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Heartbroken mum says her daughter died after 'nobody liked her social media status'

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najaB

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From The Scotsman:
A mum has called for social media to be banned for under-16s after her teenage daughter took her own life when nobody liked her status.

Ruby Seal, 15, would spend her evenings and weekends attached to her smartphone switching between her different social media profiles to post pictures.
In a bid to stop her, mum Julie switched of their home WiFi - but Ruby would use 4G instead and racked up data bills of £200 per month.

In the months leading up to her death the schoolgirl would share cryptic statuses and messages to her friends asking 'If this was my last day what would I do?' and memes claiming she was a "disappointment".
I've my own thoughts on this but thought I'd invite comment to see if I'm out of touch with modern reality.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Banning social media for under 16s would be a ludicrous thing to do. Social media has significant benefits as well as downsides - one example from a personal perspective is that it actually eases socialisation for those who can get nervous doing it all in person (including for organising stuff).

What is needed is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement to the UK's mental health services for both children and adults. The NHS is good at fixing broken things, but we don't do anything like enough to deal with mental illness, and large numbers of young people are dying as a result. Not even near.
 

J-2739

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It couldn't have just been the social media, could it? Something else must have been going on; maybe this pushed her in the end?
 

Ianno87

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Banning social media for under 16s would be a ludicrous thing to do. Social media has significant benefits as well as downsides - one example from a personal perspective is that it actually eases socialisation for those who can get nervous doing it all in person (including for organising stuff).

What is needed is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement to the UK's mental health services for both children and adults. The NHS is good at fixing broken things, but we don't do anything like enough to deal with mental illness, and large numbers of young people are dying as a result. Not even near.

And education about social media as part of the school curriculum. How to use it, what it does and does not mean; 'likes' are not the be-all and end-all; and when to draw the line/when reality needs to start again.
 

Bletchleyite

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And education about social media as part of the school curriculum. How to use it, what it does and does not mean; 'likes' are not the be-all and end-all; and when to draw the line/when reality needs to start again.

Agreed, yes, bring education up to date (but that's a wider debate - for instance we need to stop teaching learning of facts by rote other than things like basic mathematics and instead be teaching how to research and critically evaluate even from a very early age). Critical thinking could of course include what "likes" mean.

I'd probably add my general view that legislation or similar should pretty much never be driven by the victim of something nor by their families etc, as they are usually not objective in their views. An incident should prompt an impartial review in which their views are a valid input, but wider research is needed first. This is why I dislike the "X's Law" approach to things the US seems to love.
 

NoMorePacers

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Banning social media for under 16s would be a ludicrous thing to do. Social media has significant benefits as well as downsides - one example from a personal perspective is that it actually eases socialisation for those who can get nervous doing it all in person (including for organising stuff).

What is needed is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement to the UK's mental health services for both children and adults. The NHS is good at fixing broken things, but we don't do anything like enough to deal with mental illness, and large numbers of young people are dying as a result. Not even near.
I can agree with this on a more personal level - I personally find it much easier to communicate and socialise on the internet and on social media than in real life.
 

Tetchytyke

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Obviously social media isn't why this girl tragically committed suicide any more than Instagram is why another girl recently died of injuries caused by self-harm. It's the symptom not the cause.

Back in my day you got to leave the bullies at the school gate. Now, though, it's constantly there in your pocket, in your phone. I can't imagine the pressure that can cause. People on social media also generally only post the happy things, so it can look as though everyone else is having a wonderful time. If you're feeling lonely and isolated it can tip you over the edge.

I don't think social media companies deal well with inappropriate things posted on their sites- Twitter, I'm looking at you- but then equally they're not here to be the world's censor. Banning it wouldn't change anything. This girl would tragically still have felt so isolated and unhappy that suicide became her choice.
 

najaB

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My thoughts on this is that while it's true that this was in part the result of failing to provide mental health services in the community, overall it's primarily due to a failure in parenting.

Obviously I'm looking at this from outside, but too often I see young adults who don't seem to have learned the lesson while young that sometimes the world is s**t but that the bad is balanced by good, and that your self-worth is defined by yourself not by others. Secondly, I really think that a lot of parents don't understand (or seek to understand) how young people use social media - they assume that kids use it the same way that they do, which often isn't the case (or is a hyper-exaggerated version). Lastly, I'm really saddened by "I turned off the WiFi but she used 4-G instead" - this sounds to me like a child who had way too much access to the Internet, too early.
 
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Crossover

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There is, arguably, no easy way to ban social media by age, given that ages aren't verified (or at least weren't). I think Facebook used to have a much higher joining age, but I know of folk who circumvented it by using a different birth year.

It can be very easy to get drawn into social media and agree with others that it can be easier to communicate via written form than in person. That said, I have tried, more recently, communicate more with friends away from social media, be it on the phone or in person (particularly as the written word can be much more easily misinterpreted) - it hasn't worked in every case but it has been nice to be away from the computer or phone for a bit and just concentrate on good conversation
 

lxfe_mxtterz

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Back in my day you got to leave the bullies at the school gate. Now, though, it's constantly there in your pocket, in your phone. I can't imagine the pressure that can cause.
I agree that it must be terrible to experience such a thing, but isn't that the reason why the "block" button exists? Unfortunately however, it seems many people aren't aware of such a feature (or just refuse to use it), and that's the sad thing, because ultimately "cyberbullying" could be, in some instances, the main factor that drives people towards thinking about taking their lives - as you said, it's constantly there in your pocket - and this is demonstrated by the very tragic incident highlighted in this thread. :(
 

najaB

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The reason for not using the block feature: FOMO (Fear of missing out)

For a lot of (young) people the only thing worse that knowing what the bullies are saying is not knowing what they're saying. Which kind of links back to one of the points I tried to make above: this girl didn't have the coping strategies to deal with life outside of social media.
 

Bantamzen

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Obviously social media isn't why this girl tragically committed suicide any more than Instagram is why another girl recently died of injuries caused by self-harm. It's the symptom not the cause.

Indeed, we need better measures to help parents & professionals alike. I've known people who have tragically taken their own lives, and more often than not there have been signs, albeit very subtle ones that someone is collapsing inside. Its so important for people to be able to understand when someone is making a cry for help, and of course how to get them to the help they will need.

Back in my day you got to leave the bullies at the school gate. Now, though, it's constantly there in your pocket, in your phone. I can't imagine the pressure that can cause. People on social media also generally only post the happy things, so it can look as though everyone else is having a wonderful time. If you're feeling lonely and isolated it can tip you over the edge.

As you rightly say, bullies can now reach their victims remotely, directly or indirectly. Even a child's own bedroom may not be considered a safe place for victims of bullies any more. This needs more education on why bullying is wrong, how to spot bullying, how children can safely report bullying, but most of all how to deal with it.

I don't think social media companies deal well with inappropriate things posted on their sites- Twitter, I'm looking at you- but then equally they're not here to be the world's censor. Banning it wouldn't change anything. This girl would tragically still have felt so isolated and unhappy that suicide became her choice.

The very nature of social media means that it is almost impossible to monitor without some form of user regulation. For example the estimated average number of Tweets posted per day is in the region of 500 million, that's around 6,000 per second. Even with the best algorithms to spot inappropriate material you'd struggle to pick up even a fraction without the report Tweet function to highlight problem posts. Then you have to adjudicate each report, some of which could be automated but others would require human intervention. Either way it takes a lot of resource & time to achieve this, and they often still fall way short.

Of course banning it wouldn't help, if one of the big names fell, twenty others would shoot up and take over, perhaps with far less scrupulous checks & measures. That's the nature of the internet now, banning networks doesn't really help, and sometimes it makes things just go deeper and darker. The solution is again education, of both parents and children. For children it is about dealing with social networks the way they were originally meant to be, just another means of communication. They should not be used to add validity to one's own life, a 'Like' or 'ReTweet' is not a sign of social success, indeed there is evidence that many are almost just memory muscle clicks, made without much or any thought to the content. But also teaching children to interact firstly in face-to-face situations, leaving social networks for the times when that isn't as possible (many adults could probably do to learn this too).

For parents its not just about waiting for warning signs, changes in behaviour (never easy as children go through their various stages of life), but about regulating their access, keeping an eye on what they may be viewing and ensuring that they don't have excessive use of mobile contracts, credit cards or other means of silently racking up bills. Its far from an easy balance, and far from an exact science, requiring different children to be taught and dealt with in different ways. But it does require the parents to be more active in their children's internet experience, not just leaving them to it. I am not suggesting this was the situation in this case, but it is too easy for parents to just hand their child a internet connected device and be just happy its keeping them quiet.
 

Tetchytyke

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it is primarily a failure in parenting

Are mental health problems due to poor parenting? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, it depends. But I think it is rather simplistic in the extreme to say someone should have "better coping strategies" and blame the parents for it. It's dangerously close to the fabled "just pull yourself together". If only life were that simple.

it is too easy for parents to just hand their child a internet connected device and be just happy its keeping them quiet

I think people of my age still see the internet as a separate place to reality, when really the internet is now as much part of reality as books or the TV.

As for "handing kids an internet connected device", there was a recent story where a teenager (allegedly- I'm a bit sceptical) got around a tech ban by using her fridge to tweet :lol:
 

najaB

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Are mental health problems due to poor parenting?
Where did I say that they were?
But I think it is rather simplistic in the extreme to say someone should have "better coping strategies" and blame the parents for it.
I disagree. I can't speak to this particular case some I don't know anything more than has been reported, but I do know too many families where the children have never been told "No", and where the parents intervene way too readily. One of my best friends is a teacher and he actually has had parents arguing the grades he's given their children are too low.
 

najaB

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Unless I've misunderstood your point, you said it in the bit I quoted?
Ah, there's a word missing. It should have been:
My thoughts on this are that while it's true that this was the result of failing to provide mental health services in the community...
The "it" in "it's primarily a failure in parenting" wasn't referring to mental health issues specifically, but all the circumstances that lead up to the young lady taking her life.

Post edited to make it clearer.
 

Bantamzen

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I think people of my age still see the internet as a separate place to reality, when really the internet is now as much part of reality as books or the TV.

This is what future generations need to learn, that the internet is as you say not separate from reality, but intertwined with it and that actions on the net can & do have real life consequences. Actually before teaching the kids this, a lot of adults need to get their heads around this notion!

As for "handing kids an internet connected device", there was a recent story where a teenager (allegedly- I'm a bit sceptical) got around a tech ban by using her fridge to tweet :lol:

Well I'd call that using their initiative!! :D

Seriously though, there are ways and means that parents can keep tabs on what kids might be doing online. For example, often kids have a favourite family member that they trust to let into at least some of their social networks. In the case of my young niece it is my wife, and so inadvertently my wife can now keep a sharp, but quiet eye on what my niece posts on various social networks. And if anything concerned her, we'd review it and decide on how we could broach it without suddenly seeming like the big, bad, boring adults kids often perceive their parents to be. Its a subtle, but effective way to keep her just a little safer online, and of course to pick up on any signs that her mental health well-being is being tested (which thankfully it isn't).
 

Journeyman

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My daughter has recently missed an entire school year due to illness, which was an incredibly isolating and miserable experience for her.

Social media was her lifeline.
 

Geezertronic

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My daughter has recently missed an entire school year due to illness, which was an incredibly isolating and miserable experience for her.

Social media was her lifeline.

I hope your daughter is doing well.

Personally I think Social Media, if used correctly, is a lifeline to some especially the more socially awkward. Others misuse it and it has shown that some people think that they can say anything behind the "protection" of a keyboard without apparent consequences.
 

Journeyman

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I hope your daughter is doing well.

Thank you - she's back at school now, but far from back to her old self. It's been a difficult road.

Personally I think Social Media, if used correctly, is a lifeline to some especially the more socially awkward. Others misuse it and it has shown that some people think that they can say anything behind the "protection" of a keyboard without apparent consequences.

Wholeheartedly agree. I personally have massively benefitted from meeting a lot of my friends online, after (a) lengthy periods working antisocial hours and (b) a long distance move which took me away from a long-established group of friends.

While the story the OP quoted is an absolute tragedy, and I won't belittle the suffering involved, banning something because some people abuse it isn't the solution at all. Social media may be beset by problems, but before it came along, people were still unhappy, and young people still bullied each other. These are the issues that fundamentally need dealing with.
 

Tetchytyke

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The "it" in "it's primarily a failure in parenting" wasn't referring to mental health issues specifically, but all the circumstances that lead up to the young lady taking her life.

Ah, I see what you mean, although I don't think it is quite that simple. Mental health issues often mean you don't have the resources to cope with things that seem, on the face of it, to be fairly minor. It's not always the parents' fault!
 

Journeyman

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Ah, I see what you mean, although I don't think it is quite that simple. Mental health issues often mean you don't have the resources to cope with things that seem, on the face of it, to be fairly minor. It's not always the parents' fault!

Agreed, it doesn't take much to tip people over the edge. My sister has suffered from devastating mental health problems that went undiagnosed and untreated for years, and it seems to me that a lot of them can be traced back to an unhappy and difficult transition from primary school to secondary school. It caused her a lot of stress that later manifested itself in some pretty horrible ways.
 
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