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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

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anme

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Leave ASAP, preferably without a "deal"

Shall we put that to a referendum? It's hardly what was promised first time around. Anyway, even Nige doesn't support it any more.

Leaving with no deal is probably the quickest way to get the Nissan workers in Sunderland sacked. To be fair, they did vote for that, so I guess that is an argument for no deal.
 
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Paddy O'Doors

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I've no idea what people that voted to leave wanted but I don't recall many people suggesting there would be no deal

I voted to leave the EU, simple as that, whatever it takes.
If the question on the ballot paper had said "would you still be prepared to leave with "no deal" I would still have voted to leave.
 

anme

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I voted to leave the EU, simple as that, whatever it takes.
If the question on the ballot paper had said "would you still be prepared to leave with "no deal" I would still have voted to leave.

Please could you clarify - did the ballot paper say that?
I voted to leave but I want the Norway option (as does Nigel Farage). So that cancels out your "no-deal-sack-all-the-Nissan-workers-and-put-them-and-their-families-on-benefits-for-the-rest-of-their-lives brexit".
 

Paddy O'Doors

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Shall we put that to a referendum? It's hardly what was promised first time around.

I really don't think it would make any difference. I think that 99% of the people that voted leave would still vote the same way again.
It does annoy me when remoaners say "you didn't know what you were voting for" Yes I did, I voted to leave the EU, whatever it takes.
 

anme

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I really don't think it would make any difference. I think that 99% of the people that voted leave would still vote the same way again.
It does annoy me when remoaners say "you didn't know what you were voting for" Yes I did, I voted to leave the EU, whatever it takes.

I voted leave and my vote is just as valid as yours. Why do far right leavers deny that we Norway leavers exist? What are you scared of?

Nigel Farage and I want the Norway option. Why can't you understand that?
 

edwin_m

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On both sides let's not forget.
Overwhelmingly on the Leave side.

Remainers predicted various things that might happen, and mostly still could. If you have evidence of blatant lying by the Remain campaign (things that they said at the time that couldn't possibly be true according to facts known at the time) then please post it.

Leavers said things that were demonstrably false at the time, such as the £350m on the bus, and refused to withdraw their remarks when pointed out as such by official bodies. They were either extremely stupid or of malicious intent. I don't think Boris is stupid. And since the referendum they have been lying about what they said then, particularly the possibillity of no deal.
 

anme

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krus_aragon

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Nige is too honourable to con people by changing his mind after the referendum.

...

I refer you to my answer above. The camera doesn't lie - Nigel Farage wants us to stay in the single market.
Yet the video footage in the 2019 article seems to show him saying something different to the 2016 footage. Strange. :s
 

SHD

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Please could you clarify - did the ballot paper say that?
I voted to leave but I want the Norway option (as does Nigel Farage). So that cancels out your "no-deal-sack-all-the-Nissan-workers-and-put-them-and-their-families-on-benefits-for-the-rest-of-their-lives brexit".

Nigel Farage wants the UK to accept the four freedoms, including freedom of movement, and to participate substantially to the EU budget? Really?
 

anme

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Yet the video footage in the 2019 article seems to show him saying something different to the 2016 footage. Strange. :s

Are you arguing that Nige conned people and then changed his mind? I really hope not. I voted leave because of what he said about the Norway/Switerland options.
 

krus_aragon

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Are you arguing that Nige conned people and then changed his mind? I really hope not. I voted leave because of what he said about the Norway/Switerland options.
It could also be argued that he still holds the opinion he expressed in 2016, and that what he said this week is a con. Or maybe he believed that negotiations could lead directly to a Norway-style solution, without having to negotiate a separate withdrawal first. Either way, I couldn't presume to know what his inner thoughts are. The best I could do is guess.
 

anme

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It could also be argued that he still holds the opinion he expressed in 2016, and that what he said this week is a con. Either way, I couldn't presume to know what his inner thoughts are. The best I could do is guess.

But Nigel is an honourable man and he wouldn't change his opinion on such an important topic. He and I both want to stay in the single market.
 

SHD

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But Nigel is an honourable man and he wouldn't change his opinion on such an important topic. He and I both want to stay in the single market.

Ha, I see. Nigel is indeed a most honourable gentleman and perfectly informed about Norway’s relationship with the European Union, as the video shiningly proves.
 

anme

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Ha, I see. Nigel is indeed a most honourable gentleman and perfectly informed about Norway’s relationship with the European Union, as the video shiningly proves.

If Nigel had promoted one thing during the referendum campaign, but was promoting another thing now, that would be pretty serious. We would need another referendum for sure.
 

krus_aragon

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I've taken another glance at the NI Act that was meant to stop Parliament from being prorogued. Here's the relevant part:
3 Reports on progress towards forming an Executive and other matters
(1)The Secretary of State must, on or before 4 September 2019, publish a report explaining what progress has been made towards the formation of an Executive in Northern Ireland (unless an Executive has already been formed).

(2)The Secretary of State must make arrangements for—
(a)a copy of each report published under subsection (1) to be laid before each House of Parliament by the end of the day on which it is published,
(b)a motion in neutral terms, to the effect that the House of Commons has considered the report, to be moved in the House of Commons by a Minister of the Crown, and
(c)a motion for the House of Lords to take note of the report to be tabled in the House of Lords and moved by a Minister of the Crown.

(3)The motions required under subsections (2)(b) and (c) must be moved in the relevant House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five calendar days beginning with the end of the day on which the report is laid before Parliament.

(4)If, as a result of Parliament standing prorogued or adjourned, a Minister of the Crown cannot comply with the obligations in subsection (2) or (3), a proclamation under the Meeting of Parliament Act 1797 shall require Parliament to meet on a specified day within the period within which compliance with subsection (3) is required and to meet on the five following days (other than Saturdays, Sundays or a day which is a bank holiday in the United Kingdom or in any part of the United Kingdom) to allow for compliance with subsection (3).

(5)The Secretary of State shall make a further report under subsection (1) on or before 9 October 2019 and at least every fourteen calendar days thereafter until either an Executive is formed or until 18 December 2019, whichever is the sooner.
So a report is required before Parliament on or before the 4th of September, there must be a debate in Parliament within 5 days, then a further report on or before the 9th of October (and debate), then every 14 days. If Parliament is prorogued, Parliament will be required to meet for the report of debate anyway.

The 9th of October is before the planned prorogation ends.

My reading of things is as follows: The Government could present their report next week (as required), hold the debate, and then present a second report immediately. But the language of the act appears to require further reports every 14 days after the second report, as opposed to every 14 days after the 9th. If that is the case, Parliament will have to meet and conduct business during the prorogation anyway.
 

edwin_m

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I've taken another glance at the NI Act that was meant to stop Parliament from being prorogued. Here's the relevant part:

So a report is required before Parliament on or before the 4th of September, there must be a debate in Parliament within 5 days, then a further report on or before the 9th of October (and debate), then every 14 days. If Parliament is prorogued, Parliament will be required to meet for the report of debate anyway.

The 9th of October is before the planned prorogation ends.

My reading of things is as follows: The Government could present their report next week (as required), hold the debate, and then present a second report immediately. But the language of the act appears to require further reports every 14 days after the second report, as opposed to every 14 days after the 9th. If that is the case, Parliament will have to meet and conduct business during the prorogation anyway.
I think this allows for the second report to be produced on 9 October and the debate to be held within 5 days on the 14th, which is the date of the Queen's Speech so after the end of prorogation. It's probably the reason the 14th was chosen. The debates on the first three reports also eat into the time available for other business before 31 October.
 

krus_aragon

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I think this allows for the second report to be produced on 9 October and the debate to be held within 5 days on the 14th, which is the date of the Queen's Speech so after the end of prorogation. It's probably the reason the 14th was chosen. The debates on the first three reports also eat into the time available for other business before 31 October.
Possibly, but a copy of the report must "be laid before each House of Parliament by the end of the day on which it is published". So if that's the Government's intention, they'd have to order Parliament to sit on the 9th as well.
 

edwin_m

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Possibly, but a copy of the report must "be laid before each House of Parliament by the end of the day on which it is published". So if that's the Government's intention, they'd have to order Parliament to sit on the 9th as well.
I'd have thought if that was the correct interpretation, at least one of the legal brains involved would have picked it up by now.
 

krus_aragon

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I'd have thought if that was the correct interpretation, at least one of the legal brains involved would have picked it up by now.
True, though some of the "inner" legal brains will be keeping quiet so as not to let their opposition know what they're planning (like the Government had kept quiet about the prorogation until Wednesday).

If you can see an interpretation of that act that allows the Government to avoid Parliament being recalled between the 9th/12th of September and the 14th of October, I'd be happy to have it pointed out to me.
 

edwin_m

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True, though some of the "inner" legal brains will be keeping quiet so as not to let their opposition know what they're planning (like the Government had kept quiet about the prorogation until Wednesday).

If you can see an interpretation of that act that allows the Government to avoid Parliament being recalled between the 9th/12th of September and the 14th of October, I'd be happy to have it pointed out to me.
I guess it depends on the meaning of "laid before". Presumably something can be laid before Parliament even if it's not there at the time.
 

krus_aragon

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I guess it depends on the meaning of "laid before". Presumably something can be laid before Parliament even if it's not there at the time.
You may be correct there. From another browse of Erskine May:
The presentation of papers to the House of Commons is effected by their delivery to the Votes and Proceedings Office (Journal Office), and to the House of Lords by their delivery to the Printed Paper Office.1 If the delivery of papers takes place at a time when Parliament is sitting, their titles are entered in the Appendix to the Votes and Proceedings and the Minutes of Proceedings for the day on which they are presented. Following presentation, papers are generally ordered by the two Houses to lie upon the Table. Under Standing Order No 158 of the House of Commons and Standing Order No 69 of the House of Lords, the delivery of Command Papers during periods when the House is not sitting is deemed to be for all purposes the presentation of them to each House; and in such cases the lists of their titles are entered in the Votes and Minutes when sittings are resumed. Similar provisions enabling presentation when the Houses are not sitting extend also to certain statutory instruments (see paras 31.1131.12 ), but not to other Act Papers.
 

anme

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Personally I just want to get on with it. Get out of the EU, get those Nissan workers in Sunderland fired, get the brexiteers totally discredited by their own hands, get back in.
 

edwin_m

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Personally I just want to get on with it. Get out of the EU, get those Nissan workers in Sunderland fired, get the brexiteers totally discredited by their own hands, get back in.
I'm not sure how serious you are with these posts - taken at face value you are entirely happy to see thousands thrown out of work to prove a point. You may be trying to be ironic but it's difficult to do in writing at the best of times. On a topic as inflamed as this one people are apt to get the wrong end of the stick and use it to poke someone in the eye.
 

anme

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I'm not sure how serious you are with these posts - taken at face value you are entirely happy to see thousands thrown out of work to prove a point. You may be trying to be ironic but it's difficult to do in writing at the best of times. On a topic as inflamed as this one people are apt to get the wrong end of the stick and use it to poke someone in the eye.

Have you got a better plan? Mine is at least practical and will be quite funny for the rest of the world to watch.
 
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