Cambridge to London, super off peak

island · 30 Aug 2019

Today I discovered that there are two different super off-peak day return tickets from Cambridge to London Terminals with no route restriction (formerly ANY PERMITTED). They both look much the same, but one (CBA) is £17.80 and for travel only on Saturdays, Sundays, and public holidays (FB), whilst the other (PDR) is £25.40 and valid on weekdays to arrive at London terminals after 1055 and to return after 1055 but not between 1630-1901. (A marginally more expensive off peak day return for £26.20 is valid to arrive at London terminals at or after 1000 and return any time, and other GREATER ANG ONLY tickets exist.)

How can it be even the least bit reasonable to have two tickets with the same name and different rules?

RailUK Forums

James H · 30 Aug 2019

There are quite a few routes with cheaper Super Off Peak fares at weekends

Joe Paxton · 30 Aug 2019

Potentially confusing, yes, but this is not new.

alistairlees · 30 Aug 2019

It would help if the weekend ticket was actually called a Weekend Day Return (or similar).

Hadders · 30 Aug 2019

GTR changed their fares structure on the GN side in January 2019:

Previously we generally had:
Anytime Day Return
Off Peak Day Return (with evening restrictions)
Off Peak Return (with evening restrictions)
Super Off Peak Day Return (weekends only)

We now have:
Anytime Day Return
Off Peak Day Return (no evening restrictions) - more expensive than the old Off Peak Day Return
Off Peak Return (with evening restrictions)
Super Off Peak Day Return (weekdays with evening restrictions) - basically the former Off Peak Day Return
Super Off Peak Day Return (weekends only)

This change actually benefits passengers although it introduces a further ticket. If fares are simplified which fare would you like to see abolished?

island · 30 Aug 2019

The super off peak day return valid only on weekends should be renamed to weekend day return or similar. At the moment the only way of telling the two super off peak day returns apart is the price and restriction code, so it’s easy for a passenger to be issued the more expensive one on a weekend and be left out of pocket, or the cheaper one on a weekday and end up with an excess or worse.

Hadders · 30 Aug 2019

island said:
The super off peak day return valid only on weekends should be renamed to weekend day return or similar. At the moment the only way of telling the two super off peak day returns apart is the price and restriction code, so it’s easy for a passenger to be issued the more expensive one on a weekend and be left out of pocket, or the cheaper one on a weekday and end up with an excess or worse.

I don't disagree with this although under the 2008 simplification only Advance, Anytime, Off Peak and Super Off Peak names can be used. There is a need to make sure loads of different names end up being introduced.

RJ · 30 Aug 2019

alistairlees said:
It would help if the weekend ticket was actually called a Weekend Day Return (or similar).

island said:
The super off peak day return valid only on weekends should be renamed to weekend day return or similar.

It's also valid on Bank Holidays - if you do that then there'll be people on here complaining that people get ripped off buying unnecessarily more expensive tickets 6 or 7 days a year.

If you buy from a ticket office, input your journey details into a booking engine and buy from there or read the restrictions on the TVM and compare products then you should end up with the correct ticket.

If you make life hard for yourself by trying to memorise the T&Cs of every ticket type and restriction code out there then not reading up on what you're buying then there's a higher risk of doing yourself out of a good deal.

island · 30 Aug 2019

Hadders said:
I don't disagree with this although under the 2008 simplification only Advance, Anytime, Off Peak and Super Off Peak names can be used. There is a need to make sure loads of different names end up being introduced.

You’d better tell that to South Western Railway who have a W SUP OFFPK DAYR ticket type.

Haywain · 31 Aug 2019

island said:
or the cheaper one on a weekday and end up with an excess or worse.

I don’t believe you can buy the cheaper one on a weekday as the fares data is set up to prevent that from happening. However, the same really should happen for the more expensive ticket, and the Off Peak and Anytime tickets at weekends.

MikeWM · 31 Aug 2019

island said:
You’d better tell that to South Western Railway who have a W SUP OFFPK DAYR ticket type.

As do GA for the Cambridge London route. Unfortunately, while good value, the Travelcard version (at least) hasn’t opened a single NR barrier in the 15 months I’ve been using these. You’d think they may at least have reprogrammed Cambridge and Liverpool Street to accept them, but no. (LUL gates are happy with them)

MikeWM · 31 Aug 2019

Haywain said:
I don’t believe you can buy the cheaper one on a weekday as the fares data is set up to prevent that from happening. However, the same really should happen for the more expensive ticket, and the Off Peak and Anytime tickets at weekends.

Indeed. I accidentally bought an off peak GA only rather than a super off peak any permitted from a TVM a couple of weeks back - the prices are very similar and I was half asleep!

Happily Cambridge ticket office were good about refunding and reissuing, but really the GA off peak shouldn’t be an option at all at weekends as it offers nothing other than a higher price over the ‘weekend’ super off peak.

Haywain · 31 Aug 2019

MikeWM said:
Happily Cambridge ticket office were good about refunding and reissuing, but really the GA off peak shouldn’t be an option at all at weekends as it offers nothing other than a higher price over the ‘weekend’ super off peak.

But if they withdrew the GA only ticket at weekends that would suggest collusion which is not allowed.

MikeWM · 31 Aug 2019

Haywain said:
But if they withdrew the GA only ticket at weekends that would suggest collusion which is not allowed.

There’s a weekend super off peak GA only (the one I’m sort-of moaning about in post #11). Indeed I’m travelling on one as I type.

This has exactly the same validity as the regular off peak GA only one, except it costs more. So why offer the regular off peak one on the TVM at all at a weekend?

kieron · 2 Sep 2019

RJ said:
If you make life hard for yourself by trying to memorise the T&Cs of every ticket type and restriction code out there then not reading up on what you're buying then there's a higher risk of doing yourself out of a good deal.

The other way of looking at this is that, if you buy from a ticket machine, you are at more risk of being a victim of GTR's confusing pricing policy.

There are a number of ways GTR could respond to this issue. Ignoring it until they receive more passenger complaints or press attention seems like the easiest option to me. Training their passengers to spend longer looking at the tickets on offer at a TVM to ensure they get the right "super off peak return", by contrast, seems like one of the slower and more expensive ones.

Ianno87 · 2 Sep 2019

MikeWM said:
There’s a weekend super off peak GA only (the one I’m sort-of moaning about in post #11). Indeed I’m travelling on one as I type.

This has exactly the same validity as the regular off peak GA only one, except it costs more. So why offer the regular off peak one on the TVM at all at a weekend?

No, the GA Weekend Super Off Peak is not valid for break of journey.

arb · 3 Sep 2019

Ianno87 said:
No, the GA Weekend Super Off Peak is not valid for break of journey.

According to National Rail Enquiries, a break of journey is allowed on these tickets.

Search for a Cambridge to Liverpool Street return on Saturday, make sure the £13 fare is selected, click on the link for "1 x Adult - Super Off-Peak Day Return" at the bottom of the page. It takes you to a page about the ticket type (SO2) which says "A break of journey is permitted on the (outward, return) portion off an (sic) Super Off-Peak Day Return unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's Restriction Code". And clicking the link to the restriction code (FA) says nothing either way about break of journey.

On the other hand, BRFares says that break of journey is not allowed on the SO2 ticket code, but, as people are fond of saying here, that's an unofficial source.

MikeWM · 3 Sep 2019

Ianno87 said:
No, the GA Weekend Super Off Peak is not valid for break of journey.

Nor is the regular GA-only Off Peak Travelcard (£25.20), at least according to brfares. So I still see no circumstance where I would want to buy that at a weekend.

Clip · 3 Sep 2019

arb said:
According to National Rail Enquiries, a break of journey is allowed on these tickets.

Search for a Cambridge to Liverpool Street return on Saturday, make sure the £13 fare is selected, click on the link for "1 x Adult - Super Off-Peak Day Return" at the bottom of the page. It takes you to a page about the ticket type (SO2) which says "A break of journey is permitted on the (outward, return) portion off an (sic) Super Off-Peak Day Return unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's Restriction Code". And clicking the link to the restriction code (FA) says nothing either way about break of journey.

On the other hand, BRFares says that break of journey is not allowed on the SO2 ticket code, but, as people are fond of saying here, that's an unofficial source.

Thats not the same ticket as the GA Weekend super off peak

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CBG&dest=LST&grpd=0035&rte=20&tkt=SO0

VALIDITY
Outward Validity: ON DATE SHOWN
Break of journey is not permitted
Return Validity: ON DATE SHOWN
Break of journey is not permitted

arb · 3 Sep 2019

SO0 and SO2 is the difference between a GA only weekend super-off peak day travelcard, and a GA only weekend super off-peak day return to London Terminals.

The NRE page for SO0 also says that break of journey is allowed, just like SO2.

Cambridge to London, super off peak

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