Are there any examples where an alternative route is taken if the service is delayed enough?

Sweetjesus · 31 Aug 2019

I was on 15:27 XC service ex Manchester Piccadilly yesterday which was supposed to go through Birmingham via Smethwick Galton Bridge. The service was delayed and it instead diverted via Walsall which I assume was because there was no path available into Birmingham via the usual route.

Which leads me to ask the question:

Is there any other examples where a service, if delayed enough, will take an alternative path. It would be helpful if it can mentioned which stations are missed out (if any) - my example above did not miss out any stations.

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JonathanH · 1 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
I was on 15:27 XC service ex Manchester Piccadilly yesterday which was supposed to go through Birmingham via Smethwick Galton Bridge. The service was delayed due to trespassers and the service was instead diverted via Walsall which I presume was due to missing a path slot into Birmingham via the usual route.

Which leads me to ask the question:

Is there any other examples where a service, if delayed enough, will take an alternative path. It would be helpful if it can mentioned which stations are missed out (if any) - my example above did not miss out any stations.

You mean via Bescot instead of the Stour route which is a pretty common diversion. Going via Walsall - eg Stafford - Rugeley - Walsall would be quite uncommon - XC drivers almost certainly don't sign the Cannock route.

It is very common for Horsham to Peterborough or Peterborough to Horsham services to use the Quarry line between Gatwick and East Croydon when running late, missing out Coulsdon South, Merstham and Redhill - this can make up over ten minutes of delay.

Other examples include the routes west of Reading for long distance services when a route is blocked at short notice.

yorkie · 1 Sep 2019

There must be an almost limitless examples of where a diversionary route would miss out stations.

From York the most common example would be missing out stations between York and Sheffield; there are numerous routes between the two cities and the most direct route avoids either Leeds/Wakefield, or Doncaster.

I once had to get off a train at Darlington as it was going to use the York avoiding line; in hindsight I should have stayed on and got a train back from Doncaster when the station re-opened.

Can you clarify if you are asking for peoples experiences of where trains have missed stations, or what is routinely done, or what is theoretically possible?

JonathanH said:
You mean via Bescot instead of the Stour route which is a pretty common diversion. Going via Walsall - eg Stafford - Rugeley - Walsall would be quite uncommon ...

Agreed; it did not go via Walsall.

martinsh · 1 Sep 2019

The London Midland Euston - Birmingham - Stafford - Stoke - Crewe service is quite often diverted to run Crewe - Stafford directly when late (or even when not late !) missing out Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove and Alsager.

Sweetjesus · 1 Sep 2019

It turns out the line via Smethwick Galton Bridge was blocked instead of XC being late enough to miss out their path into Birmingham New St. Although I'm still curious to see more examples whether train service is delayed or a line is blocked.

JonathanH said:
You mean via Bescot instead of the Stour route which is a pretty common diversion. Going via Walsall - eg Stafford - Rugeley - Walsall would be quite uncommon - XC drivers almost certainly don't sign the Cannock route.

It is very common for Horsham to Peterborough or Peterborough to Horsham services to use the Quarry line between Gatwick and East Croydon when running late, missing out Coulsdon South, Merstham and Redhill - this can make up over ten minutes of delay.

Other examples include the routes west of Reading for long distance services when a route is blocked at short notice.

Yes, I did mean Bescot, I don't know names of lines that very well, which is reason why I used geographic names instead.

Thanks for the Horsham to Peterborough example.

yorkie said:
There must be an almost limitless examples of where a diversionary route would miss out stations.

From York the most common example would be missing out stations between York and Sheffield; there are numerous routes between the two cities and the most direct route avoids either Leeds/Wakefield, or Doncaster.

I once had to get off a train at Darlington as it was going to use the York avoiding line; in hindsight I should have stayed on and got a train back from Doncaster when the station re-opened.

Can you clarify if you are asking for peoples experiences of where trains have missed stations, or what is routinely done, or what is theoretically possible?

Agreed; it did not go via Walsall.

I'm looking for examples for what is routinely done. Thanks for York/Sheffield example.

Sweetjesus · 1 Sep 2019

martinsh said:
The London Midland Euston - Birmingham - Stafford - Stoke - Crewe service is quite often diverted to run Crewe - Stafford directly when late (or even when not late !) missing out Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove and Alsager.

Doesn't LM serve Stone once an hour in each direction? Are passengers at the station forced to wait for another hour if LM service skips that station?

yorkie · 1 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
Doesn't LM serve Stone once an hour in each direction? Are passengers at the station forced to wait for another hour if LM service skips that station?

Yes, West Midlands Trains* operate one train per hour (in each direction) at Stone. And yes, if a train does not call there, the gap in that direction will widen to two hours.

* WMT have replaced London Midland as the operator of the West Midlands franchise, though their TOC code is still LM

martinsh · 1 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
Doesn't LM serve Stone once an hour in each direction? Are passengers at the station forced to wait for another hour if LM service skips that station?

Yes - and they seem to do it at the slightest excuse as well

bramling · 1 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
I was on 15:27 XC service ex Manchester Piccadilly yesterday which was supposed to go through Birmingham via Smethwick Galton Bridge. The service was delayed and it instead diverted via Walsall which I assume was because there was no path available into Birmingham via the usual route.

Which leads me to ask the question:

Is there any other examples where a service, if delayed enough, will take an alternative path. It would be helpful if it can mentioned which stations are missed out (if any) - my example above did not miss out any stations.

Here’s a wild card - the Northern Line. A delayed train booked to run via the City branch may well be diverted via the Charing Cross branch, which with a smart run can potentially recover up to 5 minutes. Depending on how late it was originally this might make the difference of getting it back in the right order, or reducing the lateness enough that with a quick turnaround the next trip will start on time or at least in order.

Rarer diversions are for a late High Barnet service to divert to Mill Hill East, or for a late running Kennington via Charing Cross service to divert to Euston on the City branch.

FQTV · 1 Sep 2019

I have been on a CrossCountry service which was exceptionally diverted via Potefract owing to late running Northbound, although I can’t say whether ther were other potential issues North of Sheffield that contributed to the decision to divert.

Of course, in th ‘bad old days’, I’ve also been diverted on an East Coast Main Line service to end up a bit late at St. Pancras. That was in the dreadful old state-controlled, entrepreneurially-stifled days of public sector by-the-book, union-gripped suffocating control, though.

Mintona · 1 Sep 2019

Fast trains from Bromley South to London Victoria are able to use either the main lines (via Beckenhan Jn) or Catford loop lines (via Catford) with no questions asked.

J-P_L · 1 Sep 2019

When there’s disruption on the North Transpennine route there’s a few diversion routes taken (depending on crew and route knowledge).

Dinsdale: diversion between Thornaby and Northallerton (branches off at Eaglescliffe and reverses at Darlington and down ECML) avoiding Yarm.

Boroughbridge: diversion between Longlands Jct and Northallerton East Jct then heading to Yarm avoiding Northallerton station (Middlesbrough Services).

Methley: between York and Leeds, branches off at Church Fenton and runs through Woodlesford and Castleford rather than through Miklefield

Normanton: between Leeds and Huddersfield avoiding Dewsbury, running through Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate and joining back at Thornhill LNW Jct

Calder Valley: running through Hebden Bridge and picking up normal route at Manchester Victoria. Can be used to avoid Huddersfield, or call at Huddersfield using Bradley Jct and Bradley Wood Jct.

Salford: avoiding Orsdall Chord between Manchester Victoria and Manchester Oxford Road. Reversing at Salford Crescent.

Cheshire Lines: between Liverpool and Manchester running through Warrington Central avoiding Lea Green and Newton Le Willows (tend to divert through Manchester Piccadilly avoiding Manchester Victoria if running this route)

Guide Bridge: diversion of Airport/Liverpool services between Stalybridge and Manchester Piccadilly avoiding Manchester Victoria and Manchester Oxford Road (but can call MCO if crossing the throat at Picc)

High Level Bridge: alternative route out of or into Newcastle Station using High Level Bridge instead of King Edwards Bridge.

Phillips Park: between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, avoiding running through Ashton under Lyne and passing through Guide Bridge towards Stalybridge

jimm · 1 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
I was on 15:27 XC service ex Manchester Piccadilly yesterday which was supposed to go through Birmingham via Smethwick Galton Bridge. The service was delayed and it instead diverted via Walsall which I assume was because there was no path available into Birmingham via the usual route.

Which leads me to ask the question:

Is there any other examples where a service, if delayed enough, will take an alternative path. It would be helpful if it can mentioned which stations are missed out (if any) - my example above did not miss out any stations.

If there are problems at Oxford/on the Cotswold Line - or a train has been badly delayed leaving London or Hereford and will hamper the paths of other services on single-line sections of the Cotswold Line - services between Worcester and London are sometimes diverted to run non-stop between Reading and Worcester via Swindon, Stroud and Cheltenham.

These miss out stops at Oxford and various stations between there and Worcester Shrub Hill, depending on the calling pattern of the service in question, but some diverted trains have been known to make a special stop at Didcot Parkway to allow Oxford passengers to change trains there, if this can be done without delaying other services.

eastwestdivide · 1 Sep 2019

I've been on a late-running Transpennine between Doncaster and Sheffield which went via Thrybergh instead of Swinton to overtake a service that was stopping at Swinton.

ExRes · 1 Sep 2019

On a number of occasions I caught a Thameslink service south, particularly in the evening crush hour, that arrived at Blackfriars to the wonderful announcement that we would be running via Elephant & Castle etc and not London Bridge, the train would then lose half of its inmates allowing the rest of us a decent and humane journey home, oh joy .....

Llandudno · 1 Sep 2019

Norwich - Liverpool trains sometimes omit Sheffield and operate via Dore Curve to make up time.

RailWonderer · 1 Sep 2019

LM/LNR trains south of Rugby to Euston can skip the Northampton loop if delayed too far. It probably happens more now the services often start from Liverpool/Rugeley.

Ianno87 · 1 Sep 2019

Virgin Euston-Birmingham-Scotland operate via the Trent Valley instead of Birmingham to make up time.

Llandudno said:
Norwich - Liverpool trains sometimes omit Sheffield and operate via Dore Curve to make up time.

And Ely via the West Curve.

mm333 · 1 Sep 2019

J-P_L said:
Calder Valley: running through Hebden Bridge and picking up normal route at Manchester Victoria. Can be used to avoid Huddersfield, or call at Huddersfield using Bradley Jct and Bradley Wood Jct

Late-running Northern services between Hebden Bridge and Leeds via Bradford Interchange can be re-routed to go non-stop via Dewsbury and Brighouse, with the first/last stop being Hebden or Sowerby Bridge.

Eccles1983 · 1 Sep 2019

Anything headed from Manchester to Wigan can take 3 alternative routes.

Via Chat moss and Parkside Junction
Via Atherton line.
Via Bolton.

Regularly used if one of the lines goes kaput.

AM9 · 1 Sep 2019

I think I remember hearing that delayed Thumpers going from Portsmouth Harbour to Romsey via Southampton have been sent there via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford, (a net saving of 9 stations as there was no Hedge End station in those days).

vlad · 1 Sep 2019

This doesn't have an obvious impact - but XC trains booked via Camp Hill (in Birmingham) will often run via Bournville if late. It confuses the platform indicators at Birmingham New Street somewhat (I've seen a train described as "delayed" actually entering the station!).

Dren Ahmeti · 2 Sep 2019

Late-running XC’s will sometimes take the Reading West Curve in order to make up 15-30 minutes of delay.
Not all drivers sign it though!

bunnahabhain · 2 Sep 2019

Llandudno said:
Norwich - Liverpool trains sometimes omit Sheffield and operate via Dore Curve to make up time.

Also Ely West Curve to avoid Ely, saving about 10-15minutes. I've also known some trains run fast via the Chat Moss route when heavily delayed going to or from Liverpool as that can also save 10-15mins if you get a good run.

PHILIPE · 2 Sep 2019

Often happens on the Cardiff Valley Lines if there is a problem or congestion which sees trains between Radyr and Cardiff Central and vice versa that should run via Llandaf diverted via the City Line.

VT 390 · 2 Sep 2019

vlad said:
This doesn't have an obvious impact - but XC trains booked via Camp Hill (in Birmingham) will often run via Bournville if late. It confuses the platform indicators at Birmingham New Street somewhat (I've seen a train described as "delayed" actually entering the station!).

How does this save much time as won't going via Bournville mean it would likely get later as it has the 10 minute cross city stopping service as well as having to reverse at New Street?

brompton rail · 2 Sep 2019

Between Sheffield and Derby diversions via “The Old Road” (Beighton / Staveley) between Sheffield and Chesterfield are not uncommon ( some even scheduled for route retention), and via Erewash Valley (Langley Mill & Spondon). Usual causes include broken down trains, landslips etc. Both diversions add time to the journey.

Class 170101 · 2 Sep 2019

Cheshunt and Liverpool Street:-
Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale as diversions for each other
Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale
Via Stratford instead of Hackney Downs

vlad · 2 Sep 2019

VT 390 said:
How does this save much time as won't going via Bournville mean it would likely get later as it has the 10 minute cross city stopping service as well as having to reverse at New Street?

Your guess is as good as mine!

I suppose heading via Bournville is the lesser of two evils when compared to threading its way through St Andrews and Grand Jcns.

RichJF · 2 Sep 2019

ExRes said:
On a number of occasions I caught a Thameslink service south, particularly in the evening crush hour, that arrived at Blackfriars to the wonderful announcement that we would be running via Elephant & Castle etc and not London Bridge, the train would then lose half of its inmates allowing the rest of us a decent and humane journey home, oh joy .....

This has happened a handful of times on Southern too in times of major disruption. If a driver is driving the incoming service or there's a driver nearby who signs the West Norwood route then the train can be diverted that way and get to Victoria this way round.
I've been on the platform at East Croydon and twice saw this in my London commuting days.

Are there any examples where an alternative route is taken if the service is delayed enough?

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