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Significant Depots That Have Closed

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RichmondCommu

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Hi everyone,

I thought we could perhaps use this thread to decide which depot has been the most significant loss.

I'm not going to go for the most obvious one's and so have come up with Reddish. With its 25 ton capacity crane it did a lot of sub contract work for Crewe in addition to maintenance of it's own fleet of 76s.

The depot is of course long gone but I have often thought that it would have been a useful base for TPE if the Gorton to Old Trafford line had survived.

Over to you and thanks for reading.
 
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Taunton

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You may laugh, but when I grew up in Taunton the railway was the No 1 employer in the town, over 10% of all employment. Loco depot, but there were far more crews than locos allocated, as a lot of main line remanning took place. Everyone at the station, all the signalboxes, then there was the PW yard and the railway concrete works that was the GWR/WR (and sometimes beyond) precast concrete factory.

Rail staff occupied much of the housing north of the railway, which was a virtual railway village, a notable concentration in quite a well-developed medium-sized country town.

Nowadays it seems public services, the council etc, are No 1 employer. Railway virtually nothing now.
 

delt1c

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How about Stratford, was a major works and depot now gone
 

midland1

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What about just done the road from Taunton Newton Abbot, I do not live in the west country but I always thought of it as a railway town.
 

xotGD

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Naturally, I'll say Gateshead.

Finsbury Park also worth a mention.
 

70014IronDuke

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It's a very open-ended question. Don't you want to put a time limit on it?

Otherwise, in absolute terms, Stratford must be in with a big shout. I think it had some vast allocation in the late 1950s, something like 500? locomotives?

but in relative terms, for places like Woodford Halse - popn was probably never more than 400 - closure of the depot was surely pretty devastating socially.

I'd guess some of the unglamorous sheds in Scotland were also huge for their local populations - say Thornton Junction (62A), and some of the Valleys' sheds in S Wales, stuffed with 56xx 0-6-2Ts, 57xx 0-6-0PTs and big grunt tanks like 72xx.

Then you had March. Oh my, what a railway centre for such a non-descript tiny town on the edge of East Anglia. Massive marshalling yard, massive depot. I'd wager that must trump Taunton's Taunton in terms of local employment centre by a country (including any Somerset) mile :)
 

RichmondCommu

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It's a very open-ended question. Don't you want to put a time limit on it?

Otherwise, in absolute terms, Stratford must be in with a big shout. I think it had some vast allocation in the late 1950s, something like 500? locomotives?
Many thanks for such a detailed response. I decided to widen the scope of the thread in order to attract as many responses as possible!

I always treated Stratford as a single entity and so see it as probably the most significant loss as it could do pretty much everything in addition to the size of it's allocation.
 

bramling

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Hi everyone,

I thought we could perhaps use this thread to decide which depot has been the most significant loss.

I'm not going to go for the most obvious one's and so have come up with Reddish. With its 25 ton capacity crane it did a lot of sub contract work for Crewe in addition to maintenance of it's own fleet of 76s.

The depot is of course long gone but I have often thought that it would have been a useful base for TPE if the Gorton to Old Trafford line had survived.

Over to you and thanks for reading.

These won’t win any awards for being most significant, but two spring to mind on the Underground. White City Depot which was the original depot for the Central London Railway, reduced in status over the years and eventually closed altogether to allow the site to be redeveloped for the Westfield shopping centre. Also Stockwell Depot was the original depot for the City & South London Railway, the predecessor of part of today’s Northern Line. Closed in 1924 and now a council estate, although there remain a couple of railway features and to be found on site, as well as numerous relics below ground at tunnel level. The first of these depots was quite large in its day, and both had their own power stations.
 

70014IronDuke

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Many thanks for such a detailed response. I decided to widen the scope of the thread in order to attract as many responses as possible!

I always treated Stratford as a single entity and so see it as probably the most significant loss as it could do pretty much everything in addition to the size of it's allocation.

Well, these were just my thoughts as they came to me. I forgot to mention the huge number of sheds in the Lancashire and Yorkshire areas (although Springs Branch has spoken up for his own MPD). I really didn't get to those areas until the later part of the 60s, so it's difficult to gauge how big they were say, c 1960. Again, there were 'glory' depots like Edge Hill, Longsight and Holbeck (I say glory because they were the A shed and had an allocation of named, express passenger locos), but I have no idea how large the 'less glamorous' ones were, say, Warrington Dallam or Wakefield (even though I did 'do' the latter in 1965 on a shed bashing weekend - but it was all something of a WD-filled blur).

One shed which struck me as huge when I actually went there was Oxley (GWR, Wolverhampton). I did it in 1965, well into diesel days, but I remember marvelling at what I might have seen five years earlier.

But nothing could have prepared me for March in, I think, Easter or Summer 1961. This tiny little town, which even today (almost) nobody knows west of Peterborough, south of Cambridge or north of Spalding, seemed to have locomotives spread over a vast area of about one square mile. Diesels had taken most of the GE workings when I was there, but there were still (as I recall) old GE J15 and J17 0-6-0s dumped in lines, B1s in steam and there seemed to be a surfeit of Britannias chugging around with little to do, having been displaced (I presumed later) off the Norwich expresses and not yet transferred to the LM. There were also - I don't know - perhaps 30-40 'foreign' steam, presumably having worked in from the GN and LMR. It was truly awe inspiring to me as a nine- or perhaps 10-year old.

Stratford is interesting because, as far as I can tell, it was an 'all-in-one' facility. That is to say, many of the lines out of London had two sheds, eg Kings X and Hornsey, Camden and Willesden, Kentish Town and Cricklewood. From what I gather, when in their prime, the former of the pair was the passenger shed, the latter had mainly freight diagrams. I presume this was due to a more or less accident of history, ie (say) the London and Birmingham opened Camden, close to the terminus, first, but as traffic grew, needed another depot. Because of land shortage/prices (and possibly being closer to goods yards), the second depot was built further from the terminus and 'relegated' to freight duties.

But the GE combined both functions, and a works, at Stratford. (Similarly, minus the works - Old Oak on the GWR.) BICBW - I'm sure someone will be along soon to correct me on any misuderstandings I have here!

I feel this analysis only really works for London. I've never worked out the difference in roles between eg Heaton and Gateshead, Haymarket and St Margarets, or the mass of Glasgow sheds (Dalry Road, anyone?).
 

Peter C

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Is Old Oak Common considered to be valid here? I mean, it still exists, I think, but for Crossrail?

-Peter
 

306024

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Used to be told frequently that Stratford was once the biggest depot in Western Europe. Quite when that was, and quite how you define biggest is not known but it was huge. Now all that's left is a plaque in Stratford International station, which I often stop at to reminisce.

March too was huge for the area, with a fascinating variety of motive power. A proper railway town in those days.
 
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Crewe Exile

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I guess I’m biased but the closure of Crewe Diesel depot is hugely significant. I’m not as much into the railways as I used to be but it’s horrible to see the decline of the railways in Crewe. It is not exaggeration to say that if you resides in Crewe in years gone by you would know at least several people who worked on the railways.
I realise that there are small depots that are present in Crewe now but they don’t appear anywhere near the scale as the old diesel depot.
I guess there are so many examples depots no longer in existence, they simply aren’t needed anymore. I used to love travelling along the North Wales Coast, Llandudno Junction, with all the locos stabled up if you went past early doors, great memories. I’ll stop rambling on now!.
 

Peter C

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Would Swindon count? They made and maintained engines for many, many years.

-Peter
 

mailbyrail

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What about Melton Constable?
Used to be the major works and HQ for the whole M&GN now it's a preserved railway terminus almost inaccessible from the national railway network except for the very few occasions when Sheringham crossing can be used.
 

mailbyrail

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whoops - I've conflated Holt and Melton Constable - there's nothing there now at all and the nearest tracks are in Holt
 

306024

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What about Melton Constable?
Used to be the major works and HQ for the whole M&GN now it's a preserved railway terminus almost inaccessible from the national railway network except for the very few occasions when Sheringham crossing can be used.

It's more inaccessible than that. Barely a trace, mostly an industrial estate.
 

Aictos

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Well, these were just my thoughts as they came to me. I forgot to mention the huge number of sheds in the Lancashire and Yorkshire areas (although Springs Branch has spoken up for his own MPD). I really didn't get to those areas until the later part of the 60s, so it's difficult to gauge how big they were say, c 1960. Again, there were 'glory' depots like Edge Hill, Longsight and Holbeck (I say glory because they were the A shed and had an allocation of named, express passenger locos), but I have no idea how large the 'less glamorous' ones were, say, Warrington Dallam or Wakefield (even though I did 'do' the latter in 1965 on a shed bashing weekend - but it was all something of a WD-filled blur).

One shed which struck me as huge when I actually went there was Oxley (GWR, Wolverhampton). I did it in 1965, well into diesel days, but I remember marvelling at what I might have seen five years earlier.

But nothing could have prepared me for March in, I think, Easter or Summer 1961. This tiny little town, which even today (almost) nobody knows west of Peterborough, south of Cambridge or north of Spalding, seemed to have locomotives spread over a vast area of about one square mile. Diesels had taken most of the GE workings when I was there, but there were still (as I recall) old GE J15 and J17 0-6-0s dumped in lines, B1s in steam and there seemed to be a surfeit of Britannias chugging around with little to do, having been displaced (I presumed later) off the Norwich expresses and not yet transferred to the LM. There were also - I don't know - perhaps 30-40 'foreign' steam, presumably having worked in from the GN and LMR. It was truly awe inspiring to me as a nine- or perhaps 10-year old.

Stratford is interesting because, as far as I can tell, it was an 'all-in-one' facility. That is to say, many of the lines out of London had two sheds, eg Kings X and Hornsey, Camden and Willesden, Kentish Town and Cricklewood. From what I gather, when in their prime, the former of the pair was the passenger shed, the latter had mainly freight diagrams. I presume this was due to a more or less accident of history, ie (say) the London and Birmingham opened Camden, close to the terminus, first, but as traffic grew, needed another depot. Because of land shortage/prices (and possibly being closer to goods yards), the second depot was built further from the terminus and 'relegated' to freight duties.

But the GE combined both functions, and a works, at Stratford. (Similarly, minus the works - Old Oak on the GWR.) BICBW - I'm sure someone will be along soon to correct me on any misuderstandings I have here!

I feel this analysis only really works for London. I've never worked out the difference in roles between eg Heaton and Gateshead, Haymarket and St Margarets, or the mass of Glasgow sheds (Dalry Road, anyone?).

Just to point out but your geography is a tad suspect... March is SOUTH of Spalding and NORTH of Cambridge.
 

306024

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March is also East of Peterborough but as I read it, it is people outside that geographical boundary that the Iron Duke is referring to that won't have heard of March, not the location of March itself.
 

Bevan Price

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At the start of BR in 1948, Stratford (30A) had a nominal allocation of 383 steam locos, although some of these usually "lived" at sub-sheds at the end of suburban branch lines.
Other large steam depots (100+ steam locos) were:

Eastern Region:
March (31B) 161
Norwich (32A) 130
Kings Cross (34A) 160
New England (Peterborough) (35A) 213
Doncaster (36A) 180
Mexborough (36B) 119
Colwick (Nottingham) (38A) 199
Gorton (Manchester) (39A) 166

London Midland Region:
Willesden Junction (London) (1A) 135
Crewe South (5B) 103
Stoke On Trent (5D) 100
Edge Hill (Liverpool) (8A) 112
Longsight (Manchester) (9A) 129
Carlisle Upperby (12A) 103
Kentish Town (London) (14B) 117
Nottingham (16A) 144
Derby (17A) 138
Burton Upon Trent (17B) 108
Toton (18A) 155
Saltley (Birmingham) (21A) 180
Wakefield (25A) 122
Newton Heath (Manchester) (26A) 154

North Eastern Region:
York (50A) 174
Darlington (51A) 112
Heaton (Newcastle) (52B) 119
Dairycoates (Hull) (53A) 145

Scottish Region:
Thornton Junction (62A) 113
Perth (63A) 138
St. Margarets (Edinburgh) (64B) 221
Eastfield (Glasgow) (65A) 164
Polmadie (Glasgow) (66A) 166
Motherwell (66B) 116
Kingmoor (Carlisle) (68A) 142

Southern Region:
Eastleigh (71A) 111
Exmouth Junction (72A) 123
Stewarts Lane (London) (73A) 112
Bricklayers Arms (London) (73B) 140
London depots were probably much larger prior to suburban electrification.

Western Region:
Old Oak Common (London) (81A) 193
Bristol Bath Road (82A) 100
St. Phillips Marsh (Bristol) (82B) 141
Swindon (82C) 125
Laira (Plymouth) (83D) 108
Tyseley (Birmingham) (84E) 118
Shrewsbury (84G) 120
Ebbw Junction (Newport) (86A) 141
Cardiff Canton (86C) 105


Data from Paul Bolger's "BR Steam Motive Power Depots"

Most totals date from 1950 rather than 1948.
Note also that the shed code numbers changed, sometimes more than once, until the end of steam in 1968.
Also, some sheds were transferred between regions, e.g. Kingmoor moved into London Midland Region.
 
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ac6000cw

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March is also East of Peterborough but as I read it, it is people outside that geographical boundary that the Iron Duke is referring to that won't have heard of March, not the location of March itself.
...and if they have heard of it, it will be because of the modern prison there, not the railway...

Most of the depots of old were inevitably doomed when diesel and electric traction replaced steam (which needed a small army of people to service it) and freight traffic declined. That's why most of the major 'freight' depots that were attached to major sorting yards have gone - they were in the wrong place for current traffic flows. Modern locos have bigger fuel tanks and are more reliable/need less maintenance, so small single-road inspection/light maintenance sheds and 'man-in-van' roving fitters/technicians are all the FOC's seem to need these days. Anything beyond that can be contracted out to Progress Rail etc. if necessary.
 

Dr_Paul

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I've just looked up March in the NLS collection: amazing! I didn't realise the yards were so extensive. This 6" map from the late 1950s gives pretty much all of it, except the connections to the line to Spalding.
 

Ash Bridge

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I guess I’m biased but the closure of Crewe Diesel depot is hugely significant. I’m not as much into the railways as I used to be but it’s horrible to see the decline of the railways in Crewe. It is not exaggeration to say that if you resides in Crewe in years gone by you would know at least several people who worked on the railways.
I realise that there are small depots that are present in Crewe now but they don’t appear anywhere near the scale as the old diesel depot.
I guess there are so many examples depots no longer in existence, they simply aren’t needed anymore. I used to love travelling along the North Wales Coast, Llandudno Junction, with all the locos stabled up if you went past early doors, great memories. I’ll stop rambling on now!.

Don't get me wrong as I do appreciate your point about modern day Crewe; but at least the former diesel depot has sort of risen from the ashes in recent times so we should really be grateful for that. Also its nice to think its also home to several active Brush 47s just like it used to be, albeit mingling with the now also resident kettles. :)
 
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