Disability Access on Class 800's

Hello all

I was wondering if someone can shed some light on to a query i have about the class 800's, recently my elderly mother was travelling from Reading down to Exeter st.davids on the GWR, she had assistance booked to help her on and off the train at both stations.

Now when she arrived into Exeter, the assistance booked never came to where she was, they were at the other end of the train with the ramp, she got off the train at the carriage where she was sittting for her journey and slipped due to it being wet and fell on her arse!

She's okay before we go any further, but she said to me that the only reason why this happened was that the disabled access for ramps is only on one end of the class 800's in first class, and it got me thinking this can't be right, can it?

I do not want to doubt my mother but i thought all modern trains that have been put into service in the last few years need to have full disabled access at all doors? i.e accessable for wheelchairs and people with walkers and walking sticks.

OverSpeed said:

I do not want to doubt my mother but i thought all modern trains that have been put into service in the last few years need to have full disabled access at all doors? i.e accessable for wheelchairs and people with walkers and walking sticks.

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There is a difference between having access and having a specific space available.

All doors should have ramp access of some description. This allows access to the carriage but nothing more. Disability/wheelchair spaces are different. They will have a call for aid button, better access to the toilet, more space, straps etc.

For the more 'modern' units I drive they tend to load people specifically into the wheelchair/accessible carriage. This also allows level boarding where Harrington Humps are available. What is also good is that having a specific carriage for accessibility means that booked assistance always knows which coach someone is located.

I thought modern stock tends to have ramps with a “tab and slot” securing arrangement which AFAIK only fits the designated doorways.

But arranged passenger assistance isn’t just reserved for those using ramps, it sounds as though station staff made a bad assumption here...

Class 80x trains have pins for a ramp to be deployed at ALL doors. Customers in wheelchairs or mobility scooters (where the angle of incline is critical to safety) may only board into the driving vehicles (subject to interior layout.

Regular travellers will know that the driving vehicles on this class are different heights to the intermediate vehicles. What this means is that the way you mount a ramp is slightly different and the profile of the ramp (angle) varies slightly depending on the platform surface.

At a minimum, the ramp should be able to be deployed and used safely in locations where it is expected wheelchair users may need to board the train, at all stations. In general, this would be true for all doors along the train, however at some “interesting” platforms across the UK rail network, this is not always possible due to platform furniture/infrastructure or the platform height/curvature.

This has been one of my projects for the introduction of one of the many new fleets in the UK (not GWR/Class 80x) and our approach has been:
- Stop the train where it needs to be for the signal.
- Test the ramp at all doors where you could expect to board a wheelchair (remembering to take into account multiple working or reverse formation)
- Assess the area around the ramp (what would happen if the train stopped +/- 2m, is there any platform furniture in the way?)
- Move the stop position, if required, to mitigate any issues that have arisen
- Test intermediate doors to check compatibility.

There have been some cases where we tested and found the ramp was completely incompatible due to issues that wouldn’t show up on gauging data, like platform surface or a sloped platform. In these scenarios where moving along the platform wouldn’t have solved the issue we needed to take a more pragmatic approach (and believe me - some of the stations we call at are abysmal). The solution was to modify the design of the on-train ramp to accommodate more challenging geometry as we felt this would give customers a better experience than having to wait for the “special” station ramp.

Essentially what I’m trying to say is that assuming somebody at GWR did the same as me (which sounds reasonable) then the ramp should work at all stations at nearly all doors, so I’d argue that this instance was simply the platform staff not doing the job properly. The 80x trains have space to store ramps in both the driving vehicles (no idea if GWR have installed two ramps) so there really is no excuse for this. Hope your mum is okay.

Possibly, there were more assistance bookings in different areas of the train and the staff had to be at the other end of the train to assist others too!

Sadly, it probably isn’t the case - it’s more likely that the assistance booking stated the wrong coach!

If passenger assistance gets someone to the correct train to assist me, I’m surprised, the correct carriage - I’m amazed

If it's a 5(10) car the only disabled area is in 1st class, on a 9 car it's at either end, 1st coach L and std coach A

OverSpeed said:

Hello all

I was wondering if someone can shed some light on to a query i have about the class 800's, recently my elderly mother was travelling from Reading down to Exeter st.davids on the GWR, she had assistance booked to help her on and off the train at both stations.

Now when she arrived into Exeter, the assistance booked never came to where she was, they were at the other end of the train with the ramp, she got off the train at the carriage where she was sittting for her journey and slipped due to it being wet and fell on her arse!

She's okay before we go any further, but she said to me that the only reason why this happened was that the disabled access for ramps is only on one end of the class 800's in first class, and it got me thinking this can't be right, can it?

I do not want to doubt my mother but i thought all modern trains that have been put into service in the last few years need to have full disabled access at all doors? i.e accessable for wheelchairs and people with walkers and walking sticks.

Click to expand...

While all doors are identical & technically accessible, the wheelchair spaces are only located adjacent to 1 door /side (5car unit wheelchair spaces in 1st only) or 2 doors /side (9car unit wheelchair spaces in std and first), there aren't wheelchair spaces in other areas hence the ramps being located in those areas.

hwl said:

there aren't wheelchair spaces in other areas hence the ramps being located in those areas.

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The great thing about ramps is that they have carry handles and have been designed to be light enough to whip down the platform as required. Ramps are not just for wheelchairs, and wheelchair spaces are not for somebody who books assistance due to, for example, being partially sighted. Some people in the industry seem to have become a bit disconnected from this.

There really is no excuse for not being there with a ramp to assist if it was booked.

tpjm said:

The great thing about ramps is that they have carry handles and have been designed to be light enough to whip down the platform as required. Ramps are not just for wheelchairs, and wheelchair spaces are not for somebody who books assistance due to, for example, being partially sighted. Some people in the industry seem to have become a bit disconnected from this.

There really is no excuse for not being there with a ramp to assist if it was booked.

Click to expand...

Yep, many in the rail industry would be shocked to find out that less than 1% of those with a disability are wheelchair users.

Indeed. The common perception is always to assume that any disability means a physical disability. Proud to work for a TOC who deliver excellent disability awareness training to ALL new staff as part of the week one corporate induction. Really makes you realise.