 50 unilaterally wasn't established yet.)If they'd defined the undefined option. Or as that wasn't possible at the time they should have made clear beforehand that a Leave vote would be a mandate to negotiate, and the best deal obtainable would then be put back to the people.
Yet another aspect of the political miscalculation that led to this situation. Was it known at the time that the EU wouldn't negotiate until A50 was invoked?From the Government's point of view, that would have made the "leave/negotiate" option more appealing. They wanted a resounding "remain" result instead. (Also, the ability to revoke Article 50 unilaterally wasn't established yet.)
If they'd defined the undefined option. Or as that wasn't possible at the time they should have made clear beforehand that a Leave vote would be a mandate to negotiate, and the best deal obtainable would then be put back to the people.
PS - I am sure Bullsh*t Boris knows the history of Charge of the Light Brigade - it was a cockup within a marginal defeat within a very expensive and badly fought war which didn't have a clear winner. He was right on the button!
Yes. Or rather, it should have been. The text of Article 50 (my emphasis):Yet another aspect of the political miscalculation that led to this situation. Was it known at the time that the EU wouldn't negotiate until A50 was invoked?
Let's call a spade a spade & be honest about brexit. Fact is many people now want brexit at any cost. We're immune to project fear & insults. We are tired of traitors trying to thwart democracy. Yes we want brexit stubbornly,even if that means medical shortages & deaths. Problem?
It's more likely he will be one of the generals sat at HQ ordering others to do their dirty work. As you're no doubt aware, the current campaign "Led by Donkeys" takes its name from a similar attitude in a later war.Is Johnson set to re-enact the actions of Lt. General James Thomas Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan, leading the nation this time instead of a Brigade of Horse?
Let's close your local hospital. That's not going to affect the majority of the UK's population.
Let's close your local hospital. That's not going to affect the majority of the UK's population.
Or let’s recruit British staff instead, rather than relying on a concept most of the population don’t want and won’t ever utilise.
Let's be careful about throwing Freedom of Movement overboard. As it applies to UK citizens to live and work anywhere in the UK and to leave the country and return freely it is one of the fundamental rights embodied in common law and going back to Magna Carta, so we tend to take it for granted. But because it is in common law and we don't have a written constitution there is nothing (except our adherence to the European Declaration of Human Rights) to stop a government passing laws which infringe it. So whatever our pro-or anti- EU views, let's remember that Freedom of Movement as a concept is a good thing.
Or let’s recruit British staff instead, rather than relying on a concept most of the population don’t want and won’t ever utilise.
Let's close your local hospital. That's not going to affect the majority of the UK's population.
That won't happen any time soon as there simply aren't enough trained doctors and nurses. Nurses in particular are paid a pittance and there is little incentive to train, especially with the removal of all the bursaries.Or let’s recruit British staff instead, rather than relying on a concept most of the population don’t want and won’t ever utilise.
Yes sounds good. And when there aren't enough doctors and nurses to fill the vacancies because we can't produce enough of them at home to meet the demand?Or let’s recruit British staff instead, rather than relying on a concept most of the population don’t want and won’t ever utilise.
Or let’s recruit British staff instead, rather than relying on a concept most of the population don’t want and won’t ever utilise.
Let's face it, even if we did, who in their right mind would want to work under the stress and conditions of the NHS? As soon as they could wouldn't they migrate to Canada, Australia etc?? Same applies arguably with teaching?Yes sounds good. And when there aren't enough doctors and nurses to fill the vacancies because we can't produce enough of them at home to meet the demand?
Yes sounds good. And when there aren't enough doctors and nurses to fill the vacancies because we can't produce enough of them at home to meet the demand?
Nobody is suggesting keeping British citizens from leaving the country.
When other countries impose prohibitively strict restrictions on who can go there, many if not most British citizens are effectively barred from leaving.
What do you mean by "leaving"?
Which countries are you thinking of?
What is "prohibitively strict"?
Leaving = living permanently elsewhere
EU/EEA countries
Prohibitively strict = requiring a visa to get a job or even to live off your own funds.
You can't leave if you've nowhere to go because they won't let you in. Could I, for example, pack my case and go to, walk in and live/work in the USA or Australia just like I can, today, in the EU?What do you mean by "leaving"?
Which countries are you thinking of?
What is "prohibitively strict"?
You can't leave if you've nowhere to go because they won't let you in. Could I, for example, pack my case and go to, walk in and live/work in the USA or Australia just like I can, today, in the EU?
After October who knows, but with the removal of freedom of movement then the chances are it will be just as difficult to move to Spain as it - well - anywhere else in the world. Therefore a substantial number of us are UK-locked.
...that must surely result in thousands and thousands of ex-pats in the EU returning home? That would put more pressure on housing, the NHS and local services.
So it's fine to put pressure on local services and the health systems in other EU countries then? These are services someone else paid for and for which you, as a British person, never paid.