Train shown as cancelled

Baysdale · 29 Aug 2019

We arrived at DARLINGTON station on 16th Aug 2019 at about 7pm. We bought two tickets for the Northern train to Eaglescliffe (scheduled we were told for 19:18). When we reached the departure platform a fellow traveller alerted us to the departures board which showed the 19:18 as ‘Cancelled’. We returned to the kiosk to seek advice ( didn’t leave the platform). The rail staff advice was we could turn in our tickets for a full refund or we would get a refund if we got the next train which was the 19:40. We returned to our position on the platform and awaited the next train with the other passengers who were still there from the earlier time (awaiting the 19:18).
We arrived at our home station 30 mins after the original schedule ( we caught the 19:40)
We were refused a rebate because Northern claim the 19:18 did run as the late 19:25.
I have checked on openrail times and it does show a19:25 leaving Darlington and identifies this as the late running 19:18.
My question is 1) Is it usual for trains which have been shown as ‘Cancelled’ to suddenly appear? (we didn’t see it)
2) Is there some obvious explanation that I have missed?
3) Is Openrail Times reliable?
Thanks

RailUK Forums

800002 · 29 Aug 2019

It appears --HERE-- that the 1918, 2D62 Darlington - Saltburn ran on the 16th Aug, 7 late, throughout. It terminated short at Middlesborough.

Baysdale said:
1) Is it usual for trains which have been shown as ‘Cancelled’ to suddenly appear? (we didn’t see it)

I can't answer as to it being shown as 'Cancelled'. It's incoming working, 2D49, 1911 arrival was 7 late, which is why it was delayed.

Baysdale said:
2) Is there some obvious explanation that I have missed?

The only thing I can think of is, was it on a different platform to its usual platform?
(on the source, above, it's listed at #2, which I believe though is its usual platform). Was there a train that arrived from the south and departed again to the south?

Baysdale said:
3) Is Openrail Times reliable?

Yes - generally all the open source sites are 'reliable' in some way or another when it comes to showing late running services / cancellations / VSTP (very short term planning) schedules.

Sorry, I've probably not been very helpful.

I've never come across a train that has been cancelled, then reinstated. I wouldn't know what that would look like, in the open data displays (if it displays at all).

Baysdale · 30 Aug 2019

Many thanks for your reply. It is bizarre that the 1918 appeared as cancelled and we advised by station staff to take the 1940.
After the time of advice the train must have been reinstated (but why cancelled and not late running is beyond me.)I guess we & others must have missed the announcement & vdu departures board amendments.
Thanks again.

ComUtoR · 30 Aug 2019

Baysdale said:
My question is 1) Is it usual for trains which have been shown as ‘Cancelled’ to suddenly appear? (we didn’t see it)

Thanks

Yes. Happens quite frequently across the network.

blue87 · 30 Aug 2019

Had that happen to me at York on the way to Middlesbrough not too long back, I arrived at York to find one cancelled, rather than hang around the station for a hour, I went round to a nearby Wetherspoons for a drink and bite to eat only to receive a text from a mate also catching it to tell me it had been reinstated.

Darandio · 30 Aug 2019

Baysdale said:
The rail staff advice was we could turn in our tickets for a full refund or we would get a refund if we got the next train which was the 19:40.

This is one part I cannot understand, why they would advise you of a full refund if you caught a train 22 minutes later than planned.

From what I can see you would have arrived at 19:33 if you caught the original train and it had been on time. You caught the 19:40 which is down as actually arriving at Eaglescliffe at 20:01 and you were therefore 28 minutes late. You wouldn't be eligible for a full refund, but under delay repay would have been eligible for compensation of 25% of a single journey or 12.5% of a return journey.

That is my reading of it, i'm happy to be corrected.

Haywain · 30 Aug 2019

Darandio said:
This is one part I cannot understand, why they would advise you of a full refund if you caught a train 22 minutes later than planned.

The post you quote says a refund if catching the later train, not a full refund.

Darandio · 30 Aug 2019

Haywain said:
The post you quote says a refund if catching the later train, not a full refund.

Indeed it doesn't, but i'm sure some people would interpret the word refund as a refund in full.

All I can suggest is filling in the delay repay form, select the 19:18 as your service and clearly explain in the provided comments box what the situation was regarding the status of the departure board on arrival and advice given at the station. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they ignore any provided comment and repeat what they have already told you though.

IanXC · 30 Aug 2019

Is it possible the train was terminated short of its destination?

As in the other passengers wanted Saltburn and it was terminating at Middlesbrough, so to them it was cancelled. Maybe confusion has arisen due to "oh I see the Saltburn train is cancelled?" "yeah you'll need to get the one in half an hour".

Anvil1984 · 30 Aug 2019

IanXC said:
Is it possible the train was terminated short of its destination?

As in the other passengers wanted Saltburn and it was terminating at Middlesbrough, so to them it was cancelled. Maybe confusion has arisen due to "oh I see the Saltburn train is cancelled?" "yeah you'll need to get the one in half an hour".

It is possible and would explain the staff confusion but the departure screen still shouldn't show as cancelled unless the person operating it made a bungle / misunderstood or the service changed headcode. If it was a Darlington to Saltburn terminating short as the OP suggests then the screen would just show 1918 Middlesbrough instead of 1918 Saltburn Via Middlesbrough (or even possibly 1918 Middlesbrough via Middlesbrough which I've seen before).
The only time I've seen a PIS show one service as cancelled where a service has ran is when its been cancelled and restarted from point later than its origin station. Most often I've seen this is usually on the Tyne Valley Line when a Middlesbrough to Hexham service was restarting at Newcastle but the PIS (at somewhere like Metrocentre) was too fixated on the original service being cancelled

that probably makes no sense

IanXC · 31 Aug 2019

Anvil1984 said:
It is possible and would explain the staff confusion but the departure screen still shouldn't show as cancelled unless the person operating it made a bungle / misunderstood or the service changed headcode. If it was a Darlington to Saltburn terminating short as the OP suggests then the screen would just show 1918 Middlesbrough instead of 1918 Saltburn Via Middlesbrough (or even possibly 1918 Middlesbrough via Middlesbrough which I've seen before).
The only time I've seen a PIS show one service as cancelled where a service has ran is when its been cancelled and restarted from point later than its origin station. Most often I've seen this is usually on the Tyne Valley Line when a Middlesbrough to Hexham service was restarting at Newcastle but the PIS (at somewhere like Metrocentre) was too fixated on the original service being cancelled

that probably makes no sense

I was more reading it that the OP hadn't read the screen themselves but was relying on what the other passenger had said to them.

gray1404 · 1 Sep 2019

You need to fill out the Delay Repay form in this case on the Northern website.

Baysdale · 2 Sep 2019

Thanks for all of your replies.
About the full refund. That was if we handed our tickets back and didn’t travel.
The service was definitely on the display as ‘Saltburn cancelled’. We sat in the waiting room watching the board and it remained cancelled until it scrolled off the board.
Northern repay were not much use. The twitter folk were much more pleasant. Didn’t manage to get through by phone - only had the odd 39 minutes to waste.
Its only a couple of £ and although I was annoyed by the poor delay/repay customer services more than the late train. I think I’ll just put it down to experience.

Tetchytyke · 5 Sep 2019

Darandio said:
This is one part I cannot understand, why they would advise you of a full refund if you caught a train 22 minutes later than planned.

If your train is cancelled and you decide not to travel, you are entitled to a full refund and not be charged any refund charges. This is for all ticket types. This will be what the ticket office staff will be referring to.

If you travel then you don't get any refund, but you may get compensation through Delay Repay if you are more than 15/30 minutes late.

RJ · 5 Sep 2019

It has happened to me a few times. Sometimes if the service data needs to be changed for whatever reason, someone in Control cancels one schedule which instantly shows as cancelled in all systems then input another for the same path which doesn't necessarily appear in a timely manner. However I can spot the signs of a dud cancellation from experience and try and piece together whats happening using Genius Mobile and the departure boards for the headcode. Other customers miss the train because the TOC does not update them in time or at all.

My advice would either be to try and encourage customer services to clarify what happened with someone who reads and understands the control logs, or forget about it and spend your precious time doing something else.

Baysdale · 2 Oct 2019

Update!
I received an e-mail apologising for the delay and agreeing that the trains were as I had stated. I was therefore due a 25% refund due to late running. In this case however, they are sending the full amount as a gesture of good will.
I of course am grateful but a little confused as the website which shows the actual running of trains did show a train running (late and unscheduled). To be honest we were beginning to doubt ourselves. The departures board definitely showed our train as cancelled and the next one scheduled over half a hour late. I don’t know if they were short of a driver and one suddenly turned up late or what.
Anyway, alls well that ends well although some of the responses from Northern did leave something to be desired.

WesternLancer · 2 Oct 2019

Glad to read it was concluded in a reasonable manner, as it were!

Train shown as cancelled

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