ScotRail under fire after major disruption around Edinburgh on Saturday 24 August

snookertam · 25 Aug 2019

ScotRail getting it in the neck again after apparent chaos on the last trains leaving Edinburgh last night. The last Saturday of the fringe, and a Scotland rugby international at Murrayfield meant that services were always likely to be very busy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49464767

ScotRail has come under fire from angry passengers amid major disruption to services to and from Edinburgh on Saturday night.

People travelling from Waverley and Haymarket complained that services were cancelled and trains were "dangerously overcrowded".

It was the last weekend of the Edinburgh festivals and Murrayfield hosted an international rugby match.

ScotRail apologised and said it did all that it could to meet demand.

Many passengers have taken to Twitter to criticise the train firm, claiming they failed to plan for the busy weekend.

One passenger, Lesley Eadie, told the BBC Scotland website there were chaotic scenes at Waverley station as staff apparently struggled to cope with the volume of people.

She said that at one point the police came in to remove passengers from a train, only for them to be asked to board the same vehicle a few minutes later.

When she eventually managed to board a train, passengers were "packed like sardines".

And she saw passengers pass a baby along the carriage, from the child's father to his mother.

"The family had sat down and the dad took the child - who was maybe 18 months or two years old - to the toilet," she said.

Another passenger, Jill Davis, told BBC Scotland she was concerned for safety on the train home to Glasgow.

"It was really dangerously, dangerously overcrowded," she said.

"There were children standing, I had my bike with me. It was just awful - really, really terrible."

"When they got out the train was so packed, he could get back to his seat.

"The passengers were just passing this baby back to his mother."

At the height of the disruption ScotRail was encouraging people travelling from Edinburgh city centre to consider making alternative arrangements.

A spokesman for the firm said: "We're sorry to our customers who have experienced disruption and busy services. We do all that we can to meet demand.

"Every available train we have is out on the network to get our customers where they need to be.

"Customers delayed by 30 minutes or more are encouraged to claim for money back via our Delay Repay Guarantee on our website or mobile app."

I would have thought with all that going on in Edinburgh that additional services might have been provided, however given that ScotRail have struggled to run their scheduled service at weekends then finding additional staff may have been a tall order.

I would also point out that the Edinburgh festival is now far too big for Edinburgh to cope with. This isn't just a railway issue, but a wider problem for the city's public services. A lot of Edinburgh people quite honestly don't want to know.

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Mag_seven · 25 Aug 2019

snookertam said:
I would have thought with all that going on in Edinburgh that additional services might have been provided,

I thought ScotRail already did provide additional services?

snookertam said:
I would also point out that the Edinburgh festival is now far too big for Edinburgh to cope with. This isn't just a railway issue, but a wider problem for the city's public services.

Yes tell me about it - I was up in Scotland last weekend and hotels were fully booked throughout the central belt and beyond.

Chrism20 · 25 Aug 2019

Looks like eighteen cancelations from Waverley between 2pm and midnight. Up until about 9:30pm they appeared to be sufficiently spaced out that the services either side of the cancelations would have coped albeit extremely busy.

What has probably pushed it over the edge will have been

2203 Dunblane - Cancelled
2215 Queen St - Cancelled
2233 Dunblane - Departed at 2302
2245 Queen St - Cancelled
2303 Dunblane - Departed at 2354 and terminated at Stirling
2316 Queen St - Departed at 2332
2334 Dunblane - Departed 2357
2345 Queen St - Departed 2353
0003 Queen St - Departed 0024
0033 Queen St - Departed 0037

Looks like nothing towards Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk and the stations towards Dunblane for an hour. Glasgow passengers would have been directed towards the A2B you would think.

sng7 · 25 Aug 2019

It was preetty awful just before the cancellations, I was on the 21:52 Helensburgh via Bathgate and it was awful then, Only 3 carriages rather than the the usual 6 for the line, train was crush loaded with people left behind at edinburgh. No scotrail staff to help with dispatch at Waverley so it took the BTP to get the doors closed and depatred 10 late because of it. Train stopped at haymarket where more pople tried to force on so lost antoher 5 minutes because once again no one was managing the situation. And then had someone faint on board and another older man collapse as he got off later on. Luckily no injuries from it.

Sonic92 · 25 Aug 2019

Chrism20 said:
Glasgow passengers would have been directed towards the A2B you would think.

Or ScotRail could have directed them to the bus station and they could get a citylink service from there to Glasgow. After all they run 24/7.

Andyh82 · 25 Aug 2019

Chrism20 said:
Looks like eighteen cancelations from Waverley between 2pm and midnight. Up until about 9:30pm they appeared to be sufficiently spaced out that the services either side of the cancelations would have coped albeit extremely busy.

What has probably pushed it over the edge will have been

2203 Dunblane - Cancelled
2215 Queen St - Cancelled
2233 Dunblane - Departed at 2302
2245 Queen St - Cancelled

What was the cause of these cancellations?

snookertam · 25 Aug 2019

Mag_seven said:
I thought ScotRail already did provide additional services?

Yes tell me about it - I was up in Scotland last weekend and hotels were fully booked throughout the central belt and beyond.

They do after midnight, to provide a later service. However although I was stating that a more frequent service might have been in order, it seems that a series of cancellations has created the issue.

Speed43125 · 25 Aug 2019

I would say it would be good if scotrail made better use of the couple 68s they have. especially if more mk2/3s could be sourced, (Reconvert HST stock, acquire retired CS seated coaches etc) to cope with such crunches. But yeah, the Edinburgh Festival is just at a size where a TOC just can't magic up extra trains to use, without having a serious number of crews and trains idling around not being used most of the time.

Ben Glasgow · 25 Aug 2019

From witnessing some of the chaos at haymarket, it also doesn’t help that drunk people mess about with trains as they are boarding. One guy was messing about going on and off the Birmingham VT service and causing further delays.

As an Edinburger, I’m going to echo what has been said previously that infrastructures like the railway can’t cope with the amount of people that descend on Edinburgh for the fringe nowadays. I’d be curious if Scotrail are either incompetent at planning their trains or if not that, it could be that logistically it’s impossible to have extended sets for certain services.

It’s annoying in some ways because Joe Bloggs is not going to realise that it’s not Scotrail failing but more so the existing infrastructure buckling under pressure.

overthewater · 25 Aug 2019

Yet Edinburgh infrastructures within the train network has been improved over the past couple of years, so there was no reason for this in the first place. Is is it Scotrail fault for the lack of trains or someone else.
If it scotrail then I can say it will nationalised much sooner.

Deltic1961 · 25 Aug 2019

I doubt it. The Scottish Government will just sweep this under the carpet the same way they have done many times in the past.

They're too busy bleating on about the will of the Scottish people to show any interest in providing a reliable rail network.

Tomos y Tanc · 25 Aug 2019

snookertam said:
Another passenger, Jill Davis, told BBC Scotland she was concerned for safety on the train home to Glasgow.

"It was really dangerously, dangerously overcrowded," she said.

"There were children standing, I had my bike with me. It was just awful - really, really terrible."

If the train really was that overcrowded why on earth was a passenger allowed to take a bike on board?

InOban · 25 Aug 2019

It seems that there weren't crew willing to work overtime shifts? Maybe even short notice call offs?
No excuse for a 3-coach Helensburgh train, though. These are usually 6 anyway.
Bit daft to have an international rugby match on the same day.

47271 · 25 Aug 2019

Yes, aside from Scotrail's late evening performance, I think that the first question that needs to be answered here is why a rugby international was allowed at Murrayfield when the city was at bursting point anyway.

Chrism20 · 25 Aug 2019

47271 said:
Yes, aside from Scotrail's late evening performance, I think that the first question that needs to be answered here is why a rugby international was allowed at Murrayfield when the city was at bursting point anyway.

You can throw in 15,315 at Easter Road as well. Not sure how many St Johnstone fans were there but some would have undoubtedly travelled by train.

route101 · 25 Aug 2019

InOban said:
It seems that there weren't crew willing to work overtime shifts? Maybe even short notice call offs?
No excuse for a 3-coach Helensburgh train, though. These are usually 6 anyway.
Bit daft to have an international rugby match on the same day.

Few 3 coach 334s on the line on Thursday . Some Shotts fasts to Glasgow after 8pm may help.

Laketop · 25 Aug 2019

In terms of the Edinburgh Fringe and the argument that there isn't sufficient capacity, may it be infrastructure, train frequency or train capacity, wouldn't it be the case that it is the capacity?

InOban said:
It seems that there weren't crew willing to work overtime shifts? Maybe even short notice call offs?
No excuse for a 3-coach Helensburgh train, though. These are usually 6 anyway.
Bit daft to have an international rugby match on the same day.

Speed43125 said:
I would say it would be good if scotrail made better use of the couple 68s they have. especially if more mk2/3s could be sourced, (Reconvert HST stock, acquire retired CS seated coaches etc) to cope with such crunches. But yeah, the Edinburgh Festival is just at a size where a TOC just can't magice up extra trains to use, without having a serious number of crews and trains idling around not being used most of the time.

sng7 said:
It was preetty awful just before the cancellations, I was on the 21:52 Helensburgh via Bathgate and it was awful then, Only 3 carriages rather than the the usual 6 for the line, train was crush loaded with people left behind at edinburgh. No scotrail staff to help with dispatch at Waverley so it took the BTP to get the doors closed and depatred 10 late because of it. Train stopped at haymarket where more pople tried to force on so lost antoher 5 minutes because once again no one was managing the situation. And then had someone faint on board and another older man collapse as he got off later on. Luckily no injuries from it.

All well put. Short formations and the argument that trains and crew would be idle at other times. In this case, wouldn't it be viable to seek additional stock or lengthen current stock, both for the fringe and generally? This wouldn't incur the requirement of additional crew, and it results in more capacity on trains leading to an increase in supply to the demand.

47271 · 25 Aug 2019

Chrism20 said:
You can throw in 15,315 at Easter Road as well. Not sure how many St Johnstone fans were there but some would have undoubtedly travelled by train.

I was in Edinburgh all day yesterday - luckily in my car so I was oblivious to the train shambles - and was very aware of masses of rugby fans everywhere. At the time I thought it was an odd bit of planning generally. I saw one or two Hearts tops in the early afternoon, but I've no doubt that the rugby will have helped tipped this over the edge.

farci · 25 Aug 2019

The question is not nationalise but about management in the public interest. A bit like Netherlands where the transport authority - rail, buses, cycling, cars and canals - controls. The operators can be private sector but all working together.

Wait a minute - that’s how it works with TfL?

bb21 · 25 Aug 2019

farci said:
Wait a minute - that’s how it works with TfL?

When Edinburgh gets TfL style frequencies they can manage things in a similar way.

What the Scottish government will need to decide is whether the events bring enough economic benefits to warrant subsidising more cooperation and more intensive service provision. The answer I don't know.

mde · 25 Aug 2019

Speed43125 said:
I would say it would be good if scotrail made better use of the couple 68s they have. especially if more mk2/3s could be sourced, (Reconvert HST stock, acquire retired CS seated coaches etc) to cope with such crunches.

That would need DRS to have driver availability (doable perhaps?); and, for use after 31 December, a dispensation as the coaching stock hasn't had PRM mods… that bit might be a hard sell.

Siemens Trains · 25 Aug 2019

mde said:
That would need DRS to have driver availability (doable perhaps?); and, for use after 31 December, a dispensation as the coaching stock hasn't had PRM mods… that bit might be a hard sell.

What is PRM and does this mean the coaches are due for withdrawal at the end of this year? Any idea what will replace them on the weekday runs?
These sets seem to rack up a ridiculous amount of distance being operated as empty or virtually empty coaching stock, in my estimate carrying significant numbers of passengers for only about 20 miles each day.
If they were used as relief for events (and I believe they've been used to add capacity for Murrayfield rugby matches in the past) I'd like to think they could be operated a bit more efficiently.
Also, can more use be made of Platform 0 at Haymarket or is the issue mostly staff and rolling stock logistics rather than path availability to/from Waverley?

farci · 25 Aug 2019

bb21 said:
When Edinburgh gets TfL style frequencies they can manage things in a similar way.

What the Scottish government will need to decide is whether the events bring enough economic benefits to warrant subsidising more cooperation and more intensive service provision. The answer I don't know.

The Scottish rail transport network is self-contained geographically and politically - you may almost say 'independent' - and therefore could be a suitable test for modal shift where car usage is increasingly irrelevant because a 21st century public transport meets expectations.

See latest policy ideas where First Bus could be broken up and brought back into community ownership in Glasgow/Aberdeen - https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13614/radical-plans-reform-glasgows-transport-system-unveiled

bb21 · 25 Aug 2019

farci said:
The Scottish rail transport network is self-contained geographically and politically - you may almost say 'independent' - and therefore could be a suitable test for modal shift where car usage is increasingly irrelevant because a 21st century public transport meets expectations.

See latest policy ideas where First Bus could be broken up and brought back into community ownership in Glasgow/Aberdeen - https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13614/radical-plans-reform-glasgows-transport-system-unveiled

Nothing wrong with what you say in theory, but I struggle to see why all the obsession with TfL. They do some things excellently, however the operating environment is very different from that in Scotland. The only common thing I can think of in what you are suggesting is perhaps close control by public bodies, and that is where it stops.

scotlass · 25 Aug 2019

As another Edinburgher, while I echo what has been said here and previously about Scotrail and their general performance, the problem this weekend cannot fully be landed on them this time. The Edinburgh Fringe and Festival is the problem, and those who have allowed it to spiral completely out of control for the size of the city centre to the detriment of those who live, work and deliver essential services there. No amount of extra trains and buses will ever be enough at this rate. I really sympathise with anyone working out of Edinburgh Waverley, Haymarket or any of the surburban stations at this time of year.

overthewater · 25 Aug 2019

There wasn't even a proper standard service in place.

Highland37 · 26 Aug 2019

Anyone seen the article ScotRail are promoting today on Facebook?

Oh dear. First class ticket to Lock Ay Lort please.

pt_mad · 26 Aug 2019

An event I remember where the event was just too big to be managed. Interesting article on it.....

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2002/jul/21/artsfeatures.features

At the train station after the event there were crowds the like of which I have never seen. People were falling on to the tracks. A number of officers risked their lives that night.'

By now the tailback on the A23 was 10 miles long. Traffic along the A27 bypass was barely moving and it was taking two hours to travel five miles. Drivers began to abandon cars on roadside verges and walk to the party.

Difference being in those days the transport network itself wasn't blamed, more a question of whether the event itself should have gone ahead.

SteveP29 · 26 Aug 2019

snookertam said:
I would also point out that the Edinburgh festival is now far too big for Edinburgh to cope with. This isn't just a railway issue, but a wider problem for the city's public services. A lot of Edinburgh people quite honestly don't want to know.

scotlass said:
As another Edinburgher, while I echo what has been said here and previously about Scotrail and their general performance, the problem this weekend cannot fully be landed on them this time. The Edinburgh Fringe and Festival is the problem, and those who have allowed it to spiral completely out of control for the size of the city centre to the detriment of those who live, work and deliver essential services there. No amount of extra trains and buses will ever be enough at this rate. I really sympathise with anyone working out of Edinburgh Waverley, Haymarket or any of the surburban stations at this time of year.

Agreed on both counts, thankfully I've spent the last 2 weeks away from Edinburgh and it's been sheer bliss.
Returned last night to the ignorance and stupidity of some of the people in this city, it does make me angry far more than it should

Northhighland · 26 Aug 2019

Excuses. Too many people for the network? Really?

Edinburgh is Scotland’s Capital city. It is a place that regularly has big events. The festival happens every year. Scotland rugby matches happen every year.

These are events ScotRail should be planning for. They know they are going to happen. Railways are supposed to be good at mass transportation.

Other cities in the world manage this.

Scotrail need a serious review and fundamental change. They are not in any way focused on customer service. Customers do not feature in their decision making. Until they fundamentally change we will see more of this second or third rate service.

ScotRail under fire after major disruption around Edinburgh on Saturday 24 August

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