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East Midlands Parkway-Airport Bus Service to End
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duffield
Established Member
Of course, it may not be such a white elephant in the future. When Ratcliffe power station closes (assuming it's not converted to biomass) there could be a large housing development right next to the railway station.
Martin222002
Member
What is often forgotten is that East Midlands Parkway was never intended to serve East Midlands Airport. It was built to serve as a parkway station for the surrounding East Midlands area, south Derbyshire, south Nottinghamshire & north Leicestershire, to draw car traffic heading south on the M1, with access from junction 24. This was something that Midland Mainline had made an effort to attract during its lifespan.
If it was for connecting with the Airport you'd have thought the Airport wouldn't be pricing out the rail link.
That's interesting; East Midlands Parkway opened 14 months after the Midland Mainline franchise ended....
Well I would hope not. Like you say, it's fairly busy and it also serves other places besides the airport so I doubt the margins are so tight that a £3 charge would sink it....unless Trent Barton refuse to pay on principle.
A lot of shift workers in Castle Donnington use the Sky link and it would leave a lot of people up the creek if it went.
A lot of shift workers in Castle Donnington use the Sky link and it would leave a lot of people up the creek if it went.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
EMA have been supportive of bus services in the past and the bus connections seem pretty good for an airport of its size, especially considering its catchment is spread across three cities in three different direaction plus numerous smaller places. So hopefully they aren't changing their policy towards buses, they just regard the shuttle as more of a taxi.
The Skylink buses are in partnership with the airport so are likely to be unaffected. That is part of the reason the Airport aren't bothered about Parkway - Nottingham, Derby, Leicester, Loughborough, Sawley etc all have regular high quality 24/7 bus services to EMA.
Glenn1969
Established Member
On the Parkway Station page's Area Map it says get a taxi to the Airport and the only local bus listed is two hourly service 865 from Clifton for NET to Normanton on Soar via Radcliffe and Parkway
NoOnesFool
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Not sure what calling patterns were like when EMD was proposed but given that Beeston, Long Eaton and Loughborough all have regular direct services to London, a Parkway station for the surrounding areas seems rather pointless. The station has seen a steady flow of passengers thanks to Megabus, but now that Megabus and the TOC no longer have the same parent company for owners, naturally the megabus connections are in jeapordy.
Andrew1395
Member
My daughter spent three years at the Sutton Bonnington Campus of Nottingham university. That had a direct bus link to Loughborough station but nothing to East Midlands Parkway. I understand that Campus is due to triple the number of students over the next decade. There is plenty of potential non driver/M1 traffic to capture if someone has a desire to do so. Also presumably with the future closure of the power station, its footprint has the potential to be a new residential development.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think the intention was to tap some of the car-based demand from the fairly affluent clientele in the southern edges of Nottingham and surrounding villages, who tend to drive to Grantham for London because it's fairly easy to get to and the trains are quicker. Nottingham isn't great to drive into from the south at busy times although Derby is probably easier. Beeston's London service is the poorest of anywhere on the core MML routes with one slow train per hour, and the barrier of the Trent makes road access to there and to Long Eaton from the target market rather difficult.
However this road access issue also cuts Parkway off from the built-up area a mile or two to the north, and much of the rural catchment could probably drive into Loughborough just as easily (where the station is right on the A60 on the edge of town). Redevelopment of the power station site might provide some market, but not really enough for an Intercity station unless wider development is allowed in an area that is green belt or flood plain or both.
If Rushcliffe council had been more positive on this they might have got the HS2 station put next to the Parkway, which would have allowed connecting trains into all three cities without having to run shuttles or lengthen other journeys. As it is Toton, if it happens, will kill the remaining long-distance market from Parkway stone dead.
Glenn1969
Established Member
The 865 timetable says that bus serves Sutton Bonnington and is timed at the Agricultural College. Not sure where that is in relation to the Uni campus though
Failed Unit
Established Member
Interesting the airport charged a premium for buses using it.
The charge for cars to discourage their use, congestion and environmental reasons (I don’t believe that either)
They then charge a fortune for the alternative so it is unviable. So they can continue to make a fortune out of the drop and go crowd.
I did use the bus. It was normally only single figure useage. Clearly the airport would rather people without cars use Luton or Birmingham.
The charge for cars to discourage their use, congestion and environmental reasons (I don’t believe that either)
They then charge a fortune for the alternative so it is unviable. So they can continue to make a fortune out of the drop and go crowd.
I did use the bus. It was normally only single figure useage. Clearly the airport would rather people without cars use Luton or Birmingham.
Qwerty133
Established Member
I have been told by an EMT manager that EMD has more first-class passengers than standard class passengers, which they presume is due to the cheaper parking than Nottingham encouraging business users, so while the usage figures are relatively low for its service level in terms of revenue it actually outperforms some of the other stations on the MML.
WesternLancer
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Seem to recall that it was put forward during the Prescott era when such p-way stations were planned in other locations near M ways (one near Doncaster?) - but the actual delivery of the station took and age - think planning stuff from local district council did not help - by which time franchisee had changed I think.
I've always thought car park charges there make use of it for local services into cities totally unrealistic (you may as well keep driving into the city/town rather than park and use the train) but the economics of it for london passengers ref car park fee would be different.
Like many such stations the incentives are not aligned so as to get people out of the very many cars that pass right close by, when they potentially could be, one would think.
If one of the bus services that served EMA swung into the station forecourt that would provide people on that bus route with better rail access, but that would slow the bus for other and also require the level of planned transport integration that rarely exists in UK...
I've always thought car park charges there make use of it for local services into cities totally unrealistic (you may as well keep driving into the city/town rather than park and use the train) but the economics of it for london passengers ref car park fee would be different.
Like many such stations the incentives are not aligned so as to get people out of the very many cars that pass right close by, when they potentially could be, one would think.
If one of the bus services that served EMA swung into the station forecourt that would provide people on that bus route with better rail access, but that would slow the bus for other and also require the level of planned transport integration that rarely exists in UK...
thenorthern
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It was never going to work the East Midlands is a very car dependent region.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
It was never intended for P&R into local cities - no more than 2TPH, some on a very irregular interval, isn't going to attract passengers for journeys of 10-15min. For Nottingham it's far better to drive along the now-dualled A453 to the tram P&R at Clifton.
WesternLancer
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Yes, but it has the potential to act for local use, if a co-ordinated timetabling and rolling stock plan had been part of the concept. And at the time the A453 was stillfar off dualling and the tram touch and go if it were to be confirmed. But of course in practice you are quite correct. Train frequencies and parking charges put one off.
The tram is of course a v slow option from that P&R compared to train from further out. But obv a lot of people do that, as you say. Frequency must help a lot with that.
DelW
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It was originally intended that construction would start in summer 2001 and that it would be completed in summer 2002. I did the construction programme for my then employer's tender for the station construction, and we didn't consider that it could be built within the client's expected timescale (40 weeks on site). My completion date was October 2002 and I think we'd have struggled to achieve that... By the time the re-tender came out we were no longer doing railway work.
I think that a lot of the delay came from issues with access to the up side of the tracks via land belonging to the power station (owned by Powergen at that time). We identified in our tender that we believed this was essential for construction of the up slow platform.
You're never going to plan the entire Midland Main Line timetable around nice even intervals at East Midlands Hub. Journey times and intervals to London from across the route are always going to take precedence.
WesternLancer
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Yes, point taken. Of course the 3 east mids cities and their related travel areas are wholly without a proper transport strategy for the region, hence the car dependency mentioned up thread. Presume this is lack of political will, influence, and provision of relevant funds.
Conscious that we are getting off topic!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
And you can't put lots of Parkway shuttles into Nottingham or Derby between the existing services, because there just isn't the capacity. Frequency trumps speed for that type of P&R service - people aren't going to risk a small traffic delay making them even 30min late if they miss the train.
Andrew1395
Member
That is the university campus. Must have changed since 2012, which is a good thing.
Airports up and down the country have changed their business models to generating their profits from parking nearly every single one has upped their drop off charges this year (except Heathrow and Gatwick) and many have spent huge sums of money building new car parks and facilities ever further from the terminals but on a pay to drop off model. Some provide a free drop off further away but this has been a huge success as people have accepted it and pay up.
east Midlands has gone from £1 to £3 so now that all the cars are paying it will be the buses next they already get nearly £1 million a year from their PH "partner" but nothing from the buses so clearly they want to get money off them as well.
I suspect that someone else will set up a service in partnership with the airport with probably £1 or £2 added onto the fare which will go to the airport
Airports have to keep their charges to the airlines very competitive as there is far more slots and gate space available away from Heathrow and Gatwick so the airlines have the upper hand in negotiations because there is always another airport wants their trade. So the onus of paying the airports costs and profits is falling on the people actually using the airports
east Midlands has gone from £1 to £3 so now that all the cars are paying it will be the buses next they already get nearly £1 million a year from their PH "partner" but nothing from the buses so clearly they want to get money off them as well.
I suspect that someone else will set up a service in partnership with the airport with probably £1 or £2 added onto the fare which will go to the airport
Airports have to keep their charges to the airlines very competitive as there is far more slots and gate space available away from Heathrow and Gatwick so the airlines have the upper hand in negotiations because there is always another airport wants their trade. So the onus of paying the airports costs and profits is falling on the people actually using the airports
edwin_m
Veteran Member
There is a Skylink bus from Leicester up to every 20min (which continues as the Derby service), so not much point in people using the train. Also I believe EMR is removing the hourly call at Luton Airport Parkway by a Leicester/Nottingham train when the timetable changes for the Corby electrics.
Scotty
Member
When I use East Midlands Airport next month, I'll get the train to Long Eaton and the Skylink from there (stops at the station).
edwin_m
Veteran Member
You can also use the Skylink Express from Nottingham which takes the quick route via the A453 and no longer wastes the benefit of doing so by trundling through Clifton estate. Assuming you're travelling from Skegness that saves one change of train and may be quicker overall.
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