Paying for seat reservations

Mogz · 28 Aug 2019

As a regular traveller on CrossCountry trains (often as a turn-up-and-go passenger) I note that there are often many many seats that are reserved but for which the holder does not turn up.

This creates confusion as people will loiter in the aisles to see if the holder does turn up, or will occupy a seat in the hope that the holder does not, only to have to move if they do.

In the 1950s, seat reservations cost the nominal fee of One Shilling.

I wonder whether charging a nominal fee of £1 for a reservation today would deter casual seat reservations and thereby free up “available” seats on trains that are too short and usually packed to the rafters, even off-peak?

RailUK Forums

Merseysider · 28 Aug 2019

I'd support that, perhaps with the exception that Senior / Disabled railcard holders get a free reservation.

westv · 28 Aug 2019

Oh no! Not another seat reservation thread!

NorthOxonian · 28 Aug 2019

If I have split advances for a longer journey, would my reservations cost several pounds?

In my experience (travelling booked well in advance from Oxford to the North East, as well as some turn up and go around Oxford, Birmingham, and Southampton), whilst the situation isn't great, it isn't awful either - you can usually find an unreserved seat with a bit of a search outside the busiest times.

Bletchleyite · 28 Aug 2019

I would favour a charge of £2 with £1 refunded if cancelled/changed to encourage that.

The charge could be per outward/return leg as it is on DB to avoid people with changes being disadvantaged.

duesselmartin · 28 Aug 2019

I would combine the best of the UK and German system.
Free reservation but if the passenger does not turn up in 15 Min the reservation display shows the seat as available
On many XC services, reservations are really needed so a charge would be an indirect fare increase.

VT 390 · 28 Aug 2019

I would say charge a small amount for anytime/off peak ticket but offer them free with advance tickets as advanced tickets can only be used on a specific train where as anytime ticket holders are more likely to change their plans.
Also if there are no reservations for whatever reason or you can not get to your reserved seat you should get your money back.

Mag_seven · 28 Aug 2019

I've said it before and I'll say it again - simply fix the system such that the display defaults to "available" after say about 10 mins after the train has departed the station it was reserved from - it can't take people more than 10 mins to find their reserved seat surely.

mmh · 28 Aug 2019

Mag_seven said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again - simply fix the system such that the display defaults to "available" after say about 10 mins after the train has departed the station it was reserved from - it can't take people more than 10 mins to find their reserved seat surely.

No thanks, I might want to go to the toilet.

Mag_seven · 28 Aug 2019

mmh said:
No thanks, I might want to go to the toilet.

What if you are sitting in an unreserved seat and want to go to the toilet?

Bletchleyite · 28 Aug 2019

Mag_seven said:
What if you are sitting in an unreserved seat and want to go to the toilet?

How often do you travel in just T-shirt and shorts/trousers with no other item of clothing or bag or water bottle or anything with you to leave on the seat while you do so? For the kind of journey when you'll be going to the buffet/bog, I'd venture almost never.

221129 · 28 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
How often do you travel in just T-shirt and shorts/trousers with no other item of clothing or bag or water bottle or anything with you to leave on the seat while you do so? For the kind of journey when you'll be going to the buffet/bog, I'd venture almost never.

Quite often.

Chris M · 28 Aug 2019

The last time I had a reservation and didn't use was from Chester to London. The train was short-formed leaving Chester and my partner and I's reservations were in the part of the train that didn't exist. We found an available seat in the four-car set that did turn up, and despite the other half of the train being attached at Crewe we were disinclined to fight our way off the train with our large luggage to move down the platform (we were in the second to rear coach, our reservations were in the second from the front of the 8-car) in an unknown amount of time (I have mobility issues so I'm not as quick on my feet as some) to see if our reservations had been applied, hadn't been occupied, and there was room for all our luggage.
The two times before that it was because my connecting train was too late for me to board the train before it left the interchange station.
The time before that the train I was due to catch was cancelled.

More recently the reservations hadn't been downloaded properly when I boarded (at Paddington) so every seat was shown as available. It turned out that the seat I was in was actually reserved (when the reservations showed up), as part of a pair by a couple travelling together, but the seats on the other side of the carriage were genuinely available so they just sat there. The seat next to me was therefore technically an unused reservation.

I don't think charging people for the mistakes of the train companies will go down well.

Chris M · 28 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
How often do you travel in just T-shirt and shorts/trousers with no other item of clothing or bag or water bottle or anything with you to leave on the seat while you do so? For the kind of journey when you'll be going to the buffet/bog, I'd venture almost never.

Very often, espeically during the summer, I'm travelling without anything I'm prepared to leave on a seat without my being able to keep an eye on it.

Bletchleyite · 28 Aug 2019

Chris M said:
Very often, espeically during the summer, I'm travelling without anything I'm prepared to leave on a seat without my being able to keep an eye on it.

I potentially would be on a localish journey such as the 40 minutes or so to/from London, but now the station bog is free I probably won't use the train one. I can't imagine any situation in which I would be making an InterCity journey without having at least one spare item of clothing with me at all (probably some kind of jacket, as after all in England it often rains at any time of year).

bussnapperwm · 28 Aug 2019

Chris M said:
Very often, espeically during the summer, I'm travelling without anything I'm prepared to leave on a seat without my being able to keep an eye on it.

Same here.

Plus are we not meant to keep all of our luggage and belongings with us at all times

mmh · 28 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I potentially would be on a localish journey such as the 40 minutes or so to/from London, but now the station bog is free I probably won't use the train one. I can't imagine any situation in which I would be making an InterCity journey without having at least one spare item of clothing with me at all (probably some kind of jacket, as after all in England it often rains at any time of year).

I think most of mine have probably been trips to football matches in the summer months. When I was younger occasionally trips to concerts / nightclubs.

I didn't go away for the day over this bank holiday, but if I had I doubt I'd have taken a jacket with me!

Bletchleyite · 28 Aug 2019

mmh said:
I think most of mine have probably been trips to football matches in the summer months. When I was younger occasionally trips to concerts / nightclubs.

I didn't go away for the day over this bank holiday, but if I had I doubt I'd have taken a jacket with me!

Football is I suppose an odd case (because grounds don't like bags being taken in), but I'd certainly have a jacket or jumper around my waist.

If I was going out for the day to somewhere further afield I would certainly have a bag with me.

westv · 28 Aug 2019

bussnapperwm said:
Same here.

Plus are we not meant to keep all of our luggage and belongings with us at all times

What's the purpose of the luggage areas at the end of some coaches then?

6Gman · 28 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Football is I suppose an odd case (because grounds don't like bags being taken in), but I'd certainly have a jacket or jumper around my waist.

If I was going out for the day to somewhere further afield I would certainly have a bag with me.

Since my bag usually contains:

camera - several hundred pounds
gps - around £80
binoculars - same again
and various books of significant importance to me

I'm unlikely to leave it unattended on a seat.

bramling · 28 Aug 2019

Mogz said:
As a regular traveller on CrossCountry trains (often as a turn-up-and-go passenger) I note that there are often many many seats that are reserved but for which the holder does not turn up.

This creates confusion as people will loiter in the aisles to see if the holder does turn up, or will occupy a seat in the hope that the holder does not, only to have to move if they do.

In the 1950s, seat reservations cost the nominal fee of One Shilling.

I wonder whether charging a nominal fee of £1 for a reservation today would deter casual seat reservations and thereby free up “available” seats on trains that are too short and usually packed to the rafters, even off-peak?

Absolutely IMO there should be a charge. As you rightly say many people don't turn up, and aside from this I don't see why someone (especially those on a cheap advance ticket) should get a free service on top of this.

I'd make the charge slightly more than £1. To me £5 to £10 would be reasonable.

High Dyke · 28 Aug 2019

westv said:
What's the purpose of the luggage areas at the end of some coaches then?

Sitting in, if not rammed with luggage. It may be nearer your mates or it saves you having to sit next to someone else or even occupy someone's unused reserved seat.

Cynicism aside there are many times when I've travelled and sat in a reserved seat for a journey where the reservation isn't applicable. Whatever the solution is you can be sure it will be the fare paying public that end up paying for it!

Train jaune · 28 Aug 2019

Not sure about crosscountry but the situation with TPE trains from Manchester to Scotland is a daily free for all in evening peak. Trains are full with lots of people standing the 40 minutes to Preston. Virtually all seats are reserved with about half actually turning up. So it's do you lurk about, just grab a seat understanding there is a 50/50 chance you'll be turfed out or resign yourself to standing. I usually prefer to await a Northern service to Barrow with no reservations and none of the angst.

VT 390 · 28 Aug 2019

bramling said:
Absolutely IMO there should be a charge. As you rightly say many people don't turn up, and aside from this I don't see why someone (especially those on a cheap advance ticket) should get a free service on top of this.

I'd make the charge slightly more than £1. To me £5 to £10 would be reasonable.

I agree a charge should be made but anything more than about £2 per journey seams like to much as if you have split tickets for your journey you could be paying anything from £20 upwards with a £10 charge which could be more than your ticket.

westv · 28 Aug 2019

bramling said:
Absolutely IMO there should be a charge. As you rightly say many people don't turn up, and aside from this I don't see why someone (especially those on a cheap advance ticket) should get a free service on top of this.

I'd make the charge slightly more than £1. To me £5 to £10 would be reasonable.

You'll be disappointed to hear then that AP tickets are likely to never have a charge. The idea of doing so is quite ridiculous.

Chris M · 28 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
If I was going out for the day to somewhere further afield I would certainly have a bag with me.

I do have a bag with me, but similarly to 6Gman:

6Gman said:
Since my bag usually contains:

camera - several hundred pounds
gps - around £80
binoculars - same again
and various books of significant importance to me

I'm unlikely to leave it unattended on a seat.

My bag usually has:
camera - several hundred pounds
lenses - several hundred pounds
memory card and spare - total ~£70 (plus unrecoverable photos on the way home)
flash unit - ~£40
filters - collectively ~£50
Spare batteries - 2× £20
Camera battery charger - £15
Camera clamp - £10
kindle - ~£80
high capacity powerbank - ~£30
Waterproof jacket - ~£30
heavy duty water bottle - ~£15
USB adapter and cables - ~£15
along with various small items that probably total another £15, a couple of cheap but sentimental items, and, sometimes, important letters, etc.
there is no way I'm leaving that unattended on a train.

RPM · 28 Aug 2019

Mogz said:
As a regular traveller on CrossCountry trains (often as a turn-up-and-go passenger) I note that there are often many many seats that are reserved but for which the holder does not turn up.

This creates confusion as people will loiter in the aisles to see if the holder does turn up, or will occupy a seat in the hope that the holder does not, only to have to move if they do.

In the 1950s, seat reservations cost the nominal fee of One Shilling.

I wonder whether charging a nominal fee of £1 for a reservation today would deter casual seat reservations and thereby free up “available” seats on trains that are too short and usually packed to the rafters, even off-peak?

Well that was the way in BR days. £1 for a seat reservation. Then, post-privatisation, the TOCs one by one made it free. Except for Central Trains. Back in booking office days I remember pax complaining bitterly about CT reservation fees, just after it had ceased to be the norm. I'm not sure it would be welcomed back.

bramling · 28 Aug 2019

westv said:
You'll be disappointed to hear then that AP tickets are likely to never have a charge. The idea of doing so is quite ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? These ticket holders appear to be among the worst offenders for failing to turn up, an optional charge might help discourage this.

I’ve never really understood why people on bargain-basement tickets should get niceties like reserved seats, especially when it’s to the detriment of people who pay a *lot* more for tickets on the day.

It seems to work quite well on those services where advances are restricted to a particular train without having a specific seat reservation.

Mugby · 28 Aug 2019

On the XC Nottingham - Cardiff services, I've seen 2-car 170s with every seat on the train reserved and many of them unclaimed.

As the OP states, it causes havoc at all the large stations with passengers in the aisles wondering whether to sit down or not!

ChilternTurbo · 28 Aug 2019

Most of my long distance rail travel is paid for by my company and our corporate travel booker organises my tickets and I have no control over the seat I'm allocated. Usually I end up with a reserved seat in quiet carriage which I will not use as I may need to make or receive phone calls or on a Pendolino, I get the dreadful seat that has a view of a window pillar. A charge wouldn't make a jot of difference to me to be honest...

Paying for seat reservations

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