Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

Siemens Trains · 16 Jun 2019

marks87 said:
Joke, right?

Yes, only joking - apologies if you thought it was a serious concern.
I certainly wouldn't want to belittle the efforts involved in opening up the new platforms and introducing the ticket gates, which I know takes a huge amount of coordination and forward thinking. The same goes for introduction of new trains on GWR and LNER routes. It really is awful if there have been incidents of people climbing up on cables between carriages and I fully understand how difficult it can be to plan for every conceivable issue.

RailUK Forums

edwin_m · 16 Jun 2019

najaB said:
If there's a 500 tonne train where it shouldn't be I doubt that a 50g bolt is going to be a major concern!

If the friction buffers do what they are intended to do, stopping the 500 tonne train safely, then it's possible they could put tension in the fence which causes the end of the frangible bolt to ping off like a bullet. Not very likely I grant you, but possible.

InOban · 16 Jun 2019

This seems like a clear case of an error on measurement or manufacture. The short section simply needs to abut the section behind the stops, doesn't need to be attached.

385001 · 28 Jun 2019

No more gap

AngusH · 29 Jun 2019

The flowers are a nice addition, I haven't seen them before at Edinburgh.

Well done to whoever is organising them.

InOban · 29 Jun 2019

As I suggested, although there is no longer a gap, the sections aren't joined, so in the case of a buffer stop incident, there would be no damage to the new fence.

och aye · 29 Aug 2019

Vital track upgrades for Calton Tunnel

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/vital-track-upgrades-for-calton-tunnel-1

Engineers will be renewing the track through a key Edinburgh rail tunnel next month in a £1m investment in Scotland’s railway.

The Calton south tunnel, to the east of Edinburgh’s Waverley station, will be closed on Saturday, September 14, and Sunday, September 15, before reopening for customers at the start of service on Monday, September 16.

Engineers will be working around-the-clock to replace life-expired rails, sleepers and ballast in the tunnel, which connects Waverley to the East Coast Mainline (ECML).

In addition to the Calton tunnel works, Network Rail will also be renewing track, signalling and drainage at several locations on the ECML between Drem and Dunbar over the same weekend.

These engineering works cannot be delivered without some short-term disruption to journeys through Edinburgh Waverley, including to some services to the west of the city.

Passengers are being urged to check National Rail Enquiries, or with their individual train operator, to see how their plans may be affected.

Liam Sumpter, Network Rail Scotland Route Director, said: “Our engineers will be working hard throughout the weekend to complete these vital upgrades – which will help to deliver a more reliable service for passengers on the East Coast Mainline.

“We understand the inconvenience this work will cause to some customers, but such a significant investment cannot be delivered without temporary disruption to services and every effort has been made to reduce the impact of our activities as much as possible.”

InOban · 29 Aug 2019

So the only access will be through the North tunnel? Fortunately the new platforms 5&6 only have access that way. I wonder if the relayed tracks will include additional points to give more flexible routing.
But there will no access from the East to 8&9 (the Sub)

221129 · 29 Aug 2019

InOban said:
So the only access will be through the North tunnel? Fortunately the new platforms 5&6 only have access that way. I wonder if the relayed tracks will include additional points to give more flexible routing.
But there will no access from the East to 8&9 (the Sub)

Doesn't matter as there will be no trains heading south!

EdinburghTrain · 1 Sep 2019

Am I correct in thinking that both of the Calton tunnels are single track?
I saw a post earlier in this thread hinting that one tunnel might be double tracked (CP6?), could both tunnels handle double tracking? Presumably there'd be a benefit in doing it (resilience, etc).

Presumably these upcoming works are purely signal and track replacement and not double tracking?

Altnabreac · 1 Sep 2019

EdinburghTrain said:
Am I correct in thinking that both of the Calton tunnels are single track?
I saw a post earlier in this thread hinting that one tunnel might be double tracked (CP6?), could both tunnels handle double tracking? Presumably there'd be a benefit in doing it (resilience, etc).

Presumably these upcoming works are purely signal and track replacement and not double tracking?

As I understand it Calton South tunnel is pretty much impossible to double track at current gauge, you’d have to open it right out which then creates World Heritage view issues so is challenging to get permissions for.

Calton North is easier and can be done by track lowering / small amount of reprofiling but I get the impression it’s more like an 8 week closure job than a weekend job.

route:oxford · 1 Sep 2019

Altnabreac said:
As I understand it Calton South tunnel is pretty much impossible to double track at current gauge, you’d have to open it right out which then creates World Heritage view issues so is challenging to get permissions for.

Calton North is easier and can be done by track lowering / small amount of reprofiling but I get the impression it’s more like an 8 week closure job than a weekend job.

Surely as long as the outcome is that portals look essentially the same it shouldn't make much difference to the WHS?

There's a big block of white rendered council flats to hide most of any changes to the South tunnel anyway:-

The_railway_tunnels_under_Calton_Hill_and_the_Royal_High_School%2C_Edinburgh.jpg

Scotrail84 · 1 Sep 2019

Altnabreac said:
As I understand it Calton South tunnel is pretty much impossible to double track at current gauge, you’d have to open it right out which then creates World Heritage view issues so is challenging to get permissions for.

Calton North is easier and can be done by track lowering / small amount of reprofiling but I get the impression it’s more like an 8 week closure job than a weekend job.

Both tunnels used to be double track. Redoubling is a big job but really not that difficult. Inside the South tunnel about halfway down they've put like a plastic cladding which the overhead masts are attached to. Just remove that then realign the track and remodel station throat. North tunnel much easier to double.

Aictos · 1 Sep 2019

What’s the plastic cladding for in said tunnel?

Altnabreac · 1 Sep 2019

Scotrail84 said:
Both tunnels used to be double track. Redoubling is a big job but really not that difficult. Inside the South tunnel about halfway down they've put like a plastic cladding which the overhead masts are attached to. Just remove that then realign the track and remodel station throat. North tunnel much easier to double.

Just what I was told by someone from NR that the south tunnel is a real challenge to double while maintaining gauge clearance without enlarging the bore.

And enlarging the bore in the south tunnel is problematic as it potentially destabilises the whole side of the hill.

marks87 · 1 Sep 2019

Altnabreac said:
As I understand it Calton South tunnel is pretty much impossible to double track at current gauge, you’d have to open it right out which then creates World Heritage view issues so is challenging to get permissions for.

Calton North is easier and can be done by track lowering / small amount of reprofiling but I get the impression it’s more like an 8 week closure job than a weekend job.

What impact would there be on the existing timetable with Calton North out of action?

If it were to come onto the agenda, could the Sub be used to mitigate, especially if most/all LNER services will be bi-modes in the not too distance future?

najaB · 1 Sep 2019

marks87 said:
If it were to come onto the agenda, could the Sub be used to mitigate, especially if most/all LNER services will be bi-modes in the not too distance future?

There's precedent. As you likely know, the Sub was used when the Haymarket tunnels were out of action for electrification works.

route:oxford · 1 Sep 2019

najaB said:
There's precedent. As you likely know, the Sub was used when the Haymarket tunnels were out of action for electrification works.

That precedent was set back in the olden days though. There were considerably fewer services going through the Haymarket tunnels in the late 1980/early 1990s.

To avoid wasting paths...

Should the Inverness & Aberdeen services be routed round the sub without calling at Haymarket or Edinburgh? Instead calling at Edinburgh Park & Edinburgh Gateway for connecting services?

221129 · 2 Sep 2019

marks87 said:
What impact would there be on the existing timetable with Calton North out of action?

If it were to come onto the agenda, could the Sub be used to mitigate, especially if most/all LNER services will be bi-modes in the not too distance future?

Nothing south out of Edinburgh for these upcoming works.

221129 · 2 Sep 2019

marks87 said:
What impact would there be on the existing timetable with Calton North out of action?

If it were to come onto the agenda, could the Sub be used to mitigate, especially if most/all LNER services will be bi-modes in the not too distance future?

Afaik there is no access to the Up Main off the sub without a reversal.

najaB · 2 Sep 2019

221129 said:
Nothing south out of Edinburgh for these upcoming works.

I know I'm being lazy by asking rather than checking, but will this be Carlisle diversions or no LNER north of Newcastle?

kje7812 · 2 Sep 2019

najaB said:
I know I'm being lazy by asking rather than checking, but will this be Carlisle diversions or no LNER north of Newcastle?

Via Carlisle according to National rail enquires:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/serv...ntAndFuture.aspx?TravelDate=14/09/2019&TOC=gr

takno · 2 Sep 2019

221129 said:
Afaik there is no access to the Up Main off the sub without a reversal.

It would be entertaining to see everything stagger through Millerhill to avoid the reversal. I think there's still just about a through route

221129 · 2 Sep 2019

najaB said:
I know I'm being lazy by asking rather than checking, but will this be Carlisle diversions or no LNER north of Newcastle?

Via Carlisle

najaB · 2 Sep 2019

kje7812 said:
Via Carlisle according to National rail enquires

221129 said:
Via Carlisle

Thanks both. Now that I'm out of bed and less lazy I've had a look and on RTT they're all timed as HSTs. Yes, I know timing load doesn't actually mean anything but does this mean no drags? Or do Azumas (Azumii?) on diesel get timed as HSTs?

221129 · 2 Sep 2019

najaB said:
Thanks both. Now that I'm out of bed and less lazy I've had a look and on RTT they're all timed as HSTs. Yes, I know timing load doesn't actually mean anything but does this mean no drags? Or do Azumas (Azumii?) on diesel get timed as HSTs?

Still in the old timings.

221129 · 2 Sep 2019

route:oxford said:
That precedent was set back in the olden days though. There were considerably fewer services going through the Haymarket tunnels in the late 1980/early 1990s.

To avoid wasting paths...

Should the Inverness & Aberdeen services be routed round the sub without calling at Haymarket or Edinburgh? Instead calling at Edinburgh Park & Edinburgh Gateway for connecting services?

You mean the ones going via Carlisle?

route:oxford · 2 Sep 2019

221129 said:
You mean the ones going via Carlisle?

Ooh, are they?

I'll have to check that out in the timetable. Be great to take the Chieftain to Carlisle and over the hills to Newcastle.

najaB · 3 Sep 2019

route:oxford said:
I'll have to check that out in the timetable. Be great to take the Chieftain to Carlisle and over the hills to Newcastle.

I've done it a couple of times heading down to London from the Dundee. It's definitely a pleasant journey.

d9009alycidon · 9 Sep 2019

takno said:
It would be entertaining to see everything stagger through Millerhill to avoid the reversal. I think there's still just about a through route

There is but unfortunately the points at the southern end of the yard are manual lever operated, so cannot be used for passenger traffice without being clamped

Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

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