TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

The Northern Star · 28 Aug 2019

sjpowermac said:
So in First, best to sit in seat number 18 or above

My favourite seat is 21 and 24 in the First class coach. You can have a sleep without being next to the crew door and you can hear the thrash!

RailUK Forums

Uncle Bulgaria · 28 Aug 2019

1F76 running 15 minutes late by Huddersfield on the 1744 SCA-LIV, seems to be a regular occurrence. Are the stop times not long enough for the sets??

The Northern Star · 28 Aug 2019

Uncle Bulgaria said:
1F76 running 15 minutes late by Huddersfield on the 1744 SCA-LIV, seems to be a regular occurrence. Are the stop times not long enough for the sets??

It's the peak time traffic between York and Leeds.

rich-leeds · 28 Aug 2019

Was on this service. Had plenty of dwell time at York - lots of Scarborough day trippers got off. Not too busy overall, as still in holiday period. For unclear reasons failed to make a right time departure from York and then went down hill from there. Missed path and then got stuck stuck behind an on time northern stopper between Mirfield and Huddersfield. Real dwell time test will come once everyone is back at work.

Generated lots of positive comments from passengers on board, and huge attention from people in York Station - lots of photos and videos being taken - was like being on a steam hauled train. Great to finally see some positive vibes on the network

Bertie the bus · 28 Aug 2019

Lots of normals taking photographs is quite common. I've seen it with a number of different trains. If there are some enthusiasts taking photos they see it and think it must be interesting and they'll take one to show their family or friends without really knowing what they are taking a photograph of.

ash39 · 28 Aug 2019

Bertie the bus said:
Lots of normals taking photographs is quite common. I've seen it with a number of different trains. If there are some enthusiasts taking photos they see it and think it must be interesting and they'll take one to show their family or friends without really knowing what they are taking a photograph of.

Was held in P4 at York as a late running XC Voyager was occupying P3.

I get that certain parts of the TPE route are very congested, but early observations seem to show that once these sets lose a few minutes it tends to snowball into a fairly significant delay by the end of the run.

The end doors aren't great for dwell times either which won't be helping.

ash39 · 28 Aug 2019

Meant to quote post 4804 not 4805!

Geeves · 28 Aug 2019

Jack Brown said:
My favourite seat is 21 and 24 in the First class coach. You can have a sleep without being next to the crew door and you can hear the thrash!

Who's putting you in first class?

Anyways I'm glad 26 did eventually make an appearance, wasn't a good morning for breakdowns! We tried that same move earlier on in the day and had to give up!

Staffordian · 28 Aug 2019

rich-leeds said:
Was on this service. Had plenty of dwell time at York - lots of Scarborough day trippers got off. Not too busy overall, as still in holiday period. For unclear reasons failed to make a right time departure from York and then went down hill from there. Missed path and then got stuck stuck behind an on time northern stopper between Mirfield and Huddersfield. Real dwell time test will come once everyone is back at work.

Looking at RTT, the late departure from York on 1F76 was due to XC 1O94, Newcastle - Southampton, timetabled in P3 at 1833/1836. 1F76 is due in P4 (further back along the same platform face) at 1835/1841. Although 1F76 arrived on time, 1O94 was 5L, arriving 1838 (blocking in 1F76) and departing 1841. 1F76 then left 2L at 1843 and after that it all seems to have gone downhill !
The SCA-LIV trains are all timed a few minutes after these XC trains, so there is a risk of something similar happening every hour, although it’s not as bad when the XC is able to use the parallel P5, rather than P3.

The Northern Star · 28 Aug 2019

Geeves said:
Who's putting you in first class?

Anyways I'm glad 26 did eventually make an appearance, wasn't a good morning for breakdowns! We tried that same move earlier on in the day and had to give up!

Have messaged you.

gimmea50anyday · 28 Aug 2019

Not unusual the XC 1Oxx delaying TPE 1Fxx by being tardy in its departure. Has been happening for years. Then this can snowball by then delaying the other XC departure from P9, the 1Vxx via Bristol workings which follows 1Fxx to Leeds.

The signalling won't allow a simultaneous arrival into 3 from the ECML and 4 from the branch. Think this is to do with the signalling overlap from 4 to the point work not meeting modern standards, should a P4 arrival SPAD or otherwise fail to stop then a collision won't occur, so even if the TPE is on time if the road is set for the XC service to arrive onto 3 and that is running a little late the TPE has to wait until the XC has arrived on 3.

Personally I have experienced many a delay where the TPE arrived onto P4 and has been belled out ready for an on time departure but then made to wait for a late running XC arrival which might not have cleared Skelton Jn but ARS has already set the route as programmed into P3. This has led to +10 late departures from York for 1Fxx. Wether this has been addressed by recent changes to signalling priorities in favour of on time TPE over late LNER/XC I cannot say as I haven't worked services off the branch for some time, but there really isn't a lot that can be done to the overlap and layout without affecting the platform lengths of 3 and 4. 4 can currently take a 185x6 or loco+5 and 3 just about fits IEPx10 or 9+2 HST/mk4 so reduction in length isn't a possibility and no extension is possible as Scarborough Bridge is at the other end of 4.

Kettledrum · 28 Aug 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
Not unusual the XC 1Oxx delaying TPE 1Fxx by being tardy in its departure. Has been happening for years. ......but there really isn't a lot that can be done to the overlap and layout without affecting the platform lengths of 3 and 4. 4 can currently take a 185x6 or loco+5 and 3 just about fits IEPx10 or 9+2 HST/mk4 so reduction in length isn't a possibility and no extension is possible as Scarborough Bridge is at the other end of 4.

with platform 4 only just taking a loco plus 5 coaches, then this would create a problem if the 5 coach trains became so well used that they had to be lengthened in future.

tpjm · 28 Aug 2019

As has been said, we arrived 1/2 early into York despite being held briefly outside. As usual the XC was popped in front of us, but even with the heavy pax loadings, we were ready to go well within the booked dwell. Leeds was average - lots of pax in the wrong place on the platform and even with some encouragement still tried to cram on the first two coaches. Main delay stems from being regulated at Ravensthorpe for the stopper in front.

Also worth bearing in mind that colleagues (drivers, guards, dispatchers, and everybody else) are being a little slower than normal with this new train, as from a safety perspective it's critical to get it right, first time, every time. I would never tell any of my colleagues to be quicker, especially when performing safety critical duties on unfamiliar traction. With time, they'll feel more confident and it will become easier for people to not think through every process in full before attending to the safety element. What I would say though, is that I'm immensely proud of the colleagues I've seen over the last few days and I think it's been echoed on this forum already.

IanXC · 29 Aug 2019

Jack Brown said:
It's the peak time traffic between York and Leeds.

rich-leeds said:
Was on this service. Had plenty of dwell time at York - lots of Scarborough day trippers got off. Not too busy overall, as still in holiday period. For unclear reasons failed to make a right time departure from York and then went down hill from there. Missed path and then got stuck stuck behind an on time northern stopper between Mirfield and Huddersfield. Real dwell time test will come once everyone is back at work.

ash39 said:
Was held in P4 at York as a late running XC Voyager was occupying P3.

I get that certain parts of the TPE route are very congested, but early observations seem to show that once these sets lose a few minutes it tends to snowball into a fairly significant delay by the end of the run.

The end doors aren't great for dwell times either which won't be helping.

Whats gone on here is that 1F76 has caught up 2K83 which itself was incorrectly regulated at Church Fenton for 1P36.

1F76 has then caught up TPE's late running 2J76, which it then overtook at Mirfield only to catch up Northern's right time 2O85.

2J76 had a 7 late start from Leeds due to it being held for 1P36 to go first.

I guess the lesson here is that 1P36 was so late it should have not been given (incorrect) priority at Church Fenton, then 1F76 would not have caught up 2K83 nor 2J76 nor 2O85.

tpjm · 29 Aug 2019

IanXC said:
Whats gone on here is that 1F76 has caught up 2K83 which itself was incorrectly regulated at Church Fenton for 1P36.

1F76 has then caught up TPE's late running 2J76, which it then overtook at Mirfield only to catch up Northern's right time 2O85.

2J76 had a 7 late start from Leeds due to it being held for 1P36 to go first.

I guess the lesson here is that 1P36 was so late it should have not been given (incorrect) priority at Church Fenton, then 1F76 would not have caught up 2K83 nor 2J76 nor 2O85.

Do you work in performance? If you get a kick out of this kind of detective work, it might be the career for you.

323 Class · 29 Aug 2019

His party trick is unplatting spaghetti.
Seriously, it's a great skill to have and very useful for unraveling events to get to the root cause.

Uncle Bulgaria · 29 Aug 2019

Is there a set out today, Thursday??

sjpowermac · 29 Aug 2019

1E25 06:56 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough started at Manchester this morning due to a track defect. 68027 on the ‘Scarborough’ end, seen here leaving York.

yorkie · 29 Aug 2019

tpjm said:
Do you work in performance? If you get a kick out of this kind of detective work, it might be the career for you.

Bear in mind forum members may not wish to disclose too much about their work!

We clearly have a lot of very knowledgeable people on the forum who work in/for/with the rail industry but I wouldn't recommend people give too much away about what work they do, for obvious reasons.

It's not at all uncommon for someone to ask about something for which the answer is already known, without having to do any detective work at all.

323 Class said:
Seriously, it's a great skill to have and very useful for unravelling events to get to the root cause.

Agreed!

DarloRich · 29 Aug 2019

I have been a bit disconnected from the matrix recently & ask if these services have started. If so do they have a fixed service pattern or is it still very touch and go?

I have had a look for this info on the board but cant seem to find the answer.

thanking you in advance.

( i added this in a new thread as i thought this one was about carriages - apologies!)

xotGD · 29 Aug 2019

DarloRich said:
I have been a bit disconnected from the matrix recently & ask if these services have started. If so do they have a fixed service pattern or is it still very touch and go?

I have had a look for this info on the board but cant seem to find the answer.

thanking you in advance.

( i added this in a new thread as i thought this one was about carriages - apologies!)

A dedicated "Trans-Pennine Cat Bashing" thread might be a good idea.

I'll be trying again tomorrow for some lineside phots.

sjpowermac · 29 Aug 2019

DarloRich said:
I have been a bit disconnected from the matrix recently & ask if these services have started. If so do they have a fixed service pattern or is it still very touch and go?

I have had a look for this info on the board but cant seem to find the answer.

thanking you in advance.

( i added this in a new thread as i thought this one was about carriages - apologies!)

Started last Saturday. The full diagram is as listed below, subject to alterations on the day. 68027 is currently at Scarborough waiting to work 1F62. Hope that helps

5F48 05:06 Longsight-Manchester Vic
1F48 05:55 Manchester Vic-Liverpool LS
1E25 06:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F62 10:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E39 13:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F76 17:44 Scarborough -Liverpool LS
1J53 20:56 Liverpool LS-Stalybridge
5T53 21:57 Stalybridge-Longsight

CaptainHaddock · 29 Aug 2019

sjpowermac said:
1E25 06:56 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough started at Manchester this morning due to a track defect. 68027 on the ‘Scarborough’ end, seen here leaving York.
View attachment 67908

The geese don't seem very impressed, do they?

I saw 1E25 setting down passsengers in platform 12 (I think) in Leeds this morning but for some bizarre reason it had stopped short, meaning that the rear 2 or 3 coaches doors weren't unlocked so passengers disembarking had to walk all the way to the front of the train. Made a pretty impressive noise when setting off again though.

cambsy · 29 Aug 2019

I’m planning to do the MK5a set/sets week commencing 30th Sept, and was wandering if any more diagrams be added by then? or just the one, and of course running on the day subject to the usual caveats.

DarloRich · 29 Aug 2019

sjpowermac said:
Started last Saturday. The full diagram is as listed below, subject to alterations on the day. 68027 is currently at Scarborough waiting to work 1F62. Hope that helps

5F48 05:06 Longsight-Manchester Vic
1F48 05:55 Manchester Vic-Liverpool LS
1E25 06:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F62 10:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E39 13:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F76 17:44 Scarborough -Liverpool LS
1J53 20:56 Liverpool LS-Stalybridge
5T53 21:57 Stalybridge-Longsight

thanks - that is very helpful.

Is that valid 7 days a week?

AndrewE · 29 Aug 2019

Is it time to update https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams.170615/ yet? or still a bit premature?

yrreb · 29 Aug 2019

CaptainHaddock said:
The geese don't seem very impressed, do they?

I saw 1E25 setting down passsengers in platform 12 (I think) in Leeds this morning but for some bizarre reason it had stopped short, meaning that the rear 2 or 3 coaches doors weren't unlocked so passengers disembarking had to walk all the way to the front of the train. Made a pretty impressive noise when setting off again though.

Happy to report that ASDO was successful though! Not sure why it was sent onto 12A unless the signaller assumed it was a 185

sjpowermac · 29 Aug 2019

DarloRich said:
thanks - that is very helpful.

Is that valid 7 days a week?

Started last Saturday, was to run initially until today. I think as a ‘pass out’ run for staff. Always worth checking on a morning to see if the ecs to Man Vic has run

midland1 · 29 Aug 2019

I had read that the locos would be at the south (west) end, push to Scarborough and pull to Liverpool.

EE Andy b1 · 29 Aug 2019

midland1 said:
I had read that the locos would be at the south (west) end, push to Scarborough and pull to Liverpool.

When in passenger service proper, I think that is the idea but at the moment it depends on how and when the sets come off Longsight. This diagram is temporary whilst traincrew still train and pass out.

TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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