Tooting horns at Green lights

The_Train · 2 Sep 2019

Peter C said:
Fair point - I apologise.
I stick by my point, however - if someone moves next door to a railway and knows full well that it is a busy line and they don't like a lot of noise, they shouldn't move there and won't get sympathy from me if they do moan.

-Peter

I live next to the WCML, in fact I'm sat on my sofa right now and the boundary fence is no more than 20 metres away. I (and others in the apartment block) accept the noise because we knew it was there when we came to the viewing. The boundary fence and the decent windows do a decent job of keeping some of the sound out but it's still very much audible but no complaints (barring one - see below) from me. In fact I find it harder to sleep on Saturday nights now because of the lack of train noise.

The only time I genuinely feel that NR got it wrong was around 6 weeks ago when they came to remove a tree that was on NR property but very much growing onto our car park. This meant chainsaws and wood cutting machines in operation between midnight and 3am. Even the deepest of sleepers would have struggled to sleep during it and I felt it to be unfair to deprive people of sleep for such a period of time when it could easily have been planned to be done during a Xmas or Bank Holiday shutdown (or even on any Sunday and closing the fast lines for a few hours).

As for the actual point of this thread, I have to say that I've never heard anything more than a 2 tone horn during the night (and I always assume this to be because of members of the orange army being on or near the tracks). There is certainly a difference between the use of horns in the day and then at night, that is clear to see (well hear). Regarding the point of drivers acknowledging the signal, the only time I've seen anything like this is some Pendo drivers giving a toot when they are given the RA signal by platform staff

RailUK Forums

AndyCK · 2 Sep 2019

PudseyBearHST said:
Not any more

Dieseldriver said:
That one got taken out of the rule book a couple of years ago. However, if I am near staff or another train I still tend to do it.

Val3ntine said:
If it’s protecting a level crossing then yes but you’d usually pass the signal stop before just the crossing, and then sound then sound the horn before going at caution checking it remains clear

Many thanks for the info!

Controller1701 · 3 Sep 2019

It used to be the case that certain drivers when the signaller was applying rule 39a would sound a crow to advise said signaller that the speed of the train was under control (very much an unofficial method of working)

Paul

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

The_Train said:
I live next to the WCML, in fact I'm sat on my sofa right now and the boundary fence is no more than 20 metres away. I (and others in the apartment block) accept the noise because we knew it was there when we came to the viewing. The boundary fence and the decent windows do a decent job of keeping some of the sound out but it's still very much audible but no complaints (barring one - see below) from me. In fact I find it harder to sleep on Saturday nights now because of the lack of train noise.

The only time I genuinely feel that NR got it wrong was around 6 weeks ago when they came to remove a tree that was on NR property but very much growing onto our car park. This meant chainsaws and wood cutting machines in operation between midnight and 3am. Even the deepest of sleepers would have struggled to sleep during it and I felt it to be unfair to deprive people of sleep for such a period of time when it could easily have been planned to be done during a Xmas or Bank Holiday shutdown (or even on any Sunday and closing the fast lines for a few hours).

As for the actual point of this thread, I have to say that I've never heard anything more than a 2 tone horn during the night (and I always assume this to be because of members of the orange army being on or near the tracks). There is certainly a difference between the use of horns in the day and then at night, that is clear to see (well hear). Regarding the point of drivers acknowledging the signal, the only time I've seen anything like this is some Pendo drivers giving a toot when they are given the RA signal by platform staff

Exactly - you knew that you were moving next to a busy railway line and you were alright with that - and I agree with you on the tree removal. Midnight is stupid for something like that.

-Peter

DarloRich · 3 Sep 2019

Steve Harris said:
Although the railway has some dispensation in law, making a sweeping statement saying we have been here longer means we can cause a noise nuisance, well, the motorsport venue thought that. 2 courts disagreed.

Agreed. However, as we can see from some of the statements on this thread, what the courts and the law say and what posters think they say or should say is widely different!

EE Andy b1 said:
If you go to look for a new house you go at varying times to get a good idea of all conditions. If you don't like, then don't buy.

but it isnt that simple. There is a responsibility to neighbours and a blanket statement that "we were here first" wont wash.

Peter C said:
Exactly - you knew that you were moving next to a busy railway line and you were alright with that - and I agree with you on the tree removal. Midnight is stupid for something like that.

yeah. because getting access to the track is really, really easy, especially on the WCML.

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

DarloRich said:
yeah. because getting access to the track is really, really easy, especially on the WCML.

I would have thought that Network Rail would be somewhat considerate of those living near the railway and they would try doing it at some time which wasn't midnight. Surely there must have been a time when there were fewer trains going through, or they could have accessed the tree from another way?
The post I was replying to said the tree was on NR property but grew over onto the car park - NR could have easily accessed the parts of the tree over the car park and cut those off when people weren't trying to sleep, even if it meant going back at a later date. I'm not sure you thought your statement through or read the post I responded to.

-Peter

DarloRich · 3 Sep 2019

Edit - pointlessly argumentative so i have changed it.

Peter C said:
I would have thought that Network Rail would be somewhat considerate of those living near the railway and they would try doing it at some time which wasn't midnight. Surely there must have been a time when there were fewer trains going through, or they could have accessed the tree from another way?
The post I was replying to said the tree was on NR property but grew over onto the car park - NR could have easily accessed the parts of the tree over the car park and cut those off when people weren't trying to sleep, even if it meant going back at a later date. I'm not sure you thought your statement through or read the post I responded to.

I don't think you understand how difficult access on the WCML in particular is. Sadly the ideal world many posters here occupy and the real world seldom line up.

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

DarloRich said:
Edit - pointlessly argumentative so i have changed it.

I don't think you understand how difficult access on the WCML in particular is. Sadly the ideal world many posters here occupy and the real world seldom line up.

You still haven't understood what I mean! They could have easily gone to the tree through the car park, and cut the tree back then. Not accessing the WCML.

-Peter

DarloRich · 3 Sep 2019

Peter C said:
You still haven't understood what I mean! They could have easily gone to the tree through the car park, and cut the tree back then. Not accessing the WCML.

i get the point but if the tree is growing FROM the railway to the car park you have to get at the roots (on the railway land) to get the tree out.

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

DarloRich said:
i get the point but if the tree is growing FROM the railway to the car park you have to get at the roots (on the railway land) to get the tree out.

But surely a quick chopping of the branches from the car park side would be alright? We had a tree growing on the other side of our garden fence with a branch hanging over the fence (quite dangerous) and so we chopped it off. It's been years and we haven't had to do it again.

-Peter

DarloRich · 3 Sep 2019

Peter C said:
But surely a quick chopping of the branches from the car park side would be alright? We had a tree growing on the other side of our garden fence with a branch hanging over the fence (quite dangerous) and so we chopped it off. It's been years and we haven't had to do it again.

Clearly it depends on the state of the tree! I assumed, based on experience, that if work is being done the tree it will be coming down. Experience and the fact the quoted poster said the work was to "remove" the tree. OBVIOUSLY if the only work is to remove overhanging branches then you can do that from the other side of the fence, as long as that work can be carried out safely.

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

DarloRich said:
Clearly it depends on the state of the tree! I assumed, based on experience, that if work is being done the tree it will be coming down. Experience and the fact the quoted poster said the work was to "remove" the tree. OBVIOUSLY if the only work is to remove overhanging branches then you can do that from the other side of the fence, as long as that work can be carried out safely.

I didn't know you had experience.
I still stand by my point that working on the tree at midnight isn't the best and NR surely could have found a better time to do it.
Let's get this thread back on track.

-Peter

hwl · 3 Sep 2019

Peter C said:
I didn't know you had experience.
I still stand by my point that working on the tree at midnight isn't the best and NR surely could have found a better time to do it.
Let's get this thread back on track.

-Peter

Darlo Rich is right in that on many routes access is difficult enough and you can't do the amount of vegetation removal required overall on a sunday block for other work every couple of months on even on secondary routes. On OHLE routes the need to remove or trim can be a lot more urgent.
The chain saw gang are probly depolyed to even more trickey location on the daylight BH/Xmas blocks. Everyone always believes they can never be low priority...
The railway also has the requirement to minimise disruption to passengers hence at night when train aren't running on 2 of the WCML tracks is ideal for minimising passenger disruption.
ORR and HSE get bit nervous about tree triming on live railways too.
Depending on which side of the WCML slots not a night might be almost as rare as hens teeth.

Peter C · 3 Sep 2019

hwl said:
Darlo Rich is right in that on many routes access is difficult enough and you can't do the amount of vegetation removal required overall on a sunday block for other work every couple of months on even on secondary routes. On OHLE routes the need to remove or trim can be a lot more urgent.
The chain saw gang are probly depolyed to even more trickey location on the daylight BH/Xmas blocks. Everyone always believes they can never be low priority...
The railway also has the requirement to minimise disruption to passengers hence at night when train aren't running on 2 of the WCML tracks is ideal for minimising passenger disruption.
ORR and HSE get bit nervous about tree triming on live railways too.
Depending on which side of the WCML slots not a night might be almost as rare as hens teeth.

Fair point - thanks for giving more information on the subject.

-Peter

Tooting horns at Green lights

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