• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

SAGA special trains 1970's - 1980's

Status
Not open for further replies.

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
Does anyone have any information about the routings and motive power used on the SAGA senior citizens' charter trains in the seventies and eighties please? Apparently there were quite a few of them at one time.

If my memory serves me right they had occasional mentions in the Railway Magazine Traffic & Traction section but little else. I seem to remember one Saturday in the spring of 1975 seeing one in New St which I think was from Portsmouth to Newcastle and have a vague memory of an engine change with a class 47 being replaced with a class 40.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

MP33

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2011
Messages
413
As part of the BBC2 documentary series 40 minutes, there was one showing a day at Waterloo Station. One of the staff featured worked in customer services and said that he hated the SAGA passengers the most. He christened SAGA, send all grannies away.
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254

Thanks for that - if the MML was used for the North East - South Coast service I wonder whether the loco change was at Cricklewood / Brent as the normal route through London from the MML to the SR would be via Dudding Hill jc and the N&SW line.

LM electric haulage noted at Coventry: might this not have been an Anglo-Scottish SAGA charter - Euston-Perth??
 

eastwestdivide

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2009
Messages
2,548
Location
S Yorks, usually
Thanks for that - if the MML was used for the North East - South Coast service I wonder whether the loco change was at Cricklewood / Brent as the normal route through London from the MML to the SR would be via Dudding Hill jc and the N&SW line
Brent was the normal place for loco changes on excursions and the like between the SR and the Midland line.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,737
There was a frequent Newcastle to Eastbourne SAGA special in the mid 1980s. And presumably the reverse. Often seen at Leeds or York. Motive power was a 45 / 46 / 47 there. I’ll look up some detail if you need me to.
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
There was a frequent Newcastle to Eastbourne SAGA special in the mid 1980s. And presumably the reverse. Often seen at Leeds or York. Motive power was a 45 / 46 / 47 there. I’ll look up some detail if you need me to.

That would be interesting if you could please. It could have gone via the MML to Brent or via Birmingham (either New St or the spur from Saltley to St Andrews Jc thence the ex-GW line. I wonder what the last passenger stop was - Leeds? Derby?
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,080
There were eight of us, all male, on London Transport's Traffic Administration training scheme in 1970/1 when it was set up. six unmarried and two of us (myself and one other) married. The other married guy, a bit older than myself, was the first to leave for pastures new, in his case 'to join my father-in-law in developing Saga Holidays'. I was quite friendly with him and queried whether he was doing the right thing, as Saga was far from a household name then, but he was clear he knew exactly what he was doing. I lost touch after he left but have often wondered how much of Saga's success was down to him.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,737
That would be interesting if you could please. It could have gone via the MML to Brent or via Birmingham (either New St or the spur from Saltley to St Andrews Jc thence the ex-GW line. I wonder what the last passenger stop was - Leeds? Derby?
Here's one:
Leeds,
Sat 16/06/1984, about 10.00 a.m.
47033 on a Saga special
Probably all mk1s! And probably to Eastbourne, though I imagine there were many other destinations
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
7,043
There was a Wednesdays only one in the 1980s from Portsmouth to Newcastle (I think it was that direction) which passed through Guildford around 4pm. Probably around 1983-85, I don't think it lasted into the late 80s. It was a 47 plus Mark One coaches.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,080
It used to be OK for bashers to get on the northbound SAGA at Darlo or Durham - did it at least a couple of times.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,024
Location
here to eternity
Not SAGA but does anyone remember the "National Express Charter" train. From memory it used to run on summer Saturdays in the 80s from Euston to Carlisle to connect into National Express coaches that would take people on coach tours of Scotland. I'm sure it used the "Manchester Pullman" stock.
 

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,713
Not SAGA but does anyone remember the "National Express Charter" train. From memory it used to run on summer Saturdays in the 80s from Euston to Carlisle to connect into National Express coaches that would take people on coach tours of Scotland. I'm sure it used the "Manchester Pullman" stock.

I have a vague recollection of seeing that at Birmingham NS, but I', pretty sure it was 'National Holidays' rather than National Express (both coaching parts of the NBC). I thought it was a rake of Mk 2 'air con' FOs though rather than the Manchester Pullman rake. Unless we are both talking about different things...
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
I have a vague recollection of seeing that at Birmingham NS, but I', pretty sure it was 'National Holidays' rather than National Express (both coaching parts of the NBC). I thought it was a rake of Mk 2 'air con' FOs though rather than the Manchester Pullman rake. Unless we are both talking about different things...

Not SAGA but does anyone remember the "National Express Charter" train. From memory it used to run on summer Saturdays in the 80s from Euston to Carlisle to connect into National Express coaches that would take people on coach tours of Scotland. I'm sure it used the "Manchester Pullman" stock.

Didn't know about that one. There were some interesting charters then for sure.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,024
Location
here to eternity
I have a vague recollection of seeing that at Birmingham NS, but I', pretty sure it was 'National Holidays' rather than National Express (both coaching parts of the NBC). I thought it was a rake of Mk 2 'air con' FOs though rather than the Manchester Pullman rake. Unless we are both talking about different things...

You might be correct there - a quick search of the internet doesn't reveal anything. I'm sure they got on to National Express coaches at Carlisle though.
 

ajs

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2018
Messages
125
Back in the early to mid 1970's, l worked in a multi storey building over looking Portsmouth Harbour station and the harbour.It was a good view point but at the time did not own a decent camera. In the mid 70s, on a Wednesday there was a SAGA special arriving to take people over to the Isle of Wight for a weeks holiday.Where the trains originated from l have no idea.The trains were generally hauled by a Class 33 or 47 and have a vague recollection of a Class 50 at one time, although my memory may be playing tricks.

The coaching stock was Mk 1, maroon stock? and the 08 shunters from Fratton used to follow the train in and take the empty stock, presumably back to Fratton, where it would run round the train and take the coaches back to the Harbour, where the loco would then attach to the front of the train and the train would then take the previous weeks holiday makers back home.

When this started or came to an end, l do not know.
 

Alfie1014

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2012
Messages
1,126
Location
Essex
Not SAGA but does anyone remember the "National Express Charter" train. From memory it used to run on summer Saturdays in the 80s from Euston to Carlisle to connect into National Express coaches that would take people on coach tours of Scotland. I'm sure it used the "Manchester Pullman" stock.

I was a sometime courier on the Nat Holidays charter trains in the 1980s. A friend and colleague of mine was the primary BR 'rep' on the train and also couriered other charter trains. I however was called upon when he was busy or on the occasions when they needed to run more than one train. The rationale for the train was as mentioned to convey passengers from and to London and the Midlands to Carllisle where they would join weekly tours around Scotland. It was more economic to run a train out and back to Carlisle and keep the coach drivers working north of the border. It certainly used the original (MkII) Manchester Pullman stock quite a lot though latterly it could be the MkI or MkII a/c stock from the BR charter train fleet. Using the Pullman set needed a vacumn braked loco though so it was more often a class 81-5 or 86. We used to help the Nat Holidays staff with boarding and alighting and handing out the packed lunches that were provided. It was great fun and a change from our day jobs at the LM HQ in Euston House and the overtime was greatly appreciated too!

On occasions two sets of stock were needed, mostly from memory when there was engineering work, (I remember some S&C diversions), and the extra time needed meant that a single set couldn't do the return and maintain connections with the coaches at Carlisle.

I've got notes of a run on Saturday 22nd June 1985 for example, 09:15 Euston to Carlisle, (MkII a/c stock 7FO+BFK+TSO), 87001 out and 14:50 return both ways via the Independant Lines at Crewe due to the remodelling and resignalling going on.

Also on Saturday 29th August 1987 (32 years ago today!) 09:15 departure again Manchester Pullman set 86101 to Crewe where 47520 took over to run via Sandbach, Stockport, Denton, Ashton Moss Jn, Miles Platting Jn, Manchr Vic, Salford, Bolton and Chorley to Preston, where the coaches met the passengers. 15:17 return via the same route with 86438 taking over from Crewe.

As couriers we had no operational responsibilities and were there to assisit with passengers and liaise if things went wrong. That said I remember one occasion when arriving at Wolverhampton northbound I told the guard about a fault with a coach at the front of the train, he'd gone to investigate and whilst he was doing this there was a mis-communication about the boarding of passengers being complete and the platform staff dispatched the train with the guard still on the platform! As we tended to board passengers from stations together in as few carriages as possible we probably only had one or two doors open and the Pullman stock had inward opening doors which you secured on departure so the guard couldn't just jump back on board! Noticing what was going on I pulled the communication cord in one of the pullman coaches to no avail, we just kept on going! Control were informed and we were evantually stopped by signals at Stafford where a new guard was magicked up and we continued on our way! Different times to say the least.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,737
I was a sometime courier on the Nat Holidays charter trains in the 1980s. A friend and colleague of mine was the primary BR 'rep' on the train and also couriered other charter trains. I however was called upon when he was busy or on the occasions when they needed to run more than one train. The rationale for the train was as mentioned to convey passengers from and to London and the Midlands to Carllisle where they would join weekly tours around Scotland. It was more economic to run a train out and back to Carlisle and keep the coach drivers working north of the border. It certainly used the original (MkII) Manchester Pullman stock quite a lot though latterly it could be the MkI or MkII a/c stock from the BR charter train fleet. Using the Pullman set needed a vacumn braked loco though so it was more often a class 81-5 or 86. We used to help the Nat Holidays staff with boarding and alighting and handing out the packed lunches that were provided. It was great fun and a change from our day jobs at the LM HQ in Euston House and the overtime was greatly appreciated too!

On occasions two sets of stock were needed, mostly from memory when there was engineering work, (I remember some S&C diversions), and the extra time needed meant that a single set couldn't do the return and maintain connections with the coaches at Carlisle.

I've got notes of a run on Saturday 22nd June 1985 for example, 09:15 Euston to Carlisle, (MkII a/c stock 7FO+BFK+TSO), 87001 out and 14:50 return both ways via the Independant Lines at Crewe due to the remodelling and resignalling going on.

Also on Saturday 29th August 1987 (32 years ago today!) 09:15 departure again Manchester Pullman set 86101 to Crewe where 47520 took over to run via Sandbach, Stockport, Denton, Ashton Moss Jn, Miles Platting Jn, Manchr Vic, Salford, Bolton and Chorley to Preston, where the coaches met the passengers. 15:17 return via the same route with 86438 taking over from Crewe.

As couriers we had no operational responsibilities and were there to assisit with passengers and liaise if things went wrong. That said I remember one occasion when arriving at Wolverhampton northbound I told the guard about a fault with a coach at the front of the train, he'd gone to investigate and whilst he was doing this there was a mis-communication about the boarding of passengers being complete and the platform staff dispatched the train with the guard still on the platform! As we tended to board passengers from stations together in as few carriages as possible we probably only had one or two doors open and the Pullman stock had inward opening doors which you secured on departure so the guard couldn't just jump back on board! Noticing what was going on I pulled the communication cord in one of the pullman coaches to no avail, we just kept on going! Control were informed and we were evantually stopped by signals at Stafford where a new guard was magicked up and we continued on our way! Different times to say the least.
Thanks - some great info there, much appreciated. Is there anyone who worked on the Saga trains?
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
I was a sometime courier on the Nat Holidays charter trains in the 1980s. A friend and colleague of mine was the primary BR 'rep' on the train and also couriered other charter trains. I however was called upon when he was busy or on the occasions when they needed to run more than one train. The rationale for the train was as mentioned to convey passengers from and to London and the Midlands to Carllisle where they would join weekly tours around Scotland. It was more economic to run a train out and back to Carlisle and keep the coach drivers working north of the border. It certainly used the original (MkII) Manchester Pullman stock quite a lot though latterly it could be the MkI or MkII a/c stock from the BR charter train fleet. Using the Pullman set needed a vacumn braked loco though so it was more often a class 81-5 or 86. We used to help the Nat Holidays staff with boarding and alighting and handing out the packed lunches that were provided. It was great fun and a change from our day jobs at the LM HQ in Euston House and the overtime was greatly appreciated too!

On occasions two sets of stock were needed, mostly from memory when there was engineering work, (I remember some S&C diversions), and the extra time needed meant that a single set couldn't do the return and maintain connections with the coaches at Carlisle.

I've got notes of a run on Saturday 22nd June 1985 for example, 09:15 Euston to Carlisle, (MkII a/c stock 7FO+BFK+TSO), 87001 out and 14:50 return both ways via the Independant Lines at Crewe due to the remodelling and resignalling going on.

Also on Saturday 29th August 1987 (32 years ago today!) 09:15 departure again Manchester Pullman set 86101 to Crewe where 47520 took over to run via Sandbach, Stockport, Denton, Ashton Moss Jn, Miles Platting Jn, Manchr Vic, Salford, Bolton and Chorley to Preston, where the coaches met the passengers. 15:17 return via the same route with 86438 taking over from Crewe.

As couriers we had no operational responsibilities and were there to assisit with passengers and liaise if things went wrong. That said I remember one occasion when arriving at Wolverhampton northbound I told the guard about a fault with a coach at the front of the train, he'd gone to investigate and whilst he was doing this there was a mis-communication about the boarding of passengers being complete and the platform staff dispatched the train with the guard still on the platform! As we tended to board passengers from stations together in as few carriages as possible we probably only had one or two doors open and the Pullman stock had inward opening doors which you secured on departure so the guard couldn't just jump back on board! Noticing what was going on I pulled the communication cord in one of the pullman coaches to no avail, we just kept on going! Control were informed and we were evantually stopped by signals at Stafford where a new guard was magicked up and we continued on our way! Different times to say the least.

That's a real railwayman's story if ever I heard one. Excellent.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,771
Location
Devon
That's a real railwayman's story if ever I heard one. Excellent.
Yep. Absolutely brilliant Alfie, thanks for sharing that.
I remember seeing the Manchester Pullman set heading north out of Euston sometime around 1986/87, I wonder if it was one of these services?
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,024
Location
here to eternity
It certainly used the original (MkII) Manchester Pullman stock quite a lot though latterly it could be the MkI or MkII a/c stock from the BR charter train fleet.

Thanks for confirming use of the MkII Manchester Pullman stock- I knew I hadn't imagined it! :D

I've got notes of a run on Saturday 22nd June 1985 for example, 09:15 Euston to Carlisle, (MkII a/c stock 7FO+BFK+TSO), 87001 out and 14:50 return both ways via the Independant Lines at Crewe due to the remodelling and resignalling going on.

Also on Saturday 29th August 1987 (32 years ago today!) 09:15 departure again Manchester Pullman set 86101 to Crewe where 47520 took over to run via Sandbach, Stockport, Denton, Ashton Moss Jn, Miles Platting Jn, Manchr Vic, Salford, Bolton and Chorley to Preston, where the coaches met the passengers. 15:17 return via the same route with 86438 taking over from Crewe.

Those were the days!
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
Those certainly were the days! The railway scene today is much less interesting without such special workings. I well remember the Merrymakers that had some memorable routings and motive power.
 

crosscity

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2011
Messages
592
Location
Birmingham
I was looking at some Working timetables at the National Archives recently and noticed 'Saga' mentioned along the bottom of the page of the 75/76 timetable. I lived in Exeter at the time, but had never heard of, or seen one of these trains! They operated at the beginning and end of the season (ie outside school holidays).


Archive. National Archives. BR (WR) Sect PC Mand 75-76 WTT. [P1100434]
by Ray, on Flickr

Note: Four SAGA trains are scheduled and 'NOT ADVERTISED'
1A59 MO 0950 Torquay-Paddington
1A59 ThO 0730 Newquay-Paddington
1E12 MO 1127 Torquay-Newcastle
1E12 ThO 0840 Newquay-Newcastle
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top