AlbertBeale
Established Member
True - and it's also true (in London anyway) that their driving is much worse; so the increased danger they bring is much more than just because of the number of them.
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Taxis in bus lanes
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True - and it's also true (in London anyway) that their driving is much worse; so the increased danger they bring is much more than just because of the number of them.
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Which studies have shown this?
AlbertBeale
Established Member
My own studies of how imperilled I feel every day out on the roads in central London on my bike, and the amount of illegal, inconsiderate and dangerous behaviour I actually see every single day. (And the experiences of other central London cyclists I know.) Over many years, the only other thing that's made me feel (and be) so under threat while cycling in central London that bears any comparison with the current crop of mini-cab drivers was the use of those 60-foot-long "bendy buses" that were around for some years. (I was run into the kerb and nearly seriously injured by them several times.) The other most dangerous (newish) thing currently, though overall less frightening than the behaviour of Ubers etc, is allowing motorbikes into some of the bus lanes which double as cycle lanes. (Worsened by the fact that since motorbikes have been allowed in some bus lanes, they seem to have been emboldened to use other ones as well.)
My experience is that licensed black cab drivers are the worst, although plenty of other drivers are also very bad.
Personally I like bendy buses.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Hmmm - interesting. Is this from your point of view as a pedestrian, driver, bus-user, or what? Since a lot of my time on the roads is on a bike (though also on foot and by bus of course at times), maybe my increased vulnerability makes me more sensitive to bad behaviour, because I'm on the receiving end. I know that black cabs can also be tricky (I've had the odd run-in with them over the years!), but the difference between their professionalism and the behaviour of mini-cabs is - in my daily experience - overwhelming.
PS - yes - bendy buses are "likeable" - I've enjoyed them (in various ways) in foreign cities where I'm not cycling. But to be on the road with them every day, on my bike, was genuinely frightening.
Genuine question - how can you tell if a car is a mini-cab or an Uber driver?
The best country for cycling is also a big user of articulated buses. This works because cycles and motor vehicles are kept apart.
I have never had a problem with bendy buses when on a bike.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I believe Uber is classified as minicab in London. It's certainly not a licensed taxi - remember all the legal wrangles about why the app wasn't a meter?
Indeed, but that wasn't my question. People were saying that Uber drivers and minicabs are very dangerous. I was asking how you can tell if a car is an Uber or a minicab, as opposed to a private car, given that they are unmarked.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Private-hire cars have little stickers in their windows - not as obvious as black cabs of course, but there if you look, so they're distinguishable from ordinary private cars. If you mean how to distinguish between Uber and other private-hire cars (since that's what Uber are), I wasn't making the point about mini-cab dangerousness only about Uber specifically. However, the vast increase in danger (as I perceive it) caused by "mini-cabs"/private-hire in recent years has gone along with the increased use of phone apps by mini-cab users, and Uber make up a large proportion of the increase in private hire related to phone apps. Also, car markings, and passenger behaviour at the roadside, helps to distinguish between more traditionally booked mini-caps and app-based ones. Any reference I've made to Ubers specifically might be read as also applying to any similar examples of the apps-driven increase in the number of mini-cabs in London driven by inexperienced drivers.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
They usually a magnetic sticker on the side identifying the company. Some authorities insist on PHV licence plates or other markings such as "advance(d) bookings only". In the case of London: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/taxis-and-minicabs/what-to-expect-from-your-journey.
Website doesn't appear to be quotable, but notes that the driver should be wearing a photo ID, there will be a yellow disc on the front and rear windscreens and optionally a purple "Pre-booked only" roundel.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Also - if someone is at the side of the road waving a mobile phone, and a "car" swerves illegally into a bus lane or a bike lane to pick them up (as often happens to me - I had a near-miss [near-hit?] again yesterday), then it's a good bet that the car is a mini-cab/whatever. And it always turns out that that is the case when you look closely and see the sticker in the window. So that's another way of distinguishing private-hire cars from ordinary cars...
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Indeed!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They are only frightening if you filter alongside them. Respect them and give them space to manoeuvre and they are no issue at all.
There is nothing dangerous about Uber or Minicabs, it's *some* of the people that these companies employ that can be dangerous and it would make no difference whatsoever who's name is stuck to the back window of the car and/or on the door, the dangerous people are still going to be dangerous regardless of who they work for.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The argument is that in London (and ONLY in London) the barrier to becoming a black taxi driver is too high for such people to get in.
In other cities the barrier is lower, and so without the supervision provided by working for a minicab company (who will do something about drivers who get repeated complaints from passengers) you tend to get the dregs in the black cabs, not the minicabs.
How does the taxi driver know until after he's stopped though?
The 9.9m tridents I drive take 86 people
The 11m E400Mmcs take 105/106 depending on seating layout
How are you defining the best country for cycling?
Netherlands? Indeed they do have a cycling network which could be a role model to all of the other countries
The one with the best infrastructure.
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Accident levels were lower for London's articulated buses than for other types.
cnjb8
Established Member
Deleted
But in modern society reputation cares not for facts!
AlbertBeale
Established Member
I know better than to filter alongside long vehcles! I'm an experienced cyclist. The danger I had from bendy buses in London was when they overtook me in a bus-and-bike lane close to a bus stop, and then cut in. Since they're twice the length of an ordinary bus, there's far less scope to pull back and get behind them. I was run into the kerb many times by them when cycling carefully and legitimately. I know I wasn't the only cyclist who had that experience.
Mitchell Hurd
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Sorry if someone's said similar to what I'm saying on here but I know taxi's are also forms of public transport but they should not be allowed in bus lanes. Bus lanes are for buses and coaches.
If I've understood this correctly, a well-known TV presenter I believe drove his preserved old black taxi (Austin model - that sort) in a bus lane he said.
If I've understood this correctly, a well-known TV presenter I believe drove his preserved old black taxi (Austin model - that sort) in a bus lane he said.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
That "bus lanes are for buses and coaches" is a preference/decision, not a fact. It's equally arguable that "proper" taxis, as part of the pubic transport system, should be allowed in bus lanes. Incidentally, many bus lanes in London are explicitly for local TfL buses, and coaches are technically not allowed. And there are some bus lanes in London which do reasonably exclude taxis: where there's more than one other lane, where there are "proper" places for taxis to pick up and set down close by, where it would be tempting for lots of taxis to set down there if allowed, and where the intensity of bus use and bus stops requires it - the stretch of road in front of Kings Cross station for example. That seems reasonable, and taxis comply with it. (Mini-cabs / private hires / Ubers / etc often don't comply, however, even though they shouldn't be there even if taxis were allowed... I often see them trying to drop people off or pick people up there.)
'Bus lanes are for buses and coaches' is a fact, that's what the original legislation said. All other users (taxis, bikes, motorbikes, electric vehicles) are add-ons using local legislation. Some also have local legislation to make them 'local buses only' to exclude coaches.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
There are a number of definitions of the word "fact" - but I don't want to get over-philosophical, so I'll leave it...
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