The response to the new trains has been good for Northern. They're second nature to me now on the Manchester Airport - Liverpool route but passengers still intrigued as they are only on a handful routes. I happened to be at Rochdale this morning and noticed a new 195 on test standing on the opposite platform. Passengers waiting for the train to Manchester Vic were curious and were allowed a quick sneek peek by the driver. A few people on the platform were talking about them today at Piccadilly but saying they've 'caught sight' of them but have not yet been on one.
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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates
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hooverboy
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I guess that's just down to traction training,it's a rolling programme after all and it's unreasonable to expect everything to drop into place immediately.
Even massively experienced drivers are going to take a little extra time to familiarise themselves with all the bells and whistles.
customers are impatient..whatever industry you happen to be in.
it's good that the overall response has been positive
Staffordian
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From your experience as a regular user, do you feel the ‘door problems’ are becoming less of an issue now ? In the early days, posters on here mentioned them all the time, but hardly at all now. Not sure if this is because they’ve been fixed, or the problems are so frequent they aren’t worth mentioning.
No door problems on any 195's I have caught recently. I catch a lot.
I've not seen any door problems for a couple of weeks now, even though I use them twice a day most days. They seem to have got on top of it, fingers crossed.
I use them a couple of times a week and remember the issue with doors suddenly closing occurring on my last two journeys at Piccadilly/Oxford Road. Today the inbound service to Manchester that would become my train home (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60073/2019/08/29/advanced) also sat down at Oxford Road for half an hour due to a fault and was terminated short at Piccadilly.
Yes, the doors are less of an issue now. The door problem only really surfaced at Piccadilly and Oxford Road in all honesty (potentially something to do with the bi-directional platforms) but they appear to have been mitigated/addressed.
I would state that all Northern drivers appear to have become a lot more careful in where the train should stop in recent weeks - even with non-195 units. It was a bit laissez faire previously - as long as you could see the signal ahead you were fine. I suspect Northern management have sent a memo around that trains have to start stopping where the coach boards are - possibly to do with the ADSO beacons. Llama has described this problem recently and how the margin of error is 3 metres which isn't a lot.
Still a hell of lot of problems with software though. A three coach 195 thinking it is a peak-time doubled up unit with incorrect announcements that this unit is "too big to be accommodated in the platform". Manchester Airport service on Tuesday had its destination on the external front LED and internal screens as Mauldeth Road etc.
I've been on one within the last week or so where the doors have started closing, can't remember when, sorry. The problem of the doors is very much reduced, compared to how it was, but it hasn't been eliminated.
As to the one which gave trouble this afternoon, the relevant unit (195122) did manage to depart Piccadilly for Barrow at 1604, so whatever was giving the trouble must have been sorted. It clearly wasn't sorted in a flash, arrival at Picc had been 1529, and departure should have been 1548, but I can't say what happened to it between 1529 and 1604 as there are no shunt moves showing on RTT.
I have to say that, from a reliability viewpoint, 195s have, for me, been a huge disappointment. Forummers have been quick to point out how unreliable the 319s have been, but on a given day there are likely to be a much higher proportion of the active 195 fleet out of action than 319s. Okay, 319s are more likely to come to a standstill (since trouble with doors doesn't usually make a unit immobile) but the 195s have given trouble with brakes as well as doors, witness the four-hour blockage at Hunts Cross. As to trouble with doors, if the worst comes to the worst you can always boot the fare-paying passengers off and take the 195 to a terminus or depot ECS, but that's hardly clever.
northernchris
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Hopefully once maintenance staff and traincrew have become familiar with common faults it will become easier to repair them. Older stock still has disruptive failures every now and then, look at the 91s on the ECML!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
How many more days will the Class 195 units need to complete their training schedule now?
As you're wondering, I was tracking it while waiting on Piccadilly platform 14 for it to turn round - it sat in platform 13 until about 1545 including having the starting signal set back to red, then went to turn around in a loop near Longsight (not sure of the name). On its way back in it was also shown to go into the Mayfield loop for another few minutes, but was not overtaken by anything.
Staffordian
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Thanks for this and all the other replies on this issue.
"Very much reduced, but not eliminated" seems to sum up the current position very well.
On the Allocations thread last week there was a report that ASLEF had placed a deadline of 30 September for this to be sorted. Presumably this still stands until it is totally resolved ?
palmersears
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Travelling on these to and from Lime Street each day I echo the sentiments above about the door issue being greatly reduced. I've noted one or two, mainly at Oxford Road, but it's much better than it was.
Two 195/0s and twelve 195/1s reported up to now.
Many months yet.
Travelled on a 195/1 yesterday and was impressed.
There is quite a wide pillar between some windows and I feel this area would been useful as a luggage storage and thereby have allowed better seat alignment with the windows. At present, storage provision is by the door and this results in a mis-alignment of seating with some not having a window.
The only other thing I didn't like was the seat backs, tray tables and seat surrounds were black plastic. It might reduce the occasions someone is tempted to scrawl graffiti, but a neutral silver grey would have looked better. The whole carriage would be significantly brighter using lighter materials. TPE 185's have a far nicer interior colour scheme IMHO.
There is quite a wide pillar between some windows and I feel this area would been useful as a luggage storage and thereby have allowed better seat alignment with the windows. At present, storage provision is by the door and this results in a mis-alignment of seating with some not having a window.
The only other thing I didn't like was the seat backs, tray tables and seat surrounds were black plastic. It might reduce the occasions someone is tempted to scrawl graffiti, but a neutral silver grey would have looked better. The whole carriage would be significantly brighter using lighter materials. TPE 185's have a far nicer interior colour scheme IMHO.
The ASDO beacons are nothing to do with Northern's class 195s which do not interact with them in any way. They are for TPE's new trains. Class 195s use a different means of determining where they are and how many doors can be accommodated in any given platform.
We apparently have them but opted for the cheaper option of it. Issues only seem to be arising in bi-di or multiple platform areas.
ohgoditsjames
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195103 seen in Sheffield this morning!
Bornin1980s
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That may have been true in analogue days, but software faults are impossible to resolve on the ground.
J-2739
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I saw it too! And another unit, which I didn't grab the number of.
Yes I believe so, it's only reliable on two-line unidirectional railway.
Class 195s do not use external balises or beacons for ASDO door control. They utilise a completely different system using a combination of GPS and their onboard database along with interaction from the onboard staff. This allows the ASDO system to work at the many small rural stations served by Northern without the need to install expensive track mounted equipment at every single station. In theory the ASDO system could work anywhere if it has the relevant information in its database. They do not interact with the track mounted equipment that has recently been installed at Oxford Road and a number of other locations across the north west.
Bertie the bus
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Can the ASDO system be turned off? I’m assuming it is fitted to facilitate drivers operating the doors but as that is not currently happening, and it’s not clear whether it ever will on Northern, could standard SDO not be used on these trains until they get to the bottom of the problem?
Bertie the bus
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Having thought about it I can see that even turning it off temporarily would be a major PR coup for the RMT in its dispute. Though, if ASLEF do refuse to work them that would be far worse politically as withdrawing them from service and bringing the stored Pacers back would be reported far more widely. Northern seem to be playing a dangerous game.
LeylandLen
Member
I heard on local BBC radio just now, that there is a 'New' train on display at Blackpool N today eventually to be used for services to Liverpool and Man Airport. I assume its this https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S08222/2019/08/30/advanced.
Is anybody able to give its number and confirm its on display to public ?
Is anybody able to give its number and confirm its on display to public ?
Sprinter150
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Mentioned in this thread (it is a class 331):
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...struction-introduction-updates.160120/page-28
https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/northerns-new-train-set-to-light-up-blackpool
Afraid I can't help with the number, but you'll probably have more luck on the 331 thread or TOPS.
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