Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

spark001uk said:

What's the goal now then, once all ready will the 9 pairs be able to fulfil the whole half hourly fast service to Pompey via Guildford?

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There aren’t enough to provide the whole service, just the majority of it. It came up in this thread a few months back. (Around post # 3273/4 etc, mixed 442 and 444.)

Ah OK, thanks. As long as its most of them that'll do me. The ride is great imo, as good as any other mk3 shell I've been in. The sound of the EE546's is a bonus too, if only until they're replaced. The fitter I spoke to at Pompey says the first pair are being done now (probably already stated earlier in the thread).

spark001uk said:

Ah OK, thanks. As long as its most of them that'll do me. The ride is great imo, as good as any other mk3 shell I've been in. The sound of the EE546's is a bonus too, if only until they're replaced. The fitter I spoke to at Pompey says the first pair are being done now (probably already stated earlier in the thread).

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I did wonder back in early 2018 if there’d normally only ever be 7 pairs in service. 8 from 9 would still be a fairly high utilisation for a small fleet, and the listed diagrams include one that spends most of the weekday as a spare in Clapham Yard. Then you have the maintenance moves to/from Bournemouth that remove them from the Portsmouth route early and late in the day..

The full 442 Monday to Friday diagrams when all are available is as follows:

Monday to Friday
5B92 0511 Bournemouth Depot to Southampton Airport Parkway 0648
1B92 0651 Southampton Airport Parkway to London Waterloo 0801
1P19 0830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1008
1P34 1045 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1223
1P37 1300 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1435
1P52 1515 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1653
1P55 1730 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1909
5P05 1929 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 1939

5B89 0521 Bournemouth Depot to Poole 0530
1B90 0545 Poole to London Waterloo 0746
1P17 0800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0936
1P32 1015 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1151
1P35 1230 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1408
1P50 1445 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1624
1P53 1700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1836
1P68 1915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2051
1B69 2105 London Waterloo to Poole 2329
5B70 2340 Poole to Bournemouth Depot 2349

5P16 0538 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0553
1P16 0615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0754
5Y03 0803 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard 0831
5B85 1810 Clapham Yard to London Waterloo 1829
1B95 1848 London Waterloo to Poole 2108
5B96 2117 Poole to Bournemouth Depot 2126

5P20 0647 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0701
1P20 0714 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0852
1P23 0930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1108
1P38 1145 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1323
1P41 1400 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1534
1P56 1615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1754
1P59 1830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2009
1P74 2045 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2227
1P77 2300 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0035

5G22 0715 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0729
1G22 0745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0928
1P25 1000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1134
1P40 1215 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1352
1P43 1430 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1608
1G60 1715 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1859
1P63 1930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2108
5P64 2133 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 2147

1P12 0512 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0651
1P13 0700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0836
1P28 0915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1054
1P31 1130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1308
1P46 1345 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1523
1P49 1600 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1734
1P62 1745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1929
1P65 2000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2136
5P65 2146 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 2157


I'll post weekend ones separately.

Note, this was the latest information I had some while back, no reason to believe the long term plan has changed but it may well do at the December timetable change.

Saturday and Sunday:

Saturday
5P20 0645 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0658
1P20 0715 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0851
1P23 0930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1108
1P38 1145 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1327
1P41 1400 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1534
1P56 1615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1751
1P59 1830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2008
1P74 2045 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2227
2P77 2315 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0054

5P24 0745 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0758
1P24 0815 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0951
1P27 1030 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1208
1P42 1245 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1427
1P45 1500 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1634
1P60 1715 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1851
1P63 1930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2108
5P68 2126 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 2137

5P26 0817 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0832
1P26 0845 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1023
1P29 1100 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1234
1P44 1345 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1457
1P47 1530 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1708
1P62 1745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1923
1P65 2000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2134
5P65 2145 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 2155

1P18 0645 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0823
1P21 0900 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1034
1P36 1115 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1257
1P39 1330 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1508
1P54 1545 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1723
1P57 1800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1934
1P72 2015 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2151
1P75 2230 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0007
5P75 0014 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 0024

Sunday
5B93 1750 Bournemouth Depot to Poole 1800
1B94 1818 Poole to London Waterloo 2011
1G97 2055 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea 2222
5G97 2239 Portsmouth & Southsea to Fratton Depot 2246

5P30 0909 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0923
1P30 0932 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1114
1P31 1130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1311
1P46 1332 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1514
1P47 1530 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1711
1P62 1732 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1914
1P63 1930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2113
1P78 2132 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2314
1P79 2330 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0109
5P79 0118 Portsmouth Harbour to Fratton Depot 0131

5G94 1655 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth & Southsea 1700
1G94 1726 Portsmouth & Southsea to London Waterloo 1856
1G95 1955 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea 2122
5G95 2139 Portsmouth & Southsea to Fratton Depot 2146
5P12 0003 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth Harbour 0019

5G96 1755 Fratton Depot to Portsmouth & Southsea 1800
1G96 1826 Portsmouth & Southsea to London Waterloo 1956
1B67 2105 London Waterloo to Poole 2333
5B67 2336 Poole to Poole Sidings 2338
5B84 2355 Poole Sidings to Bournemouth Depot 0006

1P22 0732 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0916
1P23 0930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1113
1P38 1132 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1313
1P39 1330 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1511
1P54 1532 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1714
1P55 1730 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1911
1P70 1932 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2114
1P71 2130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2311

Has SWR inherited the rescue 73 from southern/gatex? Or is the rescue plan now another unit?

spark001uk said:

Has SWR inherited the rescue 73 from southern/gatex? Or is the rescue plan now another unit?

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I thought SWR already had a 73, but there’s been no indication it will be pre-positioned as a rescue loco.

spark001uk said:

Has SWR inherited the rescue 73 from southern/gatex? Or is the rescue plan now another unit?

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The SN one gets a lot of use. Especially as it has a contract with the Belmond Pullman to shunt/ organise its stock at BSL.

SWR have a 73 at Bournemouth but it’s not mainline certified. Just used to shunt old SR stock round the depot.

pompeyfan said:

SWR have a 73 at Bournemouth but it’s not mainline certified. Just used to shunt old SR stock round the depot.

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The 73 at Bournemouth is basically a depot pet, it has been used to shunt 442s and 455s (when they visit Bournemouth) around the depot. My understanding is that it has all the equipment to go mainline but it's wheelsets are knackered and require complete replacement.

I'm not sure what the score is with thunderbird locomotives, I've heard everything from a contract with freightliner to absolutely no provision for rescue locomotives at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Monty said:

I'm not sure what the score is with thunderbird locomotives, I've heard everything from a contract with freightliner to absolutely no provision for rescue locomotives at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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It always seems to me that if they (ie both SWR and SWT) didn’t think a dedicated rescue loco was needed for the pre 2019 fleet, then the addition of a few 442s wasn’t likely to change anything...

The idea is that if one sits down, the driver/guard isolate whatever needs isolating and the other unit tows it out the way. No fixing, no rescuing, just limping.

Did 9P52 suffer a COA on the up at Earlsfield today? I was watching it up the line on Traksy from Petersfield onwards and it seemed to come to a halt in the sector just forward of Earlsfield station for a couple of minutes. 3R49(?) caught up with it right behind.

Having said that I was also watching 10.45 ex PMH this morning. It left PMH then jumped straight to PMS after appearing stuck in the sector just outside PMH for a couple of minutes. Not sure why it would jump all the sectors in between, Traksy appeared to be functioning normally at the time

I'm hearing news that 442s have been suspended until further notice
On Facebook attached
Anyone know what's happening?

Suspended by SWR, or Network Rail?

trainmania100 said:

I'm hearing news that 442s have been suspended until further notice
On Facebook attached
Anyone know what's happening?

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The 9Pxx and 9Bxx schedules do appear to have been replaced with 1Pxx and 1Bxx ones for Tuesday, which would appear to support the idea that they will not be 442s.

RichSwitch said:

Suspended by SWR, or Network Rail?

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Not sure, all I've got to go by is that screenshot, apparently the signals changing to danger
If anyone DOES have Facebook, the post is publicly accessible at https://www.facebook.com/groups/400112150361772/permalink/855662774806705/

I had a chat with a fitter on a service last week, they were saying the cause of the fault was indeed being elusive still.
Glad I did a couple of trips now.

There's also a 5Q99 and 5Q98 added to run this Tuesday only, don't know if that's anything to do with ongoing testing or not.

The worst would be, I suppose, if the same fault persists on a retractioned 442. I’m guessing it will be a while before we find that out.

All 442’s suspended due to DDA non-compliance and electro-magnetic interference causing COA’s in front of both the 442’s and other units.

Dren Ahmeti said:

All 442’s suspended due to DDA non-compliance and electro-magnetic interference causing COA’s in front of both the 442’s and other units.

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Know about the EMI, what’s the DDA (assume you mean EA nowadays) issue?

Surely DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) isuses were known about before they were brought back into service ?

winks said:

Surely DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) isuses were known about before they were brought back into service ?

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.
I understand the issue isn’t the units as such it’s getting people on and off.

From what I can see, wheelchair users are not permitted between Portsmouth and Guildford inclusive due to the ramps or the camber of the track. Can the ramp only be used at a certain angle?

I believe they are okay on the mainline, but with a long list of restrictions.

Do you mean DDA or dwell times generally? I’ve tracked quite a few runs on RTT and while there seem to be dwell time issues on some runs others seem to be fine suggesting it is down to familiarity.

pompeyfan said:

From what I can see, wheelchair users are not permitted between Portsmouth and Guildford inclusive due to the ramps or the camber of the track. Can the ramp only be used at a certain angle?

I believe they are okay on the mainline, but with a long list of restrictions.

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Ramps for the disabled; were they used in 442 previous incarnation on the Direct? If so what has change? The schedules only require them to stop at three stations with significant curved platforms Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton & Godalming and I would have thought the issue of camber must be similar for Desiros?

The step distance (height) is greater on a 442 than a 444. More similar to the old slam door stock whereas 444 is lower.

HamworthyGoods said:

.
I understand the issue isn’t the units as such it’s getting people on and off.

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Well, if PRM can get on and off 444/450’s ok then it must be the 442’s at fault.

The Disability Discrimination Act has been replaced by the Equalities Act but I don’t think that will change anything to do with this issue. Sounds as if there is a compatibility issue between the ramp and the train. Quite possibly a further issue with door size and getting a wheelchair through.

On the subject of the 442s being taken out of service, is it because they do or they don't put signals to danger? I read in the following Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10220209602732592&set=p.10220209602732592&type=3&theater

442's withdrawn from service

Signals not changing to danger after they pass.

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Is this true?

-Peter

It’s also worth remembering that SWR have been in the local news in August because of complaints that ramps are not being deployed to enable PRM on and off. Godalming was a specific station of mention. The passengers video clip was of a 444 but you could imagine further issues if a 442.

That said, I’ve always found Pompey direct guards very prompt with ramps etc. So not my experience at all.