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New rail station at Faslane submarine base to be investigated

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och aye

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It could all be pie in the sky (and £817,000 of tax payers money down the tube!), but it will certainly interesting to see what comes out of the studies.

The one that caught my eye was the Leith down at Seafield. I was under the impression that line is very rarely used these days and given the de-industrialisation of the Port area, I didn't think there was much freight traffic down there.

Given all the development in Leith and the waterfront area, it would be interesting to see if there was any viability of extending the former Powderhall branch back to Trinity. But wait a minute... the trams will be back in that part of the world in the next few years, won't they! :lol:

A new railway station near the Faslane submarine base in Argyll will be explored to cut road traffic at Scotland’s biggest single site employer.

Funding was announced today for a feasibility study into transport improvements around the complex near Helensburgh, which is due to grow to 8,500 staff over the next five years.

One option is a rail station on the Glasgow-Mallaig West Highland Line, which runs close to HM Naval Base Clyde, home to the UK’s Trident nuclear-armed submarines.

The £85,000 study was among eight approved by transport secretary Michael Matheson under Transport Scotland’s local rail development fund.

The other schemes which will share funding of £817,000 are for possible improvements in Aberdeen, East Lothian, Leith, St Andrews, and park-and-ride sites between Perth and Montrose, including at stations.

Improving station access in Dunblane and Kirkconnel will also be explored.

The St Andrews cash is for further work on potentially re-opening the town’s rail line, which closed 50 years ago.

In Leith, the South East of Scotland Transport Partnership will examine whether some freight arriving by sea could be transported by rail from nearby Seafield rather than by lorry.

Frank Roach, of the Highlands and Islands Transport Partnership, which won the Faslane funding, said: “We are already working on Fastline Faslane: The Case for Change, along with our partners Argyll and Bute Council, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport and the Royal Navy, studying connectivity to the base, which is Scotland’s largest single employer site.

“It is scheduled to grow in the coming years with new vessel deployment and headquarters functions.”

He said the funding would enable preliminary and detailed options for a multi-modal transport appraisal into transport problems and opportunities at the base.

That would “examine how Ministry of Defence personnel and private sector contractors can access HMNB Clyde with minimum disruption to the local community, reducing reliance on the car”.

Mr Roach said the study would focus on the impact of 1,500 extra naval personnel at the site, which would increase the workforce to 8,500.

Any station site would have to have good pedestrian access to the base, so the location of a temporary halt used by prisoners of war in 1945 is unlikely.

Mr Matheson said: “We know the costs of transport appraisal can be a significant barrier, but they are a fundamental evidence-gathering step when considering transport issues and opportunities.

“The local rail development fund responds to this by providing practical help.”
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route:oxford

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och aye said:
It could all be pie in the sky (and £817,000 of tax payers money down the tube!), but it will certainly interesting to see what comes out of the studies.

The one that caught my eye was the Leith down at Seafield. I was under the impression that line is very rarely used these days and given the de-industrialisation of the Port area, I didn't think there was much freight traffic down there.

Given all the development in Leith and the waterfront area, it would be interesting to see if there was any viability of extending the former Powderhall branch back to Trinity. But wait a minute... the trams will be back in that part of the world in the next few years, won't they! :lol:
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Interesting piece. I'm a bit baffled by the:-

"Improving station access in Dunblane and Kirkconnel will also be explored."

Dunblane just had new fully accessible bridge with lifts built fairly recently. Is it a platform height issue?
 
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Meerkat

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A station right outside the gate should boost the numbers on anti-nuclear protests!
Fine having a station there but can the line accept the commuter shuttles that would presumably be needed?
 
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theironroad

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Any station at faslane which will need "good pedestrian access" as the article quotes will be a challenge considering the elevation of the line as it goes past the base. Not impossible of course, but a challenge. Also , does this mean they are going to run more frequent services for people to commute to and from work at the base? As the demand for any extra services north of faslane would be limited , I guess they would ned to turnaround at a new station, though I'm not sure how that would work with the radio token signalling.
 
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InOban

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I would assume that any trains would run on to Garelochead.
And that the station would be for authorised users only with security provided by the MOD.
There's a planning application in for a multistorey car park on the Faslane site.
( More people commute from Helensburgh to Faslane than to Glasgow.)
 
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RLBH

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InOban said:
And that the station would be for authorised users only with security provided by the MOD.
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Not sure why that should be the case - any station would have to be well outside the wire, in which case there'd be no need for it to have any kind of restricted access. Public roads separate the base from the railway at all points.

Unless of course someone wants to reopen the dockyard spur, in which case they need to be beaten over the head with the costing manual until they stop talking nonsense.
 
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InOban

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There's no reason why anyone else would want to use the station, and it could be linked to the base with a fenced-off path and a bridge over the public road.
 
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RLBH

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On the other hand, that would drive up costs for no particularly good reason. It's more likely to resemble Sellafield or IBM, which are/were open to the public but utterly useless to go anywhere other than the site they serve, than Lympstone Commando, which can only be accessed by rail or from the secure site. And even at Lympstone Commando, there's nothing actually stopping the public getting off the train, they just can't go anywhere until the next train calls.

An 'authorised users only' station such as you're suggesting wouldn't really have a precedent, but would be considerably more expensive than a platform on plain line (RETB area, so minimal signalling work) and a footpath.

Public use could of course be discouraged by not putting it in the public timetable, as was done for IBM, but that might just cause confusion.
 
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InOban

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If the MOD can afford to build a multistorey car park, they can afford a secure bridge over the A814.
 
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sprunt

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InOban said:
There's no reason why anyone else would want to use the station, and it could be linked to the base with a fenced-off path and a bridge over the public road.
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They might want to go for a walk around the area surrounding the base, they might want to go for a walk to Garelochhead, and in any case people shouldn't need to justify themselves to travel to a station on the national rail network.

If it were to be for base personnel only, it should be 100% funded by the MOD.
 
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Meerkat

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The MOD won’t want protesters having an easier way to get to the base.
As for 100% funding - the general public gain by a reduction in traffic
 
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Paul1804

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Strange seeing these replies to this subject. There used to be a station at the `Northgate when i first arrived in 79. The station is quickly reinstated, and it will be still outside the gate. only a selected number of Fort William trains stopped there . The ability to get a train from Glasgow to Faslane would reduce a lot of traffic all the way from Glasgow to the area
 
AlbertBeale

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RLBH said:
On the other hand, that would drive up costs for no particularly good reason. It's more likely to resemble Sellafield or IBM, which are/were open to the public but utterly useless to go anywhere other than the site they serve, than Lympstone Commando, which can only be accessed by rail or from the secure site. And even at Lympstone Commando, there's nothing actually stopping the public getting off the train, they just can't go anywhere until the next train calls.

An 'authorised users only' station such as you're suggesting wouldn't really have a precedent, but would be considerably more expensive than a platform on plain line (RETB area, so minimal signalling work) and a footpath.

Public use could of course be discouraged by not putting it in the public timetable, as was done for IBM, but that might just cause confusion.
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When I last went on the train through Lympstone Commando station, there were indeed lots of fences and gates, and signs saying you could only get off for access to the barracks. However, that's obviously an MoD try-on ... there's a public footpath and cyclepath running along between the station and the base; anyone wanting to do part of the route by train and part on foot or by bike, and to make the switch there, has the obvious right to do. It would be enough to make me an anti-militarist if I wasn't one already....
 
paul1609

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The plan is to reopen Shandon station on the West highland Line https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/S/Shandon/, I suspect it would be outside the base security and that a new entrance and security clearance would be provided in the licensed nuclear site.
Currently civilian workers are bussed in in an impressive fleet of coaches from an area thats wider than you might imagine but I'm not at liberty to reveal, Id guess that its not the non starter you might imagine and what you might be looking at is a mix of calls on the West Highland trains and special charters.
 
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InOban

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It is indeed an impressive fleet of coaches - I've met them on the A82. Even a small fraction of this traffic would probably dwarf all other passenger flows on the WHL.
 
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Class 170101

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sprunt said:
If it were to be for base personnel only, it should be 100% funded by the MOD.
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Just taxpayers money by another name I'm afraid.

If you were going to a regular service there It would probablty have to be the Springburn trains extended from Dumbarton Central along with electrification as I doubt the line to Oban / Malliag warrant an hourly service between them - nevermind the infrastructure being available to support it.
 
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fairliered

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Would there be enough demand for a regular service starting at Arrochar and calling at Garelochhead, Faslane, Helensburgh Upper, Craigendoran, Dumbarton Central, Dalmuir, Clydebank, Hyndland, Partick, Glasgow Central Low Level and maybe terminating at Newton. It would provide a regular service to Glasgow from areas with a currently limited service and a link to Glasgow Central from the North Clyde area without having to change at Partick.
 
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InOban

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Class 170101 said:
Just taxpayers money by another name I'm afraid.

If you were going to a regular service there It would probablty have to be the Springburn trains extended from Dumbarton Central along with electrification as I doubt the line to Oban / Malliag warrant an hourly service between them - nevermind the infrastructure being available to support it.
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But it would be UK taxpayers money, rather than just Scottish taxpayers.
 
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InOban said:
But it would be UK taxpayers money, rather than just Scottish taxpayers.
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True but the thing to bear in mind is that Nicola Sturgeon wants the nuclear subs out of Scotland. Can't see this station ever happening if Brexit leading to independence happens to be honest.
 
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theironroad

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Class 170101 said:
True but the thing to bear in mind is that Nicola Sturgeon wants the nuclear subs out of Scotland. Can't see this station ever happening if Brexit leading to independence happens to be honest.
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Who knows , maybe more likely. Let's not forget that Faslane will become the home for the Scottish Defence Forces if indy goes ahead.
 
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InOban

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She certainly wants rid of Trident, but the enlargement of Faslane is because it is now the home of the Astute class, which is nuclear powered but not nuclear armed - they have torpedoes and cruise missiles.
 
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theironroad

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Class 170101 said:
True but the thing to bear in mind is that Nicola Sturgeon wants the nuclear subs out of Scotland. Can't see this station ever happening if Brexit leading to independence happens to be honest.
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InOban said:
She certainly wants rid of Trident, but the enlargement of Faslane is because it is now the home of the Astute class, which is nuclear powered but not nuclear armed - they have torpedoes and cruise missiles.
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Well it's SNP party policy to have a nuclear weapons free Scotland, not just Sturgeon's.
 
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JamesT

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InOban said:
She certainly wants rid of Trident, but the enlargement of Faslane is because it is now the home of the Astute class, which is nuclear powered but not nuclear armed - they have torpedoes and cruise missiles.
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The SNP also have a policy of no new nuclear power.
I wouldn’t expect an independent Scotland to keep any of the submarines once an alternative base was found by rUK.
 
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NotATrainspott

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The 2043 Route Study suggested a 1tph service to Crianlarich split evenly between Oban and Fort William. Once you're at 1tph it'll be much more feasible to build stations on the southern end of the WHL for commuting purposes. The EMU service to Helensburgh Central is 2tph.
 
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Meerkat

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If there are 9,000 people working at Faslane, presumably in shifts, any WHL services are going to be overwhelmed, and an hourly train won’t be convenient enough to be tempting will it?

How does it compare to Sellafield in numbers and services terms?
 
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theironroad

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JamesT said:
The SNP also have a policy of no new nuclear power.
I wouldn’t expect an independent Scotland to keep any of the submarines once an alternative base was found by rUK.
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Thanks.

Must admit ,couldnt remember when I posted if it was just weapons or nuclear power as well.
 
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theironroad

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Meerkat said:
If there are 9,000 people working at Faslane, presumably in shifts, any WHL services are going to be overwhelmed, and an hourly train won’t be convenient enough to be tempting will it?

How does it compare to Sellafield in numbers and services terms?
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Is that 9000 people working at the base all people who live off-site?

I'd imagine that a large amount of the RN staff live onsite, whereas it's civilian staff living off site.
 
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InOban

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If you look at the site on Google maps you will see that there is little or no onsite accommodation. A few may live in Garelochead. And anyway the vast majority of employees are civilians, who as another poster has said, are bused in from the whole of greater Glasgow. A train service would suit a small although significant proportion.
 
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Noddy

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InOban said:
If you look at the site on Google maps you will see that there is little or no onsite accommodation.
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There’s some pretty large blocks of what look like flats (5 or 6 storey? and lots of them-visible on Google Maps too) towards the southern end of the base, clearly visible as you drive past!
 
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theironroad

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InOban said:
If you look at the site on Google maps you will see that there is little or no onsite accommodation. A few may live in Garelochead. And anyway the vast majority of employees are civilians, who as another poster has said, are bused in from the whole of greater Glasgow. A train service would suit a small although significant proportion.
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I'm sure the last few years has seen a big building programme for new, modern individual rooms for all RN personnel on base. Sure some RN live off base ,but I'd agree that civvy staff live in Glasgow areas .
 
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