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SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

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Ethano92

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I would agree, I cannot see any sense in non-commercial guards other than in a niche scenario like Caledonian Sleeper. While there would be a personal safety risk of having them do PFs (see the Merseyrail dispute) simply checking, even if they take no action as a result of the checks, is a visible deterrent.

As an example, LNR have staffed barriers for near enough the full period of service using contract security guards who have no revenue training and can't do anything other than ask the passenger to go to the TVM and pay[1], but this does get rid of the "pay when challenged" approach which is the most common form of fare evasion by providing that challenge.

[1] Unlike Northern they don't seem to have attempted to (poorly) revenue train them, and I don't believe they are PF trained either.

Yes, I see it as the only logical solution really. One of my nearest stations, New Malden recently had the rear entrance gated but they put the barrier in a position such that an entrance which always had people coming from 2 directions can now only be accessed by 1 if you want to use contactless. This means there continues to be many fare dodgers who just don't go through the barrier and are never questioned by both agency staff and poorly handled the occasional time there are agency ticket inspectors which seems like a real waste.

On 701s guards will be able to easily walk through and check tickets and as you said the simple presence of them on every service would deter fare evaders however it then becomes a question of if guards keep their door duties or if that's passed to the driver whilst the guards become OBS instead essentially. It seems like a logical middle ground in my opinion at least however both parties have to learn some communication skills for it to ever come about. I do doubt they haven't come up with this solution already however but it must of been rejected by one of the 2.
 
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pompeyfan

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I was on a southern service from Portsmouth to East Croydon and return the other week, both trains had an OBS throughout, with a change of crew at Horsham. Both journey I was on, there was only 1 walk through between them, the rest of the time the OBS’ just stood in the accessible area of the train. OBS isn’t this shining golden egg people pretend it is. There needs to be a change in culture and management need to be more proactive.
 

Goldfish62

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Leadership currently appears seriously lacking from the industry side, & I believe is now the primary reason behind these continued strikes
From what I understand from my friends at GWR Mellors didn't exactly have a good reputation there and Hopwood continually had to smooth things over with the TUs.

Perhaps Mellors would be best off moving to West Coast..

Anyway, service details for all days except Sunday are now on the SWR website. Looks pretty much like the standard strike days pattern, without the added complication of Royal Ascot. I assume they'll try to operate 12 car 450s for the Bournemouth Airshow.
 

bb21

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Don't believe everything you hear about senior management. People usually have a personal agenda of sorts in those "reviews".
 

Goldfish62

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Don't believe everything you hear about senior management. People usually have a personal agenda of sorts in those "reviews".
Of course. I wasn't born yesterday. But in this case I have good reason to believe it. However, it's up to others whether they choose to do so.
 

bb21

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Would it not be in SWRs best interest to turn all guards commercial so ticket checks (well contactless checks mostly) could be done on every service that isn't crush loaded without the need to hire agency staff?

No. Revenue in inner area is quite impractical with the frequent stops so you just end up with people on higher wages for little benefit.

The case may be different on an OBS-style model but you'll have to win that battle first, which isn't really for this thread.
 

Carlisle

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From what I understand from my friends at GWR Mellors didn't exactly have a good reputation there and Hopwood continually had to smooth things over with the TUs.
Neither of them to my knowledge succeed in achieving much of substance from the protracted GWR DOO dispute a few years ago, so I’d suggest perhaps someone more decisive to be a front person for the industry
 
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bb21

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Mellors wouldn't have been a relevant figure in the GWR dispute.
 

Joe Paxton

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If there is a strike on 30th August to 2nd September. How many days before the strike would they release a schedule for trains etc on their official website? It currently states 'we're currently planning the train service day' for all the days, and the strikes are in a week.. Ish.

They usually release 2 days before, but I remember one of the recent strikes it was only the day before.

Not what I wanted to hear, but on thinking about it yes that's also my recollection of the way things worked during previous SWR strikes.

Any ideas about the Weymouth / Bournemouth to London services, particularly on the Sunday (1st Sept)? During previous strikes there were Waterloo-Bournemouth trains, with an enforced change at Bournemouth for points west (Poole, Weymouth etc).

Assuming that will be the scenario this time, for those coming from the south west Bournemouth would be a better starting point for less faffing around. Just wondering if driving to Southampton Airport Parkway might be better... would there be more London-bound trains from there (useful if a train gets cancelled) ?

~

Edit - I see that SWR has now published information about the service on Friday, Saturday and Monday (link), but not yet for the Sunday.
 
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387star

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I was on a southern service from Portsmouth to East Croydon and return the other week, both trains had an OBS throughout, with a change of crew at Horsham. Both journey I was on, there was only 1 walk through between them, the rest of the time the OBS’ just stood in the accessible area of the train. OBS isn’t this shining golden egg people pretend it is. There needs to be a change in culture and management need to be more proactive.
Agree

Some are great but so many never walk through . Sometimes they sit in the back cab the whole way up the arun valley despite a 30 minute gap after Barnham then slam the cab door shut at Horsham and walk off. Could have been passing crew but saw noone else. Some of them seem genuinely bitter (refusing to acknowledge Thameslink drivers) and I can understand that too.

Indeed one southern driver seemed to think thameslink drivers were taking away the guy at the back and taking away their work but it's hardly the drivers fault.

However Southern Conductors on 313s are often doing checks
 

BazzaCFC

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Are the guards striking over their job security or about the hours? I'm sure one of the dispute is to do with the hours they work? It's quite shocking they have a 42 hour contract in comparison to other guards/train managers/obs from other tocs.

Regarding a 42 hour week, you’re correct in that it is excessive. Southern OBS and conductors are both on 37.5h weeks for £35k a year. SWR are 39k commercial for 42h average.


I'm surprised SWR guards are not striking about the excessive hours considering SWR drivers only work genuine 35 hour / 4 day weeks. In comparison, guards work much more than the 42 hours stated in their contracts. Let's be real actually, a 42 week for a SWR guard is a MYTH... New rosters were brought in, in May, the average shift for a Waterloo guard is 9.5 hours. They work 7 days in a row. Most are clocking up hours considerable to working X 2 FULL TIME JOBS jobs in 7 days. On the new roster, shorter 38 hour weeks are compensated with shorter "6 hour spare shifts", however, those "shorter" spare shifts are then replaced with 9.5 hour duties, so they never get a shorter working week after all. Very sneaky and disingenuous of SWR if you ask me. It's an insincere, empty and deceitful gesture. There must be an issue with exhaustion and burn out among the guards, surely? How can one stay fit and healthy working 9.5 hours days, 7 days in a row complete with 4am starts and 1am finishes? What does the union think of the guard contract? Why are the guards treated so poorly? What is the general consensus among the guards? Are they happy working long shifts 7 days in a row? Are they happy being forced into working overtime?
 

infobleep

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The strike is solely around trying to encourage SWR to keep operating procedure for the 701s as is for all the rest of the fleet.

SWR have actually moved away from the idea of running services DOO in exceptional circumstances. I think internal politics has a lot to do with it too.

Regarding a 42 hour week, you’re correct in that it is excessive. Southern OBS and conductors are both on 37.5h weeks for £35k a year. SWR are 39k commercial for 42h average.
Did the internal polticis involved in this exist prior to the SWR taking over?
 

pompeyfan

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There’s currently an RMT general secretary campaign, and I personally believe had there not been, the current deal would be accepted, as it’s actually more generous than the GA deal
 

Carlisle

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There needs to be a change in culture and management need to be more proactive.
Thats simply incompatible with a working environment desired by some staff where their unions strength entitles it to call most of the shots & is always willing & able to ballot for action at the first hint things mightn’t be going it’s way
 
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yorkie

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I was on a southern service from Portsmouth to East Croydon and return the other week, both trains had an OBS throughout, with a change of crew at Horsham. Both journey I was on, there was only 1 walk through between them, the rest of the time the OBS’ just stood in the accessible area of the train. OBS isn’t this shining golden egg people pretend it is. There needs to be a change in culture and management need to be more proactive.
If you want to get into comparisons, I was on several XC and Virgin services recently, all trains had a Guard throughout, but there was no sign of any ticket check on many of the journeys. I also did several trips on the Scotrail electric trains in the Glasgow area and saw many conscientious, polite and helpful staff and rarely was there not a ticket check.
OBS isn’t this shining golden egg people pretend it is.
Neither are other methods of operation!
There needs to be a change in culture and management need to be more proactive.
I'd like to see a change in culture in some areas but good luck achieving that in some places!
 

pompeyfan

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If you want to get into comparisons, I was on several XC and Virgin services recently, all trains had a Guard throughout, but there was no sign of any ticket check on many of the journeys. I also did several trips on the Scotrail electric trains in the Glasgow area and saw many conscientious, polite and helpful staff and rarely was there not a ticket check.

Neither are other methods of operation!
I'd like to see a change in culture in some areas but good luck achieving that in some places!

I never said all guards were perfect and all non safety crit on board staff such as TEs or OBS were crap, just that lazy people exist across the railway dragging the rest of their colleagues down with them and a lazy OBS would be just as invisible as a lazy guard. You clearly have your preference on method of operation, which is different to mine, but didn’t think we needed to play tit for tat
 

yorkie

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I never said all guards were perfect and all non safety crit on board staff such as TEs or OBS were crap
I am not saying you were saying that, though others (including the RMT, whose statements I always take with a pinch of salt) do appear to suggesting something along those lines at times.
just that lazy people exist across the railway dragging the rest of their colleagues down with them and a lazy OBS would be just as invisible as a lazy guard. You clearly have your preference on method of operation, which is different to mine, but didn’t think we needed to play tit for tat
Yes I agree that this occurs in a range of roles, but they are much more prevalent in some places/depots/TOCs compared to others; I agree this is a cultural thing.

But I am not sure that all lazy staff can be as invisible as others; for example staff who are not allowed to remain in a cab by definition have to be in a public area of the train.
 

Matt Taylor

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I'm surprised SWR guards are not striking about the excessive hours considering SWR drivers only work genuine 35 hour / 4 day weeks. In comparison, guards work much more than the 42 hours stated in their contracts. Let's be real actually, a 42 week for a SWR guard is a MYTH... New rosters were brought in, in May, the average shift for a Waterloo guard is 9.5 hours. They work 7 days in a row. Most are clocking up hours considerable to working X 2 FULL TIME JOBS jobs in 7 days. On the new roster, shorter 38 hour weeks are compensated with shorter "6 hour spare shifts", however, those "shorter" spare shifts are then replaced with 9.5 hour duties, so they never get a shorter working week after all. Very sneaky and disingenuous of SWR if you ask me. It's an insincere, empty and deceitful gesture. There must be an issue with exhaustion and burn out among the guards, surely? How can one stay fit and healthy working 9.5 hours days, 7 days in a row complete with 4am starts and 1am finishes? What does the union think of the guard contract? Why are the guards treated so poorly? What is the general consensus among the guards? Are they happy working long shifts 7 days in a row? Are they happy being forced into working overtime?

The 42.5 hours has always been nominal and the true figure is closer to 50 hours a week when taking into consideration how the six hour spare shifts can easily change to a 9h40 shift. But it isn't an issue to strike over, a proposal was put forward a couple of years ago but it was rejected by members. Reducing the working week will always be a two way street and guards were simply not prepared to make the sacrifices the comapnt wanted in return a one hour reduction of the week.
 

infobleep

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Does anyone have a previous timetable for the previous strikes covering thr Southampton line.

I'm wishing to find out the chances of a 1:05am service running early next Sunday morning.

I'm looking at getting back to Woking and that is the last train without strikes.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Does anyone have a previous timetable for the previous strikes covering thr Southampton line.

I'm wishing to find out the chances of a 1:05am service running early next Sunday morning.

I'm looking at getting back to Woking and that is the last train without strikes.
They are not yet shown on the website, hopefully will appear later in the week.
 

Train Boy

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Does anyone have a previous timetable for the previous strikes covering thr Southampton line.

I'm wishing to find out the chances of a 1:05am service running early next Sunday morning.

I'm looking at getting back to Woking and that is the last train without strikes.

On Saturday 22nd June, the last strike day, the 0105 did run as far as Basingstoke (due to engineering), reaching Woking at 0149.
 

bb21

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Does anyone have a previous timetable for the previous strikes covering thr Southampton line.

I'm wishing to find out the chances of a 1:05am service running early next Sunday morning.

I'm looking at getting back to Woking and that is the last train without strikes.
Terminates Basingstoke, buses onwards.
 

infobleep

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Many thanks. I might do that train and get an Uber home from Woking. Depends on Uber prices. Alternative is to stay away.

If only a later train ran to Portsmouth as it does Sunday nights (Monday mornings) but that's a whole other discussion and nothing to do with the strike timetable.
 

pompeyfan

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I’m led to believe that there’s an important announcement and meetings with the RMT on Thursday from the company that could potentially end or further provoke the strikes.

The company are expected to announce their preferred method of operation on 701s, with serious thought apparently being given to driver/ABDO open, guard close. We shall see.

It’s unusual for companies to entertain unions during planned industry action.
 

J-2739

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What is the likelihood of the strikes being called off?

I ask this as someone who is using SWR during the strike dates.
 

Goldfish62

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What is the likelihood of the strikes being called off?

I ask this as someone who is using SWR during the strike dates.
I've just received an email from SWR not giving any hint that the strikes may be called off.

According to SWR Thursday's meeting was already scheduled before the strikes were called.
 

bb21

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It is not always possible to reinstate all the services at short notice even if the strike is called off the day beforehand.
 

Bigfoot

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The problem is that the crews will discover what they are rostered to work on the Wednesday at midday for the Friday service, and Thursday (1200) for the Saturday etc, so unless things are announced before then they will struggle to run a full service 2 days later.
 
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